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Forums - Sports Discussion - The Pro Wrasslin' Thread (WWE, WWF, WCW, TNA, ROH, NWA, NJPW, etc)

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What match are you excited for at WWE Payback 2017?

Neville vs. Austin Aries ... 1 5.88%
 
Randy Orton vs. Bray Wyat... 3 17.65%
 
The Hardy Boyz vs. Cesaro... 3 17.65%
 
Kevin Owens vs. Chris Jer... 4 23.53%
 
Bayley vs. Alexa Bliss (Raw Women's Title) 3 17.65%
 
Seth Rollins vs. Samoa Joe 1 5.88%
 
Roman Reigns vs. Braun Strowman 2 11.76%
 
Total:17
BasilZero said:

Its too bad Bobby Lashley wont be in a match - guy got screwed by Bray Wyatt's issue.

Hopefully he does a challenge match like Rollins did last year or he gets involved somehow in the Lesnar VS Omos storyline.

I'm excited the most for the Roman Reigns VS Cody Rhodes match and the Sami Zayn/Kevin Owens VS Usos match.

Wishing for the best for Bray. When he came back and was talking about depression... Maybe it was just him being a really good promo, but that felt real. Its been unclear what exactly the issue is, but hopefully he's alright physically and mentally. Lashley put out an open challenge. Maybe Bray could return there, if he got cleared in the nick of time but too late to really promote it, which would be unlikely. But I can't think of anyone else who would quite fit in that slot. Wyatt's return has kind of fizzled, and it's a shame. Really talented dude. 

I think I'm more excited for Sami/Owens than Rhodes/Reigns. Definitely the right call to do it this way, but just a bigger fan of Sami overall, although Rhodes has been doing great since returning.

I'm also pretty hyped for Asuka vs Bianca. Now, the build has been shit, but I think Asuka is going to go over, and I really want to see Asuka have a decent run on the main roster. Not clear how much longer she'll be around, so it would be nice to see her get her moment. And... Kairi Sane recently became a free agent... and HHH is booking Raw... so... hmmmmmmm.......

Surprisingly looking forward to Dominic and Rey. Give the kid credit he has fucking nailed this role. Rhea has also helped so much with his presentation. 

Fatal 5 way on stand and deliver was excellent. It was a spot fest but a damn good one. Those kinds of matches work better as multimen matches because the guy who takes the spot doesn't have to bounce up and get ready for the next one. Everyone came out looking great.



Thinking more on the Mania card, it's kind of consistent with HHH's booking style. There are a lot of good things. Pretty much looking forward to every match, aside from the four way tags (why are these not for a title shot to give them some zing?) even Omos vs Brock in its own way. But... there's very little that really stands out in a major way, except the bloodline stuff. There's way more balance than the Vince days when half the shows were kind of filler programs, but I think a lot of their bigger stars aren't shining as brightly as they used to in the past. I think it's an overall good tradeoff, but still a work in progress.

I think they kind of went underboard with gimmick matches. Surprisingly, there is only one gimmick match, the cell match with Edge and Balor. And, I sincerely hope they won't be doing anything too crazy there with Edge's history. Again, I think this is better than some past events which went overboard, but I think there's a happier medium. Maybe instead of one of the tag four ways they could have had some kind of ladder extravaganza, or Rhea and Charlotte could have been an I Quit match. Dominic vs Rey would have made sense as a mask vs hair match. 

Last of my nitpicking is that this seems like a pretty predictable card. To be fair, sometimes you just have to end a story the right way. Time for the bloodline to collapse, Rhodes to win the big one, Rhea to take her place as champion, and so on. It will be satisfying, but there are only a handful of matches with real suspense to them. But hey, I can't really complain there isn't a surprise, because if I saw them coming, they wouldn't be uhhhhhh... surprising.

Lot of nitpicking, but this is the most I've enjoyed wrestling in a long time due to a combination of better booking, and just being in a better place myself. Bloodline story is easily the best in WWE, and likely the best in any major promotion since the "Yes" movement. Only thing that comes to mind possibly rivaling it was the MJF/Punk rivalry, but that kind of never got out of the first act for various reasons. Becky's rise to the top was also great, but it was more just because a wrestler people liked was getting her due than it being an expertly crafted story.

