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Forums - Nintendo - Capcom Wants Their Nintendo Switch Titles To Feel Different Than PS4/XB1 Games

setsunatenshi said:
Veknoid_Outcast said:

How is it the outlier? DS sold more. Now attach rate is suddenly the most important data point? Stop moving goal posts.

Why wouldn't I conflate consoles and portables? Most people who play on handhelds play them at home. Portability has relatively little to do with it. It's about software, accessibility, and price. Wii and DS were cheap and easy to understand, and hosted the games people want to play. When Nintendo tries to please both "casual" and "hardcore" fans, as it did with GCN and WiiU, it satisfies neither demographic and fails.

I never moved the goal posts, since the beggining I mentioned that the Wii was the outlier as each Nintendo home console has sold respectively lower numbers than the previous one. So what exactly makes 1 console sell around 100M and the next one sell a 10th of that? What happened to all those millions of people that love Nintendo IPs so much? 

You know what happened, they were never there because of the Nintendo IPs, they were there on a novelty item that caught on fire and sold to everyone and their gramma. I hear you on the fact that the Wii was lower priced and that obviously played into its hardware sales success, but I'm still not sure why you think the Switch is going to be priced the way you have mentioned. Also it's not the party item the Wii was, where people would gather around and casually play golf or tennis with their friends and family around the fireplace.

Again I raise this one question that I would love you'd actually try and give an opinion. If you think Nintendo should aim at the fans, all the same ones that got the Wii U, why not just go 3rd party? You've established already that people already have a PS4 and Xbox1 for all the GTAs and Mass Effects, right? With the $300 extra the fans will need to spend, imagine how many Mario, Zelda and Pokemon you could buy if they would simply focus on making the games you seem to want.

Why not go third party? Because a company like Nintendo stands to profit more from staying in the hardware business. If it was a third party provider of content it could no longer sell items with huge profit margins like controllers and accessories (at least not with the same urgency and frequency), it would forfeit licensing fees and be forced to pay them, and it would be at the mercy of Sony or Microsoft or whatever in terms of operating system, online functionality, marketing, physical media, etc.

Moreover, history shows us that hardware manufacturers who leave the business end up producing inferior games, with a much smaller footprint in the industry, e.g., Atari, Sega. Who knows if that would happen with Nintendo, as its development teams are far more accomplished than those at Atari and Sega, but there are no success stories on which to count.

P.S. I never said Nintendo should aim at WiiU owners. If anything, you're the one arguing for that, with suggestions of third-party ports (remember Mass Effect 3, Black Ops II, and Assassin's Creed IV?). I said it should aim for all the people who are casually interested in video games, and who would be willing to drop $200 for a cheap system to play Mario Kart and Pokemon.



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setsunatenshi said:

the Wii sold amazingly hardware wise, but in terms of software was absolutely terrible due to the fact of millions of people purchasing one and being content with wii sports for the entire generation.

 

If that would be true... how did the Wii manage to get that "shitty attach rate" of more than 9 games per console?

That is a pretty normal attach rate for a home console.



setsunatenshi said:

so basically you're advocating for another nieche console to play pretty much only Nintendo 1st party games and that's basically it?

they might as well just go 3rd party at that point.  paying $200 (it won't ever be 200 anywhere near launch, I don't even know where you're getting this number from) for the 'previlege' of being able to play Nintendo games and still need to own another console for everything else is exactly why they keep selling less and less home consoles as time goes by.

the Wii sold amazingly hardware wise, but in terms of software was absolutely terrible due to the fact of millions of people purchasing one and being content with wii sports for the entire generation. It was a novelty item that happened to appear at the right time. It's like chasing lightning for Nintendo to think they're going to get another hit like that and still be able to sustain it.

on your point on pokemon... i can't believe you're trying to compare that to the biggest game franchise in the world, GTA. I'm not sure where you're living to believe people are wanting a new pokemon over a new GTA lol

This is a damn lie. The Wii's software sale is way over 900 million, that's a tie ratio of 9:1. Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 both had around 11:1 I believe. And 9:1 is a lot more than most gaming systems including PS4 and Xbox One.

setsunatenshi said:
Veknoid_Outcast said:

How is it the outlier? DS sold more. Now attach rate is suddenly the most important data point? Stop moving goal posts.

Why wouldn't I conflate consoles and portables? Most people who play on handhelds play them at home. Portability has relatively little to do with it. It's about software, accessibility, and price. Wii and DS were cheap and easy to understand, and hosted the games people want to play. When Nintendo tries to please both "casual" and "hardcore" fans, as it did with GCN and WiiU, it satisfies neither demographic and fails.

