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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Treyarch were darn good to Nintendo gamers

curl-6 said:

Not only did they bring us every COD game they made from Big Red One on Gamecube through to Black Ops II on Wii U, but they even ported ones they didn't make like Modern Warfare 1 & 3 and Ghosts.

With the COD series alone they brought us 5 "core" games on the Wii; how many other third parties did as much?

They may no longer be with us, but I think I'll always have a soft spot for them, for sticking with us when most others didn't.

I always had great praise for Treyarch. Activision and Infinity Ward were both worthy of scorn, but Treyarch fought the good fight for gamers. World at War for Wii was practically made by a single guy, because it was all Activision was willing to let them spare, but even with the many lacking features, etc, and Activision ignoring the Wii version, gamers still bought it in enough numbers for Treyarch to get more clout on the topic, which is, I believe, how the following games happened.

I also strongly expect that Treyarch would still be making Wii U CoD titles if they could, but Activision won't allow it. I honestly think Treyarch is still with Nintendo gamers in spirit, and will push to ensure that their games appear on NX.



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Aielyn said:
curl-6 said:

Not only did they bring us every COD game they made from Big Red One on Gamecube through to Black Ops II on Wii U, but they even ported ones they didn't make like Modern Warfare 1 & 3 and Ghosts.

With the COD series alone they brought us 5 "core" games on the Wii; how many other third parties did as much?

They may no longer be with us, but I think I'll always have a soft spot for them, for sticking with us when most others didn't.

I always had great praise for Treyarch. Activision and Infinity Ward were both worthy of scorn, but Treyarch fought the good fight for gamers. World at War for Wii was practically made by a single guy, because it was all Activision was willing to let them spare, but even with the many lacking features, etc, and Activision ignoring the Wii version, gamers still bought it in enough numbers for Treyarch to get more clout on the topic, which is, I believe, how the following games happened.

I also strongly expect that Treyarch would still be making Wii U CoD titles if they could, but Activision won't allow it. I honestly think Treyarch is still with Nintendo gamers in spirit, and will push to ensure that their games appear on NX.

I could be wrong, but I thought it was COD3 on Wii that was ported by just two guys, while from World at War onwards Treyarch had an actual dedicated team for handling the Wii/Wii U COD games.



curl-6 said:
Barozi said:
Treyarch is not an independent studio. If anything you should thank Activision for the ports.

I appreciate Activision calling the shots, but I also appreciate Treyarch for getting it done and doing an admirable job.

its not like they really had a choice. its not even the entire team. They have subteam dedicated to making those ports



oniyide said:
curl-6 said:

I appreciate Activision calling the shots, but I also appreciate Treyarch for getting it done and doing an admirable job.

its not like they really had a choice. its not even the entire team. They have subteam dedicated to making those ports

They could've told Activision that it just can't be done, the Wii just can't handle it.

Activision let Infinity Ward skip the Wii with Modern Warfare, they would've let Treyarch do the same.



Treyarch did noble with the Wii ports of Call of Duty. They in general are a pretty talented developer, who I hope will get to flex their development muscles beyond making Call of Duty every other year.



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curl-6 said:
bonzobanana said:
I bought black ops 2 for wii u though after already playing it on 360 and it was massively inferior. Much worse frame rates, missing detail, slower load times and a less ideal controller to play it.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-black-ops-2-wii-u-face-off

It was games like this that really gave away just how poor the wii u spec was not even able to match consoles released 5-6 years before. At the time Nintendo fans were blaming lack of development experience and a cheap and nasty port as the explanation but now when you realise the wii u only has a 176 gflops gpu and 3 very weak 32bit PPC cores at 1.2ghz what they achieved seems pretty fantastic considering the game had fairly high cpu requirements.

Really it was only the motion controls on both wii and wii u that added something to the gamplay of their games.

Wii U has a slower CPU than PS3/360 but its hardware is more capable overall due to its more modern GPU and larger RAM.

BO2 is a game that frequently throws large numbers of NPCs into play at once, hence its core design is more suited to PS3/360, in the same way that more GPU/Memory bound games like Need for Speed and Trine 2 are a better fit for Wii U. It's also a game built on 6 years of optimization to PS3/360's hardware, but a launch title for Wii U.

Personally, I'll take the Wii U version of BO2 for the pointer controls alone. Hell, I bought MW1/W@W/BO/MW3 on Wii despite owning an Xbox 360, because I prefer the pointer that much.

Wii u cpu is much slower, wii u gpu is actually slower in gflops. Only 176 gflops on wii u but I totally accept the later architecture and memory management makes it superior to ps3 and 360. Main memory bandwidth is less on wii u, no hard drive either but it does have that very fast 32mb of eram plus the original wii gpu is in there too which is normally used for the gamepad screen.  Generally both ps3 and 360 are more powerful I would say but it depends on the game of course. Trine 2 is a better fit but Need for Speed had a cut down number of online components on wii u. Also ps3 has incredible cpu performance with its dual thread powerpc main cpu and 7 cell processors. PS3 often supports 7.1 sound of fantastic quality that you don't get on either wii u or 360.

