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Forums - Nintendo - If Nintendo Switch fails this will be Nintendo last console.

curl-6 said:
Alkibiádēs said:

The PS4 isn't a hybrid console because it can't play games on the go...

And no Vita streaming doesn't count. Having to buy two systems goes against the very idea of a HYBRID CONSOLE.

Nintendo's studio structering is the single most important aspect of the Switch and it's here where its innovativity lies.

Sony is no longer active in the handheld market, they lost out, big time.

Studio structuring is irrelevant to the device itself. It is portable hardware, in a portable form factor.

It's about the games it receives. The Switch will have both home console and handheld experiences. Think of 3D and 2D Zelda games for example. Any hybrid console would have to use portable hardware in a portable form factor. You simply don't understand Nintendo's new game design philosophy for the next generation. It's something entirely new and it abandons everything that defined the DS and Wii era:

- No more forced motion controls.

- No more forced touch screen controls.

- No more dual screen gaming.

- They will abandon the "3D" feature of the 3DS.

- No longer making games for two different systems, but instead one unified platform.

- They abandon the use of optical disks, opting for cartridges instead.

Anyone thinking this is a continuation of the Wii U or that this console is what the Wii U was supposed to be is deluding himself. The Wii U was based around dual screen gaming, a poorly conceived concept, evidenced by the fact that Nintendo struggled to come up with innovative ways of gameplay. The only Nintendo game that makes excellent use of the dual screen is Super Mario Maker. Most games made by Nintendo didn't even require the gamepad to be played. This time Nintendo has a well-thought-out concept (the fusion between their handheld and home console divisions).

What Nintendo is doing is new for them, and that is all that matters. No other hardware company had to split its resources between two entirely different pieces of hardware besides Sony during the PSP and the first years of the Vita. But Sony's investment in handheld gaming was always rather limited. They didn't really make that many first party games themselves for the PSP and PSVITA.



"The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must" - Thoukydides

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Nintendo didn't really have a choice but to go the hybrid route. I said it like a year before the thing was unveiled.

A "traditional" Nintendo console has no place in the modern market unfortunately. They have locked themselves out of that market (which they largely created) by making a lot of stupid mistakes over a period of 20 straight years and that's allowed Sony/MS to basically lock up the modern console audience full stop.

The only way a new Nintendo home-only console would work is if they had an earth shattering gimmick, like a Wiimote, and they don't from the looks of it.

They had to basically merge their sinking console division into their still viable portable division and let the portable aspect be the "hook" of the platform. There was no other choice here.



curl-6 said:
Miyamotoo said:

Its not at all marketing PR, it's clear fact like we saw in Switch video.

Yes, you can use PS3 controller for PSP, but you need to buy separately PS3 controller and you even need to buy separate cable for connecting PSP to TV. But Switch its not just a handheld with ability to connect to TV, again: its built from ground and with main purpose that can act like real home console and like real handheld out of box, OS is built with that purpose, hardware is built with that purpose, controls are are build with those purpose, games are built with those purpose, hybrid, (so it not just handheld that has just option to have just picture on TV like PSP) that's why home console users and handheld users will buy it, you cant say that for PSP. Whole point of Switch is to "switch" between home console mode and handheld mode, it's a hybrid. So saying that Switch is just handheld that can be connected to TV like PSP or Vita is totally wrong, but you keep deny that fact, so I really has nothing to say to you on this matter because you totally denying or ignoring facts, you can continue thinking that Switch is same thing like PSP even reality is totally different.

"Purpose" in the sense you're using it amounts to pretty much just marketing though. PSP was made with the ability to be played on a TV. It just didn't use this feature as the cornerstone of its marketing. What matters is functionality, and PSP has the functionality of being playable both portably and on a TV screen, which is the same core idea as Switch. The only meaningful difference is that Switch does it better, but that's to be expected of a device two generations newer.

