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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Uncharted director criticizes triple-a development, says it can 'destroy people'

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Wyrdness said:
GoOnKid said:

"The industry really needs to return to the once in a while AAA project supported by projects that even though are less in scope are polished and quality."

This describes Nintendo's philosophy quite well, I think.

Their philosophy is more gameplay first everything else later tbh, what i described is more how most companies operated before the latter half of the 7th gen, Nintendo sure enough still operate this way but I wouldn't say it's their philosophy per say they just stuck with the approach despite the industry going AAA mad while building on their gameplay first philosophy.

Okay, I can agree with that.



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DonFerrari said:
Rob5VGC said:

If that is how you interpreted it then that is how you interpreted it.

Yes that is how I interpret, basically because that is how you are portraying it. There are already games that doesn't emphasize graphics if you want to buy them, so you don't need to be complaining about games that do because other people value that.

Your interpretation is darker and deeper than what the comment was portraying. lol



GoOnKid said:
Wyrdness said:

Pretty sure this is no hidden secret, Ken Levine upped and left because of similar problems in AAA development, he recently said it hit him particularly hard because he's never really been the upbeat type. The AAA approach as a whole looks to be more self destructive for the industry when that's all everyone is going for.

The industry really needs to return to the once in a while AAA project supported by projects that even though are less in scope are polished and quality instead of the constant AAA attempts like today as it's becoming more miss than hits tbh.

Are you saying that other companies should become more like Nintendo?

You're kidding yourself if you don't Nintendo has hundreds of employees working 60-80 hour work weeks for months on end the same as every other development studio. Nintendo is no better or worse in this regard.



potato_hamster said:
GoOnKid said:

Are you saying that other companies should become more like Nintendo?

You're kidding yourself if you don't Nintendo has hundreds of employees working 60-80 hour work weeks for months on end the same as every other development studio. Nintendo is no better or worse in this regard.

I meant the second part of the comment. About releasing smaller games as well, not just AAA. I'm pretty sure the Zelda team, for example, works their damn asses off.



You'd think with how many delays Uncharted 4 has had and how barebones the MP launched at that Naughty Dog has done away with crunch.



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This is what Tabata (FFXV's Director) said on a interview. That the polishing part was much harder and needed much more time than he expected.



GoOnKid said:
potato_hamster said:

You're kidding yourself if you don't Nintendo has hundreds of employees working 60-80 hour work weeks for months on end the same as every other development studio. Nintendo is no better or worse in this regard.

I meant the second part of the comment. About releasing smaller games as well, not just AAA. I'm pretty sure the Zelda team, for example, works their damn asses off.

They all work their damn asses off. How about you go ask the guys at team meat how many hours they put into Super Meat Boy, or Phil Fish on Fez, or Jonathan Blow on Braid?

I bet you it's more than 80 hours a week, especially in the last 1/4 of their development process.

Just because you're on a smaller team or a smaller project doesn't mean you're not putting in disgusting amounts of time and effort. The only consolation being in those cases, those guys CHOSE to put in those hours, whereas working for any major publisher, they expect you to. In fact, in my experience, I put in more hours developing smaller, lower budget games than I did multi-million selling AAA games.

Again, that's just my experience though. In general, you're right, smaller projects tend to be less demanding.



potato_hamster said:
GoOnKid said:

I meant the second part of the comment. About releasing smaller games as well, not just AAA. I'm pretty sure the Zelda team, for example, works their damn asses off.

They all work their damn asses off. How about you go ask the guys at team meat how many hours they put into Super Meat Boy, or Phil Fish on Fez, or Jonathan Blow on Braid?

I bet you it's more than 80 hours a week, especially in the last 1/4 of their development process.

Just because you're on a smaller team or a smaller project doesn't mean you're not putting in disgusting amounts of time and effort. The only consolation being in those cases, those guys CHOSE to put in those hours, whereas working for any major publisher, they expect you to. In fact, in my experience, I put in more hours developing smaller, lower budget games than I did multi-million selling AAA games.

Again, that's just my experience though. In general, you're right, smaller projects tend to be less demanding.