There is still the cloud of a Saudi takeover looming, so gotta enjoy this mania like it's my last cause it could be. Hope everyone enjoys it, or whatever other wrestling they may watch in this magical season!

Edit: Just saw a clip of Lawler from the Hall of Fame. Amazing to see as he just had a stroke and was unable to talk for a time. Looked great, and was able to talk clearly. Wonderful news. Interestingly, he was speaking way differently. More low pitched. I think maybe his voice had been kind of a character voice all of these years, and I just never realized, but after the stroke he's having trouble doing it. Or, it could just be he was talking more normally for the occasion. Either way, glad that he regained his ability to speak and seems to be recovering well. <3

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 01 April 2023

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Have they done an entry like Paul's zipline since Owen? I know its been a while and I'm sure that they quadruple checked the rig, but it still feels weird.



I thought Sami and KO vs the Usos should main event over Rhea and Charlotte, but I have some doubts right now. Charlotte vs Rhea was absolutely excellent. Great example of building the tension throughout the match to the point where those nearfalls actually meant something. Sami, Kev, and the Usos have a tough act to follow.

Edit: Really fun main event. As good as it gets for the sports entertainment style. In retrospect, I'm not sure if this should have been the main event or Rhea vs Charlotte. But that's just because they were both great matches, so that's not a terrible problem to have.

Overall, very good event. Pretty much every match on the card either met (Theory Cena/Owens Sami/Usos, Logan Seth) or exceeded (Rhea Charlotte, men's four way) expectations. Only thing I didn't really like was the six way women's match. Hate to say it, but Lita just doesn't "have it" anymore. And considering how few women's heels they have, didn't seem wise to make Damage Control more of chumps.

But everything else was good, so can't complain too much. It was a night of predictable finishes, but since this should be the end for most of these feud, sometimes the story just has to end in the obvious satisfying way. Think everyone knew that Frodo would *spoiler for Lord of the Rings I guess* destroy the ring, but the journey was still fun. 

They could have probably shaved off a half hour though. Promo packages are one thing, but promo packages for next night's matches? You've gone too far E.

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 02 April 2023

JWeinCom said:

I thought Sami and KO vs the Usos should main event over Rhea and Charlotte, but I have some doubts right now. Charlotte vs Rhea was absolutely excellent. Great example of building the tension throughout the match to the point where those nearfalls actually meant something. Sami, Kev, and the Usos have a tough act to follow.

Edit: Really fun main event. As good as it gets for the sports entertainment style. In retrospect, I'm not sure if this should have been the main event or Rhea vs Charlotte. But that's just because they were both great matches, so that's not a terrible problem to have.

Overall, very good event. Pretty much every match on the card either met (Theory Cena/Owens Sami/Usos, Logan Seth) or exceeded (Rhea Charlotte, men's four way) expectations. Only thing I didn't really like was the six way women's match. Hate to say it, but Lita just doesn't "have it" anymore. And considering how few women's heels they have, didn't seem wise to make Damage Control more of chumps.

But everything else was good, so can't complain too much. It was a night of predictable finishes, but since this should be the end for most of these feud, sometimes the story just has to end in the obvious satisfying way. Think everyone knew that Frodo would *spoiler for Lord of the Rings I guess* destroy the ring, but the journey was still fun. 

They could have probably shaved off a half hour though. Promo packages are one thing, but promo packages for next night's matches? You've gone too far E.

As great as Rhea/Charlotte was, KO-Sami/Usos had EVERYTHING behind it and the people cared so much about it to where I had no doubt in my mind they could follow it. I don't think Rhea and Charlotte could have followed the Tag match if it had been the other way around. That's the difference. I still firmly believe that Sami-KO and the Usos being in the Main Event was the right call. And ultimately, I think the fact that they WEREN'T the main event actually HELPED Charlotte and Rhea. It was easy to tell early on just by looking at them that they were PISSED OFF that they weren't the main event. Much like Batista and Undertaker were pissed off that THEY weren't the main event at WrestleMania 23 over Cena and HBK. And just like with those two, Charlotte and Rhea went into this match w/ a chip on their shoulder to try to steal the show and the match was better for it!

Only match of the night that disappointed for me was Cena/Theory. The match wasn't really all that exciting. It never hit that gear and by the time it was about to, it was over. And it ends in a cheap finish. A low blow, cheap-heat finish after he tapped out to the STF? That was a little too "Super Cena" for my liking. Other than that, this was an outstanding Night 1 and I have every faith that Night 2 can top it.

Last edited by PAOerfulone - on 02 April 2023

I just finished.
Those last three matches were top tier. Mysterio vs Mysterio, Charlotte vs Rhea, and Sammy/KO vs Usos alone were better than most Wrestlemanias I can remember ever watching. And there’s a whole other day of it, and I haven’t even watched the NXT night yet. I skipped a few of the matches (the Miz one, the fatal four way tag match, and the Jake Paul one), but will probably watch them at a later date.

I expected the women’s tag match to be a bit of a dud considering Trish and Lita even if they’re still good at what they do; although Lita doesn’t do the top/mid rope leaping hurricanrana anymore, which used to be one of the only two moves she did in the Essa Rios days. But Shirai and Kai are on a different level, and I’m fairly sure they toned it down for those two.

I think Rhea could have sold the leg pain when she failed to lift Charlotte after the roll up, but the other botch was Charlotte’s face plant (which didn’t hurt the match at all), otherwise that one was my favourite match of the night.

Asuka vs Belair is my prediction for my favourite match of the night tomorrow with Edge vs Balor being runner up. Note: I could be surprised as aI haven’t watched WWE in a few years.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

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Sounds like a good night.

Hopefully night 2 will be better and if not, hopefully as good.

Hoping for Rhodes to win the title.



PAOerfulone said:
JWeinCom said:

I thought Sami and KO vs the Usos should main event over Rhea and Charlotte, but I have some doubts right now. Charlotte vs Rhea was absolutely excellent. Great example of building the tension throughout the match to the point where those nearfalls actually meant something. Sami, Kev, and the Usos have a tough act to follow.

Edit: Really fun main event. As good as it gets for the sports entertainment style. In retrospect, I'm not sure if this should have been the main event or Rhea vs Charlotte. But that's just because they were both great matches, so that's not a terrible problem to have.

Overall, very good event. Pretty much every match on the card either met (Theory Cena/Owens Sami/Usos, Logan Seth) or exceeded (Rhea Charlotte, men's four way) expectations. Only thing I didn't really like was the six way women's match. Hate to say it, but Lita just doesn't "have it" anymore. And considering how few women's heels they have, didn't seem wise to make Damage Control more of chumps.

But everything else was good, so can't complain too much. It was a night of predictable finishes, but since this should be the end for most of these feud, sometimes the story just has to end in the obvious satisfying way. Think everyone knew that Frodo would *spoiler for Lord of the Rings I guess* destroy the ring, but the journey was still fun. 

They could have probably shaved off a half hour though. Promo packages are one thing, but promo packages for next night's matches? You've gone too far E.

As great as Rhea/Charlotte was, KO-Sami/Usos had EVERYTHING behind it and the people cared so much about it to where I had no doubt in my mind they could follow it. I don't think Rhea and Charlotte could have followed the Tag match if it had been the other way around. That's the difference. I still firmly believe that Sami-KO and the Usos being in the Main Event was the right call. And ultimately, I think the fact that they WEREN'T the main event actually HELPED Charlotte and Rhea. It was easy to tell early on just by looking at them that they were PISSED OFF that they weren't the main event. Much like Batista and Undertaker were pissed off that THEY weren't the main event at WrestleMania 23 over Cena and HBK. And just like with those two, Charlotte and Rhea went into this match w/ a chip on their shoulder to try to steal the show and the match was better for it!