I never moved the goal posts, since the beggining I mentioned that the Wii was the outlier as each Nintendo home console has sold respectively lower numbers than the previous one. So what exactly makes 1 console sell around 100M and the next one sell a 10th of that? What happened to all those millions of people that love Nintendo IPs so much? 

You know what happened, they were never there because of the Nintendo IPs, they were there on a novelty item that caught on fire and sold to everyone and their gramma. I hear you on the fact that the Wii was lower priced and that obviously played into its hardware sales success, but I'm still not sure why you think the Switch is going to be priced the way you have mentioned. Also it's not the party item the Wii was, where people would gather around and casually play golf or tennis with their friends and family around the fireplace.

Again I raise this one question that I would love you'd actually try and give an opinion. If you think Nintendo should aim at the fans, all the same ones that got the Wii U, why not just go 3rd party? You've established already that people already have a PS4 and Xbox1 for all the GTAs and Mass Effects, right? With the $300 extra the fans will need to spend, imagine how many Mario, Zelda and Pokemon you could buy if they would simply focus on making the games you seem to want.

What about those 36 million who bought Mario Kart Wii and those 29 millions who bought New Super Mario Bros. Wii? Smash Bros Brawl and Super Mario Galaxy each sold about 13 millions, that's amazing sales. I would say that indicates that a lot of Wii owners were there for those games.



setsunatenshi said:

Wii U, Wii, GC, N64

You're asking me if people would prefer a system with BF and GTA to one with Mario Kart and Pokemon?

The fact you're even asking this question tells me you're blinded by your appreciation for Nintendo franchises. It's not about cutting-edge graphics, it's about 3 factors:  Quality, quantity and popularity.

Why do you think Nintendo console sales have been declining steadily since the NES? With 1 outlier in the middle called Wii who still managed to be a dud for software sales compared to the competition. I think the only Nintendo IP I really enjoy is Fire Emblem, but even I recognize they could do amazingly well if they could do what Sony does. Ally their own exclusive quality IPs with 3rd party game release parity across the other platforms and PC. Nintendo fans love to speak about how much money Nintendo has, so if they really want to be making hardware, why not make some serious competitor to the other platforms? Anyway, I hope you enjoy your Switch, because afterall at the end of the day we're all gamers here.

Yes, people would prefer a Nintendo console with Nintendo games over a 4th device (PS4/XBO/PC being the other 3) that plays multiplat titles.

You bring up Nintendo consoles declining as proof that people want multiplat titles on Nintendo devices yet you fail to recognize that SNES saw a decline from NES despite excellent 3rd party support (exclusive & multiplats) and Gamecube had a decline from N64 despite having far better 3rd party support than N64.

You are correct that a combination of quality, quantity and popularity is important but having the same games as other devices is not a necessity to achieve that.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

JEMC said:
superchunk said:

"Tsujimoto stated that multiplatform development will be possible for the new Nintendo console"

They said its possible but they wanted to do something different. I inferred from this statement.

Archimedes: "Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world."

Like in this case, it's possible, but not doable.

Look, I'm not saying that they can't do it. I'm only saying the post where you said that ports would be cheap and easy isn't true because nothing in that sentence says or implies that.

I did not say "cheap and easy". I said, "This means they could use relatively little resources and put the same game on NS allowing for little risk to making profit". Notice the usage of "relatively" in the sentence. I think you read too much into my statement.



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Vinther1991 said:
setsunatenshi said:

so basically you're advocating for another nieche console to play pretty much only Nintendo 1st party games and that's basically it?

they might as well just go 3rd party at that point.  paying $200 (it won't ever be 200 anywhere near launch, I don't even know where you're getting this number from) for the 'previlege' of being able to play Nintendo games and still need to own another console for everything else is exactly why they keep selling less and less home consoles as time goes by.

the Wii sold amazingly hardware wise, but in terms of software was absolutely terrible due to the fact of millions of people purchasing one and being content with wii sports for the entire generation. It was a novelty item that happened to appear at the right time. It's like chasing lightning for Nintendo to think they're going to get another hit like that and still be able to sustain it.

on your point on pokemon... i can't believe you're trying to compare that to the biggest game franchise in the world, GTA. I'm not sure where you're living to believe people are wanting a new pokemon over a new GTA lol

This is a damn lie. The Wii's software sale is way over 900 million, that's a tie ratio of 9:1. Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 both had around 11:1 I believe. And 9:1 is a lot more than most gaming systems including PS4 and Xbox One.

setsunatenshi said:

I never moved the goal posts, since the beggining I mentioned that the Wii was the outlier as each Nintendo home console has sold respectively lower numbers than the previous one. So what exactly makes 1 console sell around 100M and the next one sell a 10th of that? What happened to all those millions of people that love Nintendo IPs so much? 