So, is there any way out? Can anything be done? Who's to blame and what would be the solution? (I know it's not that easy and that multiple factors weigh in differently and after all it comes down to each specific game that is regarded, but I ask you anyway. You as an insider. What could put the pressure off?)



pray4mojo said:
Brii said:

The thing is, the people that have the opporunity to create those solutions often don't want to, because it's not as beneficial for them. The developers have little say in the matter when their superior is cracking the whip on them. It's a direct conflict of interest. Again, referring back to my own job, what is best for our project managers (low immediate costs, short timelines, keeping clients happy by giving into to their every whim) is directly at odds with what is best for me (better but more immediately expensive tools and processes, adequate timlines, and sometimes telling the client that they have no idea what they want and they should just listen to my expertise on the matter goshdangit). That's just the unfortunate nature of the job. We're the grunt workers and the code monkeys at the end of the day.

It doesn't help when gamers put pressure on these companies to make bigger, better games with better graphics and no delays or far off release dates. 

Well, just from reading the OP and talking to you, I have a whole new perspective on the subject and an appreciation for huge games in general. It's not right what these guys have to go through and it's a shame our society is so hell bent on profits. 

It seems only something like federal oversight and regulations will solve it.

Please keep government out of it unless you want to make things even worse.

Rob5VGC said:
DonFerrari said:

Yes that is how I interpret, basically because that is how you are portraying it. There are already games that doesn't emphasize graphics if you want to buy them, so you don't need to be complaining about games that do because other people value that.

Your interpretation is darker and deeper than what the comment was portraying. lol

I tend to have a dark side. But you just ment like you like games that are less worried with graphics ok.

GoOnKid said:
potato_hamster said:

You're kidding yourself if you don't Nintendo has hundreds of employees working 60-80 hour work weeks for months on end the same as every other development studio. Nintendo is no better or worse in this regard.

I meant the second part of the comment. About releasing smaller games as well, not just AAA. I'm pretty sure the Zelda team, for example, works their damn asses off.

Well, Sony, EA, Ubisoft and a lot of other companies I can remember releasing, backing or publishing smaller games. Is just that a 200 people team will hardly work on small games. So the main teams work on AAA and other teams may support external devs or dev smaller games.

GoOnKid said:
potato_hamster said:

They all work their damn asses off. How about you go ask the guys at team meat how many hours they put into Super Meat Boy, or Phil Fish on Fez, or Jonathan Blow on Braid?

I bet you it's more than 80 hours a week, especially in the last 1/4 of their development process.

Just because you're on a smaller team or a smaller project doesn't mean you're not putting in disgusting amounts of time and effort. The only consolation being in those cases, those guys CHOSE to put in those hours, whereas working for any major publisher, they expect you to. In fact, in my experience, I put in more hours developing smaller, lower budget games than I did multi-million selling AAA games.

Again, that's just my experience though. In general, you're right, smaller projects tend to be less demanding.

So, is there any way out? Can anything be done? Who's to blame and what would be the solution? (I know it's not that easy and that multiple factors weigh in differently and after all it comes down to each specific game that is regarded, but I ask you anyway. You as an insider. What could put the pressure off?)

Yep. If customers accept to receive smaller, ugglier, buggier games for a bigger price they could have less time put and bigger paychecks... since we know that won't happen you don't have much to do.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

GoOnKid said:
potato_hamster said:

They all work their damn asses off. How about you go ask the guys at team meat how many hours they put into Super Meat Boy, or Phil Fish on Fez, or Jonathan Blow on Braid?

I bet you it's more than 80 hours a week, especially in the last 1/4 of their development process.

Just because you're on a smaller team or a smaller project doesn't mean you're not putting in disgusting amounts of time and effort. The only consolation being in those cases, those guys CHOSE to put in those hours, whereas working for any major publisher, they expect you to. In fact, in my experience, I put in more hours developing smaller, lower budget games than I did multi-million selling AAA games.

Again, that's just my experience though. In general, you're right, smaller projects tend to be less demanding.

So, is there any way out? Can anything be done? Who's to blame and what would be the solution? (I know it's not that easy and that multiple factors weigh in differently and after all it comes down to each specific game that is regarded, but I ask you anyway. You as an insider. What could put the pressure off?)

Honestly, probably a game developer's union of some sort. The film industry would be just as bad if it wasn't for unions protecting their workers from profit driven corportations. Otherwise, there's nothing you can do. There's hundreds of people who have never made a game in their life, who haven't gone through the grind of making a video game from start to finish that are willing to do your job, with the same hours, and same pay. It's hard to have a bargaining chip when employers know that.

... but if developers pulling the shit they do led to strikes, or walkouts, or triggered automatic financial compensations to those who are forced into the meat grinder, it would change.