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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Is no 4K Bluray on PS4 Pro the biggest BS Sony pulled yet?

Machiavellian said:
LivingMetal said:

No it doesn't.  Just buy a 4k player.  Or those who have already have a collection more than likely already have a 4k player.  Don't make up false issues in an attempt to bolster your false argument.

Or just purchase the competition player which is cheaper than current players on the market.  You do know a lot of people rent movies from places like Red Box and Netflix.  For someone like myself who prefer disc over streaming, Sony pretty much make the decision easy for me which system I will be upgrading,

Xbox Slim is not an upgrade, its weaker than a normal PS4.



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Bandorr said:
kowenicki said:

Its not a bad design choice, how can it be, it saves money.  Its a good design choice... for Sony.

Thats not the issue.  The issue is Sony using its market dominance to omit it. Its a bad design choice for the consumer, there is simply no way to say otherwise and not look foolish or biased.

Sony currently look like they are saying, "ah well, you can always buy our streaming service or buy our dedicated player"

It saves money - then it isn't a bad design choice for the consumer.

You mean it is a bad design choice for the people wanting a 4K player combined with a console year this year.

I don't want a 4K blu-ray physical media player - thus it is a good design choice for me.. since it is cheaper.

You can't sweep everything under the rug as "it is bad for the consumer" when it isn't. It is bad for a select group of people. That question is how big is that select group of people.

I'd say - not very big.

I believe the case Kowenicki is trying to make is that when you have the dominate lead, the leader decide what is best for the consumer.  When you do not have the lead, you try to do everything you can to show an advantage over the leader.  In this particular case, Sony is the dominate leader so they know they will get good sells and not have to worry about affecting their other products.  Also if they can sell you their streaming service well its all upside for them.  If the landscape was more competitive you can believe their would be a UHD drive or if Sony was behind because it would be in their best interest to match their competition.  

So in this case its not a good deal for the consumer because your choice is now limited no matter if you will use the option or not.  Sony will decide what is best for you as a consumer because as long as you are happy with getting less, they are happy giving it to you.   When people say Sony is for the consumer that is only when they are behind just like any other company.  Not sure why people feel the need to defend Sony.  Its like people forget that Sony is a business and their interest may not always conincide with what is best for the consumer.



Machiavellian said:
LivingMetal said:

No it doesn't.  Just buy a 4k player.  Or those who have already have a collection more than likely already have a 4k player.  Don't make up false issues in an attempt to bolster your false argument.

Or just purchase the competition player which is cheaper than current players on the market.  You do know a lot of people rent movies from places like Red Box and Netflix.  For someone like myself who prefer disc over streaming, Sony pretty much make the decision easy for me which system I will be upgrading,

And it's another option, but Azzanation was trying to paint an illogical scenario to further his cause.  That's all.



GOWTLOZ said:
Machiavellian said:

Or just purchase the competition player which is cheaper than current players on the market.  You do know a lot of people rent movies from places like Red Box and Netflix.  For someone like myself who prefer disc over streaming, Sony pretty much make the decision easy for me which system I will be upgrading,

Xbox Slim is not an upgrade, its weaker than a normal PS4.

I have an X1, PS4 and WiiU.  So yes the X1 slim is an option especially since I have a son who just went to college and I am thinking of either giving him my old X1 and purchase a Slim.  



Bandorr said:
Machiavellian said:

I believe the case Kowenicki is trying to make is that when you have the dominate lead, the leader decide what is best for the consumer.  When you do not have the lead, you try to do everything you can to show an advantage over the leader.  In this particular case, Sony is the dominate leader so they know they will get good sells and not have to worry about affecting their other products.  Also if they can sell you their streaming service well its all upside for them.  If the landscape was more competitive you can believe their would be a UHD drive or if Sony was behind because it would be in their best interest to match their competition.  

So in this case its not a good deal for the consumer because your choice is now limited no matter if you will use the option or not.  Sony will decide what is best for you as a consumer because as long as you are happy with getting less, they are happy giving it to you.   When people say Sony is for the consumer that is only when they are behind just like any other company.  Not sure why people feel the need to defend Sony.  Its like people forget that Sony is a business and their interest may not always conincide with what is best for the consumer.

Your choice isn't actually limited though. Actually I think there are MORE choices now. Want a console? Get a console. Want a media player? Get a media player.  As opposed to the alternative being paying more for something that is both.

Arguing that something isn't "premiuim enough" while at the same time complaining about having to spend money to buy two devices is quite likely an Oxymoron. "I wanted to spend more money, but I didn't want to spend THAT much more money".

When I say choice I mean the options within the current system I have now.  I do not want to buy another device to fill a gap in my entertainment instead I want a device I already have to fill that gap.  I really do not need another device under my TV just to play 4K UHD content.  If the pro had a UHD drive it would be a no brainer to upgrade to it but now since Sony decided to not include the drive I am thinking I can easily wait for the Scorpio and weigh my options then.  I have an X1 as well and a reason to go the slim route because I can give that to my Son and the money I would use for his birthday gift goes to a Slim.  

So I am not saying my reality is more than anyone else,  I am saying that my needs probably represent a lot of people so Sony probably lost a sell.  I really care not for platform wars and all that, I care only about my needs as a consumer being met.  Sony made a decision which doesn't work for me thus opening the door for the competition to get my money, pretty straight forward.



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Machiavellian said:
Bandorr said:

Your choice isn't actually limited though. Actually I think there are MORE choices now. Want a console? Get a console. Want a media player? Get a media player.  As opposed to the alternative being paying more for something that is both.

