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Forums - Politics Discussion - Stop voting for "change".

 

How closely do you examine a candidate's policy proposals?

If he makes me feel good,... 11 9.24%
 
I read articles about them. 5 4.20%
 
I read analyses and also ... 81 68.07%
 
I just vote for the funni... 22 18.49%
 
Total:119
fatslob-:O said:
Voting for change is a good thing ...

The people have spoken and they don't like the direction the country is headed in so the establishment must be corrected once more if they fall astray like Clinton ...

Obama and Clinton along with the rest of the democrats should've done a better job of maintaining the confidence in the status quo ...

It's not hard to see why people transferred their stocks from the democrats to someone like Trump ...

Trump is only in office because of political affirmative action, a system that kneecaps California and New York in favor of Wyoming and North Dakota. More people voted for Clinton, and the majority in the Senate is razor thin. Trump does not exactly have a mandate. The silent majority is anything but.

If Trump fails to make Democrats happy, he's likely to find himself in the same position in 2018 as Obama was in 2010: with an opposition-majority Congress that will cock-block him at every step of the way. And then he's going to have problems himself in 2020. Obama at least won the popular vote both types by acceptable margins.

As my RDC at Great Lakes once said,"Stand. The fuck. By."

 



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Azuren said:
Final-Fan said:

We should have, but not for the reason of unthinking change. 

So essentially "Vote for change as long as I agree with it"?

How charming.

You're not paying attention.  I'm saying some people don't distinguish between "different" and "better". 

The OP even says that for the purposes of my argument it doesn't matter whether the policy you truly want is universal health care or repealing Social Security.  I'm not sure how you have missed it other than by willful ignorance. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

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SanAndreasX said:

Trump is only in office because of political affirmative action, a system that kneecaps California and New York in favor of Wyoming and North Dakota. More people voted for Clinton, and the majority in the Senate is razor thin. Trump does not exactly have a mandate. The silent majority is anything but.

If Trump fails to make Democrats happy, he's likely to find himself in the same position in 2018 as Obama was in 2010: with an opposition-majority Congress that will cock-block him at every step of the way. And then he's going to have problems himself in 2020. Obama at least won the popular vote both types by acceptable margins.

If you think the only small states are the reason why Trump won then you're sorely mistaken ... 

Out of the top 10 most populated states he carried Texas, Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, North Carolina and Michigan!  (5 of the biggest swing states that Obama won in the last election! I didn't even think it was possible for him to win Pennsylvania!) 

You don't win the electoral college with just states that have high voting power (Go ask Romney and see how that fared.). Trump's victory can't be undermined one bit when he can actually change voter demographics compared to Romney. 



etking said:
Did you know that Trump wrote a book where he exactly describes what he wants and how to get there? You should not read articles from the dishonest press but make your own picture and use your brain instead.

Trumps ideas are smart and very reasonable, and he could really make the country a better place for everyone. Especially if he succeeds with his Obamacare 2.0 healthcare plans.

#Trumpcare

Final-Fan said:
Azuren said:

So essentially "Vote for change as long as I agree with it"?

How charming.

You're not paying attention.  I'm saying some people don't distinguish between "different" and "better". 

The OP even says that for the purposes of my argument it doesn't matter whether the policy you truly want is universal health care or repealing Social Security.  I'm not sure how you have missed it other than by willful ignorance. 

I'm just pointing out the inherent hypocrisy of saying "don't vote for change" when that was literally 100% of Obama's campaign. But you know, feel free to argue semantics while your core message is a giant double standard. 



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There is no problem voting for change. There is a problem only looking at the POTUS office for change but continue to vote the same people to Congress. The President get the blame and the accolades with how the country goes but there is another 2/3 of the government that has just as big a role as the President. There can and will not be any real change until their is change in all of the branches of government not just the POTUS office.



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fatslob-:O said:
SanAndreasX said:

Trump is only in office because of political affirmative action, a system that kneecaps California and New York in favor of Wyoming and North Dakota. More people voted for Clinton, and the majority in the Senate is razor thin. Trump does not exactly have a mandate. The silent majority is anything but.

If Trump fails to make Democrats happy, he's likely to find himself in the same position in 2018 as Obama was in 2010: with an opposition-majority Congress that will cock-block him at every step of the way. And then he's going to have problems himself in 2020. Obama at least won the popular vote both types by acceptable margins.

If you think the only small states are the reason why Trump won then you're sorely mistaken ... 

Out of the top 10 most populated states he carried Texas, Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, North Carolina and Michigan!  (5 of the biggest swing states that Obama won in the last election! I didn't even think it was possible for him to win Pennsylvania!) 

You don't win the electoral college with just states that have high voting power (Go ask Romney and see how that fared.). Trump's victory can't be undermined one bit when he can actually change voter demographics compared to Romney. 

The fact is that more people still voted for Clinton, so yes, Trump is still an affirmative action candidate with no mandate.

He made grand promises in the Great Lakes states he hasn't a snowball's chance of delivering on by spouting empty jingoism. The manufacturing jobs of 1950 will never return, but the people there won't face that fact.  Neither will coal mining. And manufacturing is less and less labor intensive. Come 2020, if he doesn't deliver, the Dems will be back in the WH with Congressional control to boot.  



Azuren said:
Final-Fan said:

You're not paying attention.  I'm saying some people don't distinguish between "different" and "better". 

The OP even says that for the purposes of my argument it doesn't matter whether the policy you truly want is universal health care or repealing Social Security.  I'm not sure how you have missed it other than by willful ignorance. 

I'm just pointing out the inherent hypocrisy of saying "don't vote for change" when that was literally 100% of Obama's campaign. But you know, feel free to argue semantics while your core message is a giant double standard. 

It was basically both Obama's and Trump's campaign SLOGANS, yes.  If you equate that with the entire campaign, then I don't think there is anything more to discuss.  Obama did have actual policy proposals, you know.  So did Trump. 

And yes, I suppose that telling people they should differentiate between "different" and "better" is actually arguing semantics.  But what do you think my core message was? 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

SanAndreasX said:

The fact is that more people still voted for Clinton, so yes, Trump is still an affirmative action candidate with no mandate.

He made grand promises in the Great Lakes states he hasn't a snowball's chance of delivering on by spouting empty jingoism. The manufacturing jobs of 1950 will never return, but the people there won't face that fact.  Neither will coal mining. And manufacturing is less and less labor intensive. Come 2020, if he doesn't deliver, the Dems will be back in the WH with Congressional control to boot.  

It's too bad popular vote doesn't matter ...  

The downplay from you is all too real for me to enjoy ... 



fatslob-:O said:
SanAndreasX said:

The fact is that more people still voted for Clinton, so yes, Trump is still an affirmative action candidate with no mandate.

He made grand promises in the Great Lakes states he hasn't a snowball's chance of delivering on by spouting empty jingoism. The manufacturing jobs of 1950 will never return, but the people there won't face that fact.  Neither will coal mining. And manufacturing is less and less labor intensive. Come 2020, if he doesn't deliver, the Dems will be back in the WH with Congressional control to boot.  

It's too bad popular vote doesn't matter ...  

The downplay from you is all too real for me to enjoy ... 

It does, though. Easy to unseat him in 2020. And don't forget, it takes 60 senators to pass a law, 66 to repeal. 

Obstruct, obstruct, obstruct. 



SanAndreasX said:
fatslob-:O said:

It's too bad popular vote doesn't matter ...  

The downplay from you is all too real for me to enjoy ... 

It does, though. Easy to unseat him in 2020. And don't forget, it takes 60 senators to pass a law, 66 to repeal. 

Obstruct, obstruct, obstruct. 

 

Modern Republicans are a strong minority, they dig in and obstruct. Democrats have shown themselves to be meek and complicit in aiding conservative legislation. I'll be stunned if the Affordable Care Act isn't repealed by 2018.