I own all three systems and for me the wii u is the weakest of the 3. It has the slowest loading, often lowest frame rates plus other issues. Still all three have fantastic games including many exclusives but its disappointing again that Nintendo released such a dire console at such an inflated price. Hoping with the NX they won't try to sell weak tech at grossly inflated prices.



curl-6 said:
bonzobanana said:
I bought black ops 2 for wii u though after already playing it on 360 and it was massively inferior. Much worse frame rates, missing detail, slower load times and a less ideal controller to play it.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-black-ops-2-wii-u-face-off

It was games like this that really gave away just how poor the wii u spec was not even able to match consoles released 5-6 years before. At the time Nintendo fans were blaming lack of development experience and a cheap and nasty port as the explanation but now when you realise the wii u only has a 176 gflops gpu and 3 very weak 32bit PPC cores at 1.2ghz what they achieved seems pretty fantastic considering the game had fairly high cpu requirements.

Really it was only the motion controls on both wii and wii u that added something to the gamplay of their games.

Wii U has a slower CPU than PS3/360 but its hardware is more capable overall due to its more modern GPU and larger RAM.

BO2 is a game that frequently throws large numbers of NPCs into play at once, hence its core design is more suited to PS3/360, in the same way that more GPU/Memory bound games like Need for Speed and Trine 2 are a better fit for Wii U. It's also a game built on 6 years of optimization to PS3/360's hardware, but a launch title for Wii U.

Personally, I'll take the Wii U version of BO2 for the pointer controls alone. Hell, I bought MW1/W@W/BO/MW3 on Wii despite owning an Xbox 360, because I prefer the pointer that much.

Me too. I prefer to play BO2 (and Ghosts) on WiiU. Playing with the pointer is so much easier - and makes more sense to me- than playing with the control stick to aim. I´m not a huge fan of FPS and if I can´t have precision aiming (like when playing on PC with a mouse), I won´t get even near the game.



bonzobanana said:
curl-6 said:

Wii U has a slower CPU than PS3/360 but its hardware is more capable overall due to its more modern GPU and larger RAM.

BO2 is a game that frequently throws large numbers of NPCs into play at once, hence its core design is more suited to PS3/360, in the same way that more GPU/Memory bound games like Need for Speed and Trine 2 are a better fit for Wii U. It's also a game built on 6 years of optimization to PS3/360's hardware, but a launch title for Wii U.

Personally, I'll take the Wii U version of BO2 for the pointer controls alone. Hell, I bought MW1/W@W/BO/MW3 on Wii despite owning an Xbox 360, because I prefer the pointer that much.

Wii u cpu is much slower, wii u gpu is actually slower in gflops. Only 176 gflops on wii u but I totally accept the later architecture and memory management makes it superior to ps3 and 360. Main memory bandwidth is less on wii u, no hard drive either but it does have that very fast 32mb of eram plus the original wii gpu is in there too which is normally used for the gamepad screen.  Generally both ps3 and 360 are more powerful I would say but it depends on the game of course. Trine 2 is a better fit but Need for Speed had a cut down number of online components on wii u. Also ps3 has incredible cpu performance with its dual thread powerpc main cpu and 7 cell processors. PS3 often supports 7.1 sound of fantastic quality that you don't get on either wii u or 360.

I own all three systems and for me the wii u is the weakest of the 3. It has the slowest loading, often lowest frame rates plus other issues. Still all three have fantastic games including many exclusives but its disappointing again that Nintendo released such a dire console at such an inflated price. Hoping with the NX they won't try to sell weak tech at grossly inflated prices.

Main RAM bandwidth doesn't need to be as high when you have 32MB of fast eDRAM for performing tasks that require high bandwidth (Versus 10MB in 360 and none in PS3) Also, while it may lack a HDD, Wii U can actually stream from its internal memory as well as from disc; Xenoblade Chronicles X uses this technique to reduce pop-in and load times, in much the same way as the installs in many PS3/360 games.

I suspect NFS's player count was more a concession to the Wii U's vastly smaller player base than a matter CPU constraints; fewer players means its easier to get a full house with a very small population. Graphically, the game improves over the last gen versions with higher resolution textures, additional reflections, and a smoother framerate. 

I do agree that Wii U was overpriced though.



curl-6 said:
oniyide said:

its not like they really had a choice. its not even the entire team. They have subteam dedicated to making those ports

They could've told Activision that it just can't be done, the Wii just can't handle it.

Activision let Infinity Ward skip the Wii with Modern Warfare, they would've let Treyarch do the same.

No they couldn't. Treyarch doesnt have near the influence that IW has. Treyarch was the B team for a while. If Acitivision tells them to do somethng, they were going to do it. And its not like the entire team was making those ports. 

IW didnt want to make those games for Wii because they felt they didnt want to compromise their work, so Acti had a small team from Treyarch do it. Activision knew it could be done.



oniyide said:
curl-6 said:

They could've told Activision that it just can't be done, the Wii just can't handle it.

Activision let Infinity Ward skip the Wii with Modern Warfare, they would've let Treyarch do the same.

No they couldn't. Treyarch doesnt have near the influence that IW has. Treyarch was the B team for a while. If Acitivision tells them to do somethng, they were going to do it. And its not like the entire team was making those ports. 

IW didnt want to make those games for Wii because they felt they didnt want to compromise their work, so Acti had a small team from Treyarch do it. Activision knew it could be done.

If Treyarch were really held in such low esteem by Activision, they wouldn't have been working on a megahit franchise in the first place. They may not have had as much clout as IW, but I see no reason why Activision wouldn't have listened if Treyarch had fallen back on the "hardware can't handle it" excuse.