Already wrote, but one more last time, PSP is just handheld that has feature to connect to TV, while Switch has all features of home console and gave full home console experience out of box.Yes functionality matter and actually its main point not PR, and Switch has full home console functionality, full home console functionality is core idea for Switch same like its full handheld functionality, and Nintendo made Switch-hybrid with that on mind, every aspect of Switch is made with that on mind, home console and handheld in one, with all features of home console and all features of handheld, not just "can conect to TV". Because of that functionality nobody really bought PSP to use it like home console but Switch will bouth buy home consoles and handhelds users. Also beacuse Switch is home console in same time, it will have full console experience versions of games offcourse (new 3D Mario, Zelda BotW, new Retros game, Skyrim, Just Dance, NBA 2k....), did PSP or even Vita has games like that, of course not, ask your self why than Switch is getting games like Skyrim, Just Dance, NBA 2K...



Alkibiádēs said:
curl-6 said:

Studio structuring is irrelevant to the device itself. It is portable hardware, in a portable form factor.

It's about the games it receives. The Switch will have both home console and handheld experiences. Think of 3D and 2D Zelda games for example. Any hybrid console would have to use portable hardware in a portable form factor. You simply don't understand Nintendo's new game design philosophy for the next generation. It's something entirely new and it abandons everything that defined the DS and Wii era:

- No more forced motion controls.

- No more forced touch screen controls.

- No more dual screen gaming.

- They will abandon the "3D" feature of the 3DS.

- No longer making games for two different systems, but instead one unified platform.

- They abandon the use of optical disks, opting for cartridges instead.

Anyone thinking this is a continuation of the Wii U or that this console is what the Wii U was supposed to be is deluding himself. The Wii U was based around dual screen gaming, a poorly conceived concept, evidenced by the fact that Nintendo struggled to come up with innovative ways of gameplay. The only Nintendo game that makes excellent use of the dual screen is Super Mario Maker. Most games made by Nintendo didn't even require the gamepad to be played. This time Nintendo has a well-thought-out concept (the fusion between their handheld and home console divisions).

What Nintendo is doing is new for them, and that is all that matters. No other hardware company had to split its resources between two entirely different pieces of hardware besides Sony during the PSP and the first years of the Vita. But Sony's investment in handheld gaming was always rather limited. They didn't really make that many first party games themselves for the PSP and PSVITA.

These days, there's really no meaningful separation between "console" and "handheld" games. Mario Kart 7 and 8, Mario 3D Land and 3D World, Smash Bros Wii U/3DS; portables have gotten to the point where they can pretty much do all the same kind of games as consoles, just with less graphical oomph.

Switch is an evolution, not a revolution. It takes what the PSP and Vita did, and brings it to the next level. That's not a knock against it; I've said it before and I'll say it again, I think Switch is a good idea and that it will do well if they execute it right. It's just not a brand new innovation.

 

Miyamotoo said:
curl-6 said:

"Purpose" in the sense you're using it amounts to pretty much just marketing though. PSP was made with the ability to be played on a TV. It just didn't use this feature as the cornerstone of its marketing. What matters is functionality, and PSP has the functionality of being playable both portably and on a TV screen, which is the same core idea as Switch. The only meaningful difference is that Switch does it better, but that's to be expected of a device two generations newer.

Already wrote, but one more last time, PSP is just handheld that has feature to connect to TV, while Switch has all features of home console and gave full home console experience out of box.Yes functionality matter and actually its main point not PR, and Switch has full home console functionality, full home console functionality is core idea for Switch same like its full handheld functionality, and Nintendo made Switch-hybrid with that on mind, every aspect of Switch is made with that on mind, home console and handheld in one, with all features of home console and all features of handheld, not just "can conect to TV". Because of that functionality nobody really bought PSP to use it like home console but Switch will bouth buy home consoles and handhelds users. Also beacuse Switch is home console in same time, it will have full console experience versions of games offcourse (new 3D Mario, Zelda BotW, new Retros game, Skyrim, Just Dance, NBA 2k....), did PSP or even Vita has games like that, of course not, ask your self why than Switch is getting games like Skyrim, Just Dance, NBA 2K...

