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Forums - Sports Discussion - The Pro Wrasslin' Thread (WWE, WWF, WCW, TNA, ROH, NWA, NJPW, etc)

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What match are you excited for at WWE Payback 2017?

Neville vs. Austin Aries ... 1 6.67%
 
Randy Orton vs. Bray Wyat... 3 20.00%
 
The Hardy Boyz vs. Cesaro... 2 13.33%
 
Kevin Owens vs. Chris Jer... 3 20.00%
 
Bayley vs. Alexa Bliss (Raw Women's Title) 3 20.00%
 
Seth Rollins vs. Samoa Joe 1 6.67%
 
Roman Reigns vs. Braun Strowman 2 13.33%
 
Total:15

Man, this is so freaking awesome!

Owen's legacy is alive and well!



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Full match top, or get the highlights bottom:


Also, Cody Rhodes after getting booed in New York City at 2:20 (Probably don't watch if you haven't seen The Boys and plan to)



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Actually moderately excited for extreme rules tonight. The card isn't amazing on paper, but WWE definitely seems to be in a "shit we need to do something" mode, largely, I think, due to the return of the NFL. I think there's a reasonable chance Balor might win; enough at least to get me invested in the match. I'm also surprisingly excited for Alexa vs Charlotte, as they finally seem to be getting a handle on how to use that character (i.e. she's crazy, not she has superhuman powers). The card is a bit thin otherwise. Big E's absence is notable, but I think they probably want to hype his first defense more. Should be a perfectly pleasant way to spend a Sunday evening.



Yeah, there’s no way in hell Balor is winning. Especially not when Roman and Brock at Crown Jewel is around the corner. Maybe they do something where Brock gets involved and screws over Balor, so that the Demon is protected. But taking the title off Roman NOW would be a huge freaking mistake. They’ll have a great match, but the outcome should not be in doubt.



PAOerfulone said:

Yeah, there’s no way in hell Balor is winning. Especially not when Roman and Brock at Crown Jewel is around the corner. Maybe they do something where Brock gets involved and screws over Balor, so that the Demon is protected. But taking the title off Roman NOW would be a huge freaking mistake. They’ll have a great match, but the outcome should not be in doubt.

Well, no use arguing about it now. I thought that maybe Brock vs Roman was big enough that it didn't need the title. The ending of the match was silly, but it did the job of making me believe for a bit that Finn was going to win. Keeps Finn looking strong, and hopefully they'll continue another time.

Overall fun show. Wasn't the greatest thing I've ever seen, but a decent use of 10 bucks and 3 hours. Most of the feuds were just starting out, so the objective was to leave you wanting more, and sometimes you need shows like that. Just kind of wish they didn't call it extreme rules when there was only one extreme rules match, and even that one wasn't all that extreme.



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A bit of trivia, Ilja Dragunov is the first ever non-vegan NXT UK Champion since the belt's establishment in 2016.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jeff Hardy has been released. Although, this time probably with just cause. He's been showing signs of addiction issues again, and refused rehab. I just don't think he's cut out for extended stints in WWE. He's got many years left to give so long as he doesn't wreck his body with excessive drug and alcohol use.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

One thing about pro-wrestling over the past 25 years. The moves have got WAY better, and the working conditions have also become way safer. This is something hard to appreciate, how in the 80s and 90s people would botch power bombs and chair shots, they’d shorten careers. Nowadays you have guys like Jack Evans, Sydal, and PAC who have been doing crazy shit for 20 years, and not having the career ending issues.

Of course, it’s not always the case - Lance Archer’s scary botch back in October will knock some time off. Sad too, he’s one of the meanest looking SOBs in the business, and he was going places. Not sure when he’s coming back, but hopefully they don’t rush him in the way WWE did Austin.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin said:

One thing about pro-wrestling over the past 25 years. The moves have got WAY better, and the working conditions have also become way safer. This is something hard to appreciate, how in the 80s and 90s people would botch power bombs and chair shots, they’d shorten careers. Nowadays you have guys like Jack Evans, Sydal, and PAC who have been doing crazy shit for 20 years, and not having the career ending issues.

Of course, it’s not always the case - Lance Archer’s scary botch back in October will knock some time off. Sad too, he’s one of the meanest looking SOBs in the business, and he was going places. Not sure when he’s coming back, but hopefully they don’t rush him in the way WWE did Austin.