You know what happened, they were never there because of the Nintendo IPs, they were there on a novelty item that caught on fire and sold to everyone and their gramma. I hear you on the fact that the Wii was lower priced and that obviously played into its hardware sales success, but I'm still not sure why you think the Switch is going to be priced the way you have mentioned. Also it's not the party item the Wii was, where people would gather around and casually play golf or tennis with their friends and family around the fireplace.

Again I raise this one question that I would love you'd actually try and give an opinion. If you think Nintendo should aim at the fans, all the same ones that got the Wii U, why not just go 3rd party? You've established already that people already have a PS4 and Xbox1 for all the GTAs and Mass Effects, right? With the $300 extra the fans will need to spend, imagine how many Mario, Zelda and Pokemon you could buy if they would simply focus on making the games you seem to want.

What about those 36 million who bought Mario Kart Wii and those 29 millions who bought New Super Mario Bros. Wii? Smash Bros Brawl and Super Mario Galaxy each sold about 13 millions, that's amazing sales. I would say that indicates that a lot of Wii owners were there for those games.

Yes, 36 million is a really high number on a console starved for quality games... except the point of comparison was GTA in the discussion you quoted...

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/05/18/gta-5-has-now-shipped-65-million-units

So how was I wrong by saying GTA is the biggest game franchise in the world?



Veknoid_Outcast said:
setsunatenshi said:

I never moved the goal posts, since the beggining I mentioned that the Wii was the outlier as each Nintendo home console has sold respectively lower numbers than the previous one. So what exactly makes 1 console sell around 100M and the next one sell a 10th of that? What happened to all those millions of people that love Nintendo IPs so much? 

You know what happened, they were never there because of the Nintendo IPs, they were there on a novelty item that caught on fire and sold to everyone and their gramma. I hear you on the fact that the Wii was lower priced and that obviously played into its hardware sales success, but I'm still not sure why you think the Switch is going to be priced the way you have mentioned. Also it's not the party item the Wii was, where people would gather around and casually play golf or tennis with their friends and family around the fireplace.

Again I raise this one question that I would love you'd actually try and give an opinion. If you think Nintendo should aim at the fans, all the same ones that got the Wii U, why not just go 3rd party? You've established already that people already have a PS4 and Xbox1 for all the GTAs and Mass Effects, right? With the $300 extra the fans will need to spend, imagine how many Mario, Zelda and Pokemon you could buy if they would simply focus on making the games you seem to want.

Why not go third party? Because a company like Nintendo stands to profit more from staying in the hardware business. If it was a third party provider of content it could no longer sell items with huge profit margins like controllers and accessories (at least not with the same urgency and frequency), it would forfeit licensing fees and be forced to pay them, and it would be at the mercy of Sony or Microsoft or whatever in terms of operating system, online functionality, marketing, physical media, etc.

Moreover, history shows us that hardware manufacturers who leave the business end up producing inferior games, with a much smaller footprint in the industry, e.g., Atari, Sega. Who knows if that would happen with Nintendo, as its development teams are far more accomplished than those at Atari and Sega, but there are no success stories on which to count.

P.S. I never said Nintendo should aim at WiiU owners. If anything, you're the one arguing for that, with suggestions of third-party ports (remember Mass Effect 3, Black Ops II, and Assassin's Creed IV?). I said it should aim for all the people who are casually interested in video games, and who would be willing to drop $200 for a cheap system to play Mario Kart and Pokemon.

Very well, I guess we just fundamentally disagree on how we feel they should present their product.

I personally would not want a Wii as I believe it was a subpar product. I do remember though Nintendo being quite successful in an industry where there was a some multiplatform parity with Sega consoles (Nes, SNES) adding strong exclusives to complement each library. If they presented a console that was at least technically comparable to Sony's or MS's, there would be no reason why 3rd parties wouldn't support them.



That could potentially be a good thing for Nintendo, as having its own unique library of games on the console would be better compared to receiving the same ports the other consoles get. Although, those games need to be good quality games as well.

At least the switch would be a good fit for Monster Hunter. (And it would still be nice to get SOME ports over. I'd like to play RE7 on the switch too)



 

              

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Dr.Vita said:
So they want to continue with low-budget games on Nintendo Switch like they did with 3DS.

Pretty much. Hell even on their remasters they are standard increased resolutions and improved frame rates(not even locked 60 frames per second) with not much in the way of improved assets, textures etc. They do charge less for their remasters though compared to most.



The best thing for Switch is to get the exact same 3rd party games with the exact same content as the PS4 and Xbox One. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional or don't know gaming history.



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