Arguing that something isn't "premiuim enough" while at the same time complaining about having to spend money to buy two devices is quite likely an Oxymoron. "I wanted to spend more money, but I didn't want to spend THAT much more money".

When I say choice I mean the options within the current system I have now.  I do not want to buy another device to fill a gap in my entertainment instead I want a device I already have to fill that gap.  I really do not need another device under my TV just to play 4K UHD content.  If the pro had a UHD drive it would be a no brainer to upgrade to it but now since Sony decided to not include the drive I am thinking I can easily wait for the Scorpio and weigh my options then.  I have an X1 as well and a reason to go the slim route because I can give that to my Son and the money I would use for his birthday gift goes to a Slim.  

So I am not saying my reality is more than anyone else,  I am saying that my needs probably represent a lot of people so Sony probably lost a sell.  I really care not for platform wars and all that, I care only about my needs as a consumer being met.  Sony made a decision which doesn't work for me thus opening the door for the competition to get my money, pretty straight forward.

"A lot" = relative.  I know more people with dedcated Blu-Ray players than a PS3.  So you and "a lot" of people have their preferences unlike the most of us.

Edit: Then don't buy a PS4 Pro.  Problem solved.  But since you are sooOOOooOo concerned for Sony, I'm buying a PS4 Pro.  So that should make you feel happy.



It's not a bad deal for the consumer when they can pick up a powerful console (x3) for just a $100 dollars more than the competitor.

Sorry but we all saw how TV TV TV undone MS, I don't see why Sony should have increased the console cost to justify a media which is still in its infancy. I own lots of BR disks but thats it for me, Im not paying 19-24 pounds per disk for something that isn't really going to justify it for quite a few years and I'm sure I'm not the only one. There are of course people moaning, but BR isn't even that well supported media wise, why the hell do I want yet another format for a lack of content to come out on.

On another note, when Scorpio comes out, Sony will be in a better position to under cut it even more because they didnt include this device. Its probably clear they are making profit on this console, when scorpio comes out, they'll be in even better position. Anything cut is money saved, which is money to use for a price cut. That's why imho MS went with an early reveal and specs, its because they knew pro was coming out and it's going to screw them over big time, for MS they now have to deliver a console thats very powerful, unfortunately for them that means its more costly.



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LivingMetal said:
Machiavellian said:

When I say choice I mean the options within the current system I have now.  I do not want to buy another device to fill a gap in my entertainment instead I want a device I already have to fill that gap.  I really do not need another device under my TV just to play 4K UHD content.  If the pro had a UHD drive it would be a no brainer to upgrade to it but now since Sony decided to not include the drive I am thinking I can easily wait for the Scorpio and weigh my options then.  I have an X1 as well and a reason to go the slim route because I can give that to my Son and the money I would use for his birthday gift goes to a Slim.  

So I am not saying my reality is more than anyone else,  I am saying that my needs probably represent a lot of people so Sony probably lost a sell.  I really care not for platform wars and all that, I care only about my needs as a consumer being met.  Sony made a decision which doesn't work for me thus opening the door for the competition to get my money, pretty straight forward.

"A lot" = relative.  I know more people with dedcated Blu-Ray players than a PS3.  So you and "a lot" of people have their preferences unlike the most of us.

Edit: Then don't buy a PS4 Pro.  Problem solved.  But since you are sooOOOooOo concerned for Sony, I'm buying a PS4 Pro.  So that should make you feel happy.

Everything is relative when you are giving your opinion.  The use of the word probably should suggest that I am not stating this as a fact.  I believe a lot of people do enjoy a device that meets multiple needs instead of one.  The device that meets enough of my needs at the best quality usually gets my money.

As to your edit, I think I pretty much made it clear that I am not purchasing a PS4 Pro and that I am happy to wait to see what the Scropio offer.  As I mentioned this was a miss for Sony for my situation.  Sony is the leader so they can make decisions where they do not have to match their competition.  I have no problems with that as I understand Sony is a business and thus I treat them as such.  Also I am not concerned about Sony or any other corporation.  As I stated, I am only concerned if a product meets my needs. 



Machiavellian said:
LivingMetal said:

"A lot" = relative.  I know more people with dedcated Blu-Ray players than a PS3.  So you and "a lot" of people have their preferences unlike the most of us.

Edit: Then don't buy a PS4 Pro.  Problem solved.  But since you are sooOOOooOo concerned for Sony, I'm buying a PS4 Pro.  So that should make you feel happy.

Everything is relative when you are giving your opinion.  The use of the word probably should suggest that I am not stating this as a fact.  I believe a lot of people do enjoy a device that meets multiple needs instead of one.  The device that meets enough of my needs at the best quality usually gets my money.

As to your edit, I think I pretty much made it clear that I am not purchasing a PS4 Pro and that I am happy to wait to see what the Scropio offer.  As I mentioned this was a miss for Sony for my situation.  Sony is the leader so they can make decisions where they do not have to match their competition.  I have no problems with that as I understand Sony is a business and thus I treat them as such.  Also I am not concerned about Sony or any other corporation.  As I stated, I am only concerned if a product meets my needs. 

Then stop trying to justify yourself to others.



Bandorr said:

And I won't want to spend more money for a device I don't currently want. It costing something like more would be a decision that wouldn't work for me.  That is also pretty straight forward.

Where as last generation not having a blu-ray player cost Xbox game(s), and ment they had many, many disks. They could be a blu-ray player - but they could never get something that would let them play those games.

I'm not missing out on anything now that I can't get later. If I want a media player later - I can get one later. I