LivingMetal said: New Xbox Scorpio Console Will Deliver "Really True 4K," Exec Says Sony's PlayStation 4 Pro came out last week. Across the fence, Microsoft's Project Scorpio console is slated to arrive in holiday 2017. Now, Xbox executive Aaron Greenberg has discussed the upcoming Xbox console, saying it's capable of delivering "really true 4K." "This will really bring the most powerful console you've ever seen," Greenberg said at this weekend's Xbox FanFest in Mexico City. "It will bring these really true 4K, really incredible visual games that we've never seen before on the console." "People who have spent thousands of dollars on a high-end PC are getting that experience. How do we bring that to scale in a console in your living room? That's a big part of what Project Scorpio is about," he added. Microsoft has said that all of its first-party games will run at a native 4K. "Any games we're making that we're launching in the Scorpio time frame, we're making sure they can natively render at 4K," Microsoft Studios GM Shannon Loftis said in September. Microsoft announced Project Scorpio at E3 in June, but the company has not offered much in the way of specifics about the console since then. That may not change soon, as Greenberg said Microsoft is saving a good deal of significant reveals about Project Scorpio for 2017. Earlier this month, Xbox engineering lead Mike Ybarra said Project Scorpio will "of course" support backwards compatibility for Xbox 360 games. The console also plays all Xbox One titles. According to Microsoft, there won't be any Project Scorpio-exclusive games--except for virtual reality titles. Pricing for Project Scorpio has not been announced, but Microsoft has repeatedly referred to it as a "premium" device, so it likely won't be cheap. Sony's PS4 Pro, which launched on November 10, sells for $400. Microsoft has said Project Scorpio is more powerful than Sony's console by a significant margin. http://www.gamespot.com/articles/new-xbox-scorpio-console-will-deliver-really-true-/1100-6445394/

 

Again that phrase "all games releasing in the Scorpio time frame" statement which a lot of people seem to be misinterpretting to mean all 1st party MS games will be native 4K. It's only the ones releasing in the launch period (i.e. holiday 2017) and it does not at all mean that all future MS titles will be in native 4K. Just more cure PR language to talk up the machine when everyone knows it lacks the essential grunt to produce native 4K for those most graphically demanding AAA titles. Sounds like price is going to be above $450 and possibly above $500. As the only device able to deliver VR for Xbox it doesn't particularly bode well for high adoption rates for VR. You can almost get VR for PS4 for what is likely to be the base price of Scorpio alone. I suspect MS doesn't think VR is going to be a significant factor this gen, and that maybe only next gen / next hardware iteration will VR become a major factor. They could be right, it will be int3eresting to see how it plays out.

think-man said: walsufnir said:   So the cycle from ps4p to ps5 will be that short? Good that I chose the base model. I don't think the pro has extended the life of the ps4,  i have no doubt we will be hearing stuff about the ps5 in 2018 given we were already hearing about the ps4(rumours) in 2012.

Oh yes, it doesn't extend the life of the ps4 but still, if you are now a new customer that buys a console for that price which is also advertised as the most powerful console, only to be second class in two years, that is not a good investment, in my opinion.

walsufnir said: think-man said: I don't think the pro has extended the life of the ps4,  i have no doubt we will be hearing stuff about the ps5 in 2018 given we were already hearing about the ps4(rumours) in 2012. Oh yes, it doesn't extend the life of the ps4 but still, if you are now a new customer that buys a console for that price which is also advertised as the most powerful console, only to be second class in two years, that is not a good investment, in my opinion.

Yeah maybe not for them,  for me it was am easy investment,  trade in my launch day ps4 thats had thousands of hours played on it for a new console at a reduced cost.  You never know how long these launch consoles last so that was another reason for trading it in. 

LudicrousSpeed said: Guitarguy said: Lol really really true 4k... It will most likely deliver more native 4K games than the PS4 Pro, but don't pretend the Pro cannot and has not already delivered native 4K AAA games(Fifa 17, The Last of Us Remastered, Skyrim Remastered etc). That's not much of an accomplishment. I mean, look at this thread. There are 22 games, a vast majority of which are indies and last gen ports. Oh, and sports games. The closest thing to a AAA 8th gen title is Shadow of Mordor, and it has dynamic resolution, so really isn't even a native 4k game at all. This isn't meant to troll or bait, it's just simple facts as composed by our own members here. If MS truly has all their own first party efforts in native 4k, then it will by default be a superior 4k machine than the PS4P.

The problem is that they're phrasing it as if there are no native 4k games on PS4 or that all of the games on Scorpio are native 4k, neither of which is true. It is an improvement over the pro but calling itself a true 4k console and in reverse the Pro not one is just disingeniuous. 50% more power isn't really a big enough jump over the Pro.