Actually PSP and Vita got plenty of "console" games, like God of War, Uncharted, Need for Speed Most Wanted, Call of Duty, Killzone, Borderlands 2, Rayman Legends, Gran Turismo, Littlebigplanet, FIFA, etc. Even 3DS got a "new 3D Mario". 



curl-6 said:
Alkibiádēs said:

It's about the games it receives. The Switch will have both home console and handheld experiences. Think of 3D and 2D Zelda games for example. Any hybrid console would have to use portable hardware in a portable form factor. You simply don't understand Nintendo's new game design philosophy for the next generation. It's something entirely new and it abandons everything that defined the DS and Wii era:

- No more forced motion controls.

- No more forced touch screen controls.

- No more dual screen gaming.

- They will abandon the "3D" feature of the 3DS.

- No longer making games for two different systems, but instead one unified platform.

- They abandon the use of optical disks, opting for cartridges instead.

Anyone thinking this is a continuation of the Wii U or that this console is what the Wii U was supposed to be is deluding himself. The Wii U was based around dual screen gaming, a poorly conceived concept, evidenced by the fact that Nintendo struggled to come up with innovative ways of gameplay. The only Nintendo game that makes excellent use of the dual screen is Super Mario Maker. Most games made by Nintendo didn't even require the gamepad to be played. This time Nintendo has a well-thought-out concept (the fusion between their handheld and home console divisions).

What Nintendo is doing is new for them, and that is all that matters. No other hardware company had to split its resources between two entirely different pieces of hardware besides Sony during the PSP and the first years of the Vita. But Sony's investment in handheld gaming was always rather limited. They didn't really make that many first party games themselves for the PSP and PSVITA.

These days, there's really no meaningful separation between "console" and "handheld" games. Mario Kart 7 and 8, Mario 3D Land and 3D World, Smash Bros Wii U/3DS; portables have gotten to the point where they can pretty much do all the same kind of games as consoles, just with less graphical oomph.

Switch is an evolution, not a revolution. It takes what the PSP and Vita did, and brings it to the next level. That's not a knock against it; I've said it before and I'll say it again, I think Switch is a good idea and that it will do well if they execute it right. It's just not a brand new innovation.

 

Miyamotoo said:

Already wrote, but one more last time, PSP is just handheld that has feature to connect to TV, while Switch has all features of home console and gave full home console experience out of box.Yes functionality matter and actually its main point not PR, and Switch has full home console functionality, full home console functionality is core idea for Switch same like its full handheld functionality, and Nintendo made Switch-hybrid with that on mind, every aspect of Switch is made with that on mind, home console and handheld in one, with all features of home console and all features of handheld, not just "can conect to TV". Because of that functionality nobody really bought PSP to use it like home console but Switch will bouth buy home consoles and handhelds users. Also beacuse Switch is home console in same time, it will have full console experience versions of games offcourse (new 3D Mario, Zelda BotW, new Retros game, Skyrim, Just Dance, NBA 2k....), did PSP or even Vita has games like that, of course not, ask your self why than Switch is getting games like Skyrim, Just Dance, NBA 2K...

Actually PSP and Vita got plenty of "console" games, like God of War, Uncharted, Need for Speed Most Wanted, Call of Duty, Killzone, Borderlands 2, Rayman Legends, Gran Turismo, Littlebigplanet, FIFA, etc. Even 3DS got a "new 3D Mario". 

Except the Vita and PSP didn't do anything like it...

And there's a big difference between Super Mario 3D Land and 3D World. I don't like 3D Land, but I love 3D world for instance.

How many Nintendo home consoles received Pokémon mainline games? Or 2D Zelda and Metroid games (after the introduction of 3D gaming)? Nintendo has always had specific handheld and home console titles.

None of those games you mentioned got the same attention as the home console versions btw. God of War for PSP was made by a third party studio, not Sony Santa Monica. The same goes for Uncharted. I doubt the Call of Duty games for handhelds received the same attention as their home console versions either. Rayman Legends and Littlebigplanet are 2D games, so porting that was easy.

Not a single developer from the West would ever make a game as ambitious as let's say Breath of the Wild on handhelds... Nintendo will do that.