Only match of the night that disappointed for me was Cena/Theory. The match wasn't really all that exciting. It never hit that gear and by the time it was about to, it was over. And it ends in a cheap finish. A low blow, cheap-heat finish after he tapped out to the STF? That was a little too "Super Cena" for my liking. Other than that, this was an outstanding Night 1 and I have every faith that Night 2 can top it.

The tag match definitely had the better build, but I still kind of think Charlotte vs Rhea was the better overall match. Although you do have a point that the crowd might have just been a little worn out if the tag match were first. Especially since Charlotte and Rhea did start off a bit slow. And all of the people involved, especially Sami, really helped carry the WWE over the last year. Either way, silver and gold. They were two really fantastic matches, so I'm not going to fret too much about which was the official main event. Hopefully Rhea and Charlotte are just proud of what they did and won't fret about it either.

A few people also didn't like the Theory Cena finish, but I thought it was good. Theory tapped out, but I think the point was that he knew the ref was down and wouldn't count it. It was a clever way to get out of the hold. The whole point of the build was that he wasn't "ready" but in the end, he outsmarted his far more experienced opponent. And since Theory is a heel, I'm fine with him winning off the low blow. I agree with the match not really getting into third gear, but I liked the finish.

I guess I would also have to say that Macafee vs the Miz wasn't a great match, but it served its purpose. I think it was smart to space out the women's title and tag title matches, and this was a reasonably fun way to do that. 

Night 2 will be interesting. I don't think the builds for these matches have been as great, aside from Rhodes/Reigns, but they all (well mostly) involve super talented people that can easily exceed expectations. Hoping Asuka and Bianca can have a show stealing match. 

Jumpin said:

I just finished.
Those last three matches were top tier. Mysterio vs Mysterio, Charlotte vs Rhea, and Sammy/KO vs Usos alone were better than most Wrestlemanias I can remember ever watching. And there’s a whole other day of it, and I haven’t even watched the NXT night yet. I skipped a few of the matches (the Miz one, the fatal four way tag match, and the Jake Paul one), but will probably watch them at a later date.

I expected the women’s tag match to be a bit of a dud considering Trish and Lita even if they’re still good at what they do; although Lita doesn’t do the top/mid rope leaping hurricanrana anymore, which used to be one of the only two moves she did in the Essa Rios days. But Shirai and Kai are on a different level, and I’m fairly sure they toned it down for those two.

I think Rhea could have sold the leg pain when she failed to lift Charlotte after the roll up, but the other botch was Charlotte’s face plant (which didn’t hurt the match at all), otherwise that one was my favourite match of the night.

Asuka vs Belair is my prediction for my favourite match of the night tomorrow with Edge vs Balor being runner up. Note: I could be surprised as aI haven’t watched WWE in a few years.

I hate to say it, but I kind of feel like Lita and Stratus just weren't as good as we remember. I think they really stood out in an era where women were not treated as a serious attraction at all, and they did sooooo much to change the division for the better. People wanted to see them simply because they were hot as hell (and still are), and then they were good enough to get people invested in them as wrestlers, especially in that era.

That being said, I think even in their primes, they weren't on the same level as Damage Control and Becky. And especially now that they're a bit older, I just don't think it worked. I really think they probably just should have either used Trish or Lita in this storyline, and had another current girl on Becky's side. If Tegan Nox is healthy, she would have been a good fit. 

I really hope Asuka and Bianca is match of the night, but I think the build for that has been so weak that they have a lot to overcome. Rhodes and Reigns have the opposite problem where I think people are expecting a lot and we'll see if they can deliver.

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 02 April 2023

Another ”botch” I forgot to note (not really a botch so much as a hiccup). The tag championship match had a lot of obvious planning talk, they were going back and forth between each other’s ear like 20 seconds at one point. Although, I don’t know if that’s their fault or the production truck. Although, it didn’t hurt the match too much, it just stood out to me.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Well that kind of sucked.



As disappointing and deflating as that was, if they're going where I think they are with this story, I think it'll ultimately lead to a more satisfying victory at SummerSlam.