We will have the first true 4k console next gen.

LivingMetal said: d21lewis said: If the Scorpio is stronger than the Pro, there's absolutely nothing stopping Sony fans from buying one. Rather than feel threatened, feel hopeful. Newer, better hardware options is not a bad thing. And if you don't like the games it offers or whatever, you'll still have other options. Arguing about video games feels like arguing over who watches the best porn, at this point. I don't care what you enjoy. As long as I can get what I enjoy! The term "Microsoft" might not be the best argument when analogizing porn.

Ha!

walsufnir said: think-man said: I don't think the pro has extended the life of the ps4,  i have no doubt we will be hearing stuff about the ps5 in 2018 given we were already hearing about the ps4(rumours) in 2012. Oh yes, it doesn't extend the life of the ps4 but still, if you are now a new customer that buys a console for that price which is also advertised as the most powerful console, only to be second class in two years, that is not a good investment, in my opinion.

Just because rumors start popping in 2018 doesnt mean the PS5 will come out then.

You're delusional if you think PS4 is a 5 year console, PS5 will come in holiday 2019 at the earliest.

I am 100% jumping on the scorpio hype train, I love my PS4 I looked at the PRO but it just makes more sense to wait a little bit longer, see the Scorpio, see if its worth it, and then buy it.

I have a collection of over 100 blue ray movies and want to start collecting UHD discs, so thats one reason, the other is my PC is getting old and games like Forza and Gears are hitting it hard, I won't be able to run them on 4k or even very high settings, if the scorpio delivers a better job then my PC, I am sold.

overall currently I am still buying all third-party games on PC because I can get the best 1080P settings, and highest framerate, the only thing that could turn me off on the scorpio is if the game framerates are too low, or lower then the PS4/Xbox One S

Turkish said: walsufnir said: Oh yes, it doesn't extend the life of the ps4 but still, if you are now a new customer that buys a console for that price which is also advertised as the most powerful console, only to be second class in two years, that is not a good investment, in my opinion. Just because rumors start popping in 2018 doesnt mean the PS5 will come out then. You're delusional if you think PS4 is a 5 year console, PS5 will come in holiday 2019 at the earliest.

Then I don't see why mentioning a PS5 will hurt Scorpio at all.

Turkish said: walsufnir said: Oh yes, it doesn't extend the life of the ps4 but still, if you are now a new customer that buys a console for that price which is also advertised as the most powerful console, only to be second class in two years, that is not a good investment, in my opinion. Just because rumors start popping in 2018 doesnt mean the PS5 will come out then. You're delusional if you think PS4 is a 5 year console, PS5 will come in holiday 2019 at the earliest.

7nm wont be "ready" and cheap until probably mid way through 2019.

It wouldnt be smart to start a new gen, without aiming for makeing a 7nm chip (imo).

 

Also because of shrinkage difficulties this might be the last gen where we see big improvements like this.

Which means Playstation 5 / Xbox Two will have to be built to last a while.

Interesting to see what they plan to do after silicon based chip, and how that ll translate to consoles.

JRPGfan said: Turkish said: Just because rumors start popping in 2018 doesnt mean the PS5 will come out then. You're delusional if you think PS4 is a 5 year console, PS5 will come in holiday 2019 at the earliest. 7nm wont be "ready" and cheap until probably mid way through 2019. It wouldnt be smart to start a new gen, without aiming for makeing a 7nm chip (imo).   Also because of shrinkage difficulties this might be the last gen where we see big improvements like this. Which means Playstation 5 / Xbox Two will have to be built to last a while. Interesting to see what they plan to do after silicon based chip, and how that ll translate to consoles.

7nm will be ready by 2018. TSMC is having designs taped out for 15 customers next year.

"We have expanded our N7 design ecosystem development to include both mobile and high-performance computing, to enable our customers to deliver their first-to-market products. Our N7 adoption is very strong, with customers ranging from mobile GPU, game console, FPGA, network processors and other consumer product applications. We have more than 20 customers in intensive design engagement with us and expect to have 15 customer tape-outs in 2017. The volume production of N7 will start from first half 2018"

http://www.tsmc.com/uploadfile/ir/quarterly/2016/2izbs/E/TSMC%202Q16%20transcript.pdf

So plenty of time for a late 2019 release. Also 16nm is less than 6 months available and the PS4P had a RX480 in it so it doesn't matter whether the technology is new and "not cheap".

The new consoles also don't have to be on a smaller node for there to be a giant leap against current gen. There's plenty of gpu gens between them, hell the leap will be big between the PS4P and Xbox Scorpio(1.8TFLOP) and they're on the same node, just different architecture. Besides 16nm is already that leap from 28nm. With 2.3x the power PS4P exclusive games would make quite the difference with the og PS4.