I would disagree with conditions being safer. Aside from being smarter about head trauma (most of the time), which is a big plus, they're really not. The problem is guys like Sydal and Pac (not sure how Jack Evans got on that list cause he fucks up on the reg) can do high flying moves well and regularly, and people who can't do it try to match them because they feel they have to. Lance Archer is one example. Red Velvet is another who for some reason kept trying to do a standing moonsault till she almost killed herself. Nia Jax almost killed people for years before being fired, although that was more just general incompetence. Sting, Balor, and Kairi Sane were injured by the buckle bomb which I have no idea why anyone is allowed to do. Jade Cargill didn't know how to do a sligshot but didn't let that stop her, and slung her opponent's head directly into a rope. Striking also has gotten way more snug leading to injuries. Xia Li knocked Mercedes Martinez out before she left NXT. Pac one upped her by knocking out Orange Cassidy then picking him up and powerbombing him. Nia Jax concussed Becky Lynch with a basic punch (but again she's incompetent). Alexa Bliss has had several concussions, Bryan lost years of his career to them, Punk was concussed in his last WWE match, Matt Hardy was somehow allowed to work a match after getting his head slammed into concrete... Paige had to retire before 30, Graves did, and so on so forth.

Go watch some 80's wrestling. It's 80% punching and rest holds. More exciting is debateable, but mostly safer. Most dangerous thing was a leg drop. 



JWeinCom said:
Jumpin said:

One thing about pro-wrestling over the past 25 years. The moves have got WAY better, and the working conditions have also become way safer. This is something hard to appreciate, how in the 80s and 90s people would botch power bombs and chair shots, they’d shorten careers. Nowadays you have guys like Jack Evans, Sydal, and PAC who have been doing crazy shit for 20 years, and not having the career ending issues.

Of course, it’s not always the case - Lance Archer’s scary botch back in October will knock some time off. Sad too, he’s one of the meanest looking SOBs in the business, and he was going places. Not sure when he’s coming back, but hopefully they don’t rush him in the way WWE did Austin.

I would disagree with conditions being safer. Aside from being smarter about head trauma (most of the time), which is a big plus, they're really not. The problem is guys like Sydal and Pac (not sure how Jack Evans got on that list cause he fucks up on the reg) can do high flying moves well and regularly, and people who can't do it try to match them because they feel they have to. Lance Archer is one example. Red Velvet is another who for some reason kept trying to do a standing moonsault till she almost killed herself. Nia Jax almost killed people for years before being fired, although that was more just general incompetence. Sting, Balor, and Kairi Sane were injured by the buckle bomb which I have no idea why anyone is allowed to do. Jade Cargill didn't know how to do a sligshot but didn't let that stop her, and slung her opponent's head directly into a rope. Striking also has gotten way more snug leading to injuries. Xia Li knocked Mercedes Martinez out before she left NXT. Pac one upped her by knocking out Orange Cassidy then picking him up and powerbombing him. Nia Jax concussed Becky Lynch with a basic punch (but again she's incompetent). Alexa Bliss has had several concussions, Bryan lost years of his career to them, Punk was concussed in his last WWE match, Matt Hardy was somehow allowed to work a match after getting his head slammed into concrete... Paige had to retire before 30, Graves did, and so on so forth.

Go watch some 80's wrestling. It's 80% punching and rest holds. More exciting is debateable, but mostly safer. Most dangerous thing was a leg drop. 

That's still a lower volume and less severe list of injuries that you can find back in the 80s and 90s, and realistically, probably up until the period of Benoit's death.


Dynamite and Davey Boy both suffered severe injuries that ended their careers early and caused pain killer addictions that led to early deaths.
Steve Austin broke his neck, was rushed back into action without proper rehab/surgery ending his career early.
Droz never walked again after getting his neck broken in the ring.
Chris Benoit, Kanyon, Bam Bam, Crash (and many others) all suffered head injuries that likely lead to suicidal behaviour.
Andre was incredibly crippled, and might have contributed to high stress and death.
Bret Hart had his career ended by a kick.
Owen Hart had his life ended by a stunt.

I guess the point that I'd take out of it is that it's a little surprising that injury volume and severity is down. You'd think the opposite if it were less safe. Actually, with how Lance Archer has been treated it shows a big difference in how similar type injuries were treated in the past. Archer's out for months with a neck sprain; I don't know that 90s wrestling would mandated (or even allowed) the time to rehab that.

The older days had injuries from seemingly minor moves, and they'd often throw them in a match to fake a much more serious injury; usually this was for severe joint injuries, as they didn't take head injuries or spinal injuries as seriously back then. Maybe it was lower standards about who could step in the ring, likely overworking, definitely improper rehab was an issue.

I do have that 10+ year gap between when I watched wrestling, and that's what I'm seeing at least. I could just be imagining it as I haven't looked at exshaustive lists. But I'm not hearing of wrestling dying all the time or having to retire from injuries nearly as much as before. And I think there might be more active wrestlers now than before (I'm not entirely sure on that).



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.