"The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must" - Thoukydides

Around the Network
Alkibiádēs said:
curl-6 said:

These days, there's really no meaningful separation between "console" and "handheld" games. Mario Kart 7 and 8, Mario 3D Land and 3D World, Smash Bros Wii U/3DS; portables have gotten to the point where they can pretty much do all the same kind of games as consoles, just with less graphical oomph.

Switch is an evolution, not a revolution. It takes what the PSP and Vita did, and brings it to the next level. That's not a knock against it; I've said it before and I'll say it again, I think Switch is a good idea and that it will do well if they execute it right. It's just not a brand new innovation.

 

Actually PSP and Vita got plenty of "console" games, like God of War, Uncharted, Need for Speed Most Wanted, Call of Duty, Killzone, Borderlands 2, Rayman Legends, Gran Turismo, Littlebigplanet, FIFA, etc. Even 3DS got a "new 3D Mario". 

Except the Vita and PSP didn't do anything like it...

And there's a big difference between Super Mario 3D Land and 3D World. I don't like 3D Land, but I love 3D world for instance.

How many Nintendo home consoles received Pokémon mainline games? Or 2D Zelda and Metroid games (after the introduction of 3D gaming)? Nintendo has always had specific handheld and home console titles.

None of those games you mentioned got the same attention as the home console versions btw. God of War for PSP was made by a third party studio, not Sony Santa Monica. The same goes for Uncharted. I doubt the Call of Duty games for handhelds received the same attention as their home console versions either. Rayman Legends and Littlebigplanet are 2D games, so porting that was easy.

Not a single developer would ever make a game ambitious as let's say Breath of the Wild on PSP or Vita, Nintendo and other developers doing that on Switch.

Totaly agree, I just fixed last part. :)



PSP being brought up a lot, I don't think Switch will reach PSP sales. PSP sold a ton.

The world has changed a lot since then. 



Alkibiádēs said:
curl-6 said:

These days, there's really no meaningful separation between "console" and "handheld" games. Mario Kart 7 and 8, Mario 3D Land and 3D World, Smash Bros Wii U/3DS; portables have gotten to the point where they can pretty much do all the same kind of games as consoles, just with less graphical oomph.

Switch is an evolution, not a revolution. It takes what the PSP and Vita did, and brings it to the next level. That's not a knock against it; I've said it before and I'll say it again, I think Switch is a good idea and that it will do well if they execute it right. It's just not a brand new innovation.

Actually PSP and Vita got plenty of "console" games, like God of War, Uncharted, Need for Speed Most Wanted, Call of Duty, Killzone, Borderlands 2, Rayman Legends, Gran Turismo, Littlebigplanet, FIFA, etc. Even 3DS got a "new 3D Mario". 

Except the Vita and PSP didn't do anything like it...

And there's a big difference between Super Mario 3D Land and 3D World. I don't like 3D Land, but I love 3D world for instance.

How many Nintendo home consoles received Pokémon mainline games? Or 2D Zelda and Metroid games (after the introduction of 3D gaming)? Nintendo has always had specific handheld and home console titles.

None of those games you mentioned got the same attention as the home console versions btw. God of War for PSP was made by a third party studio, not Sony Santa Monica. The same goes for Uncharted. I doubt the Call of Duty games for handhelds received the same attention as their home console versions either. Rayman Legends and Littlebigplanet are 2D games, so porting that was easy.

Not a single developer from the West would ever make a game as ambitious as let's say Breath of the Wild on handhelds... Nintendo will do that.

Whether or not they were made by the same studio doesn't matter; in terms of design and structure, portables have offered console style games for over a decade now. Vita and PSP were designed around this idea, of offering console-like experiences on the go. Switch's games won't be anything new in this regard, they'll just be the natural progression of this philosophy.



Soundwave said:

PSP being brought up a lot, I don't think Switch will reach PSP sales. PSP sold a ton.

The world has changed a lot since then. 

Agreed, I think it's quite unlikely Switch will sell as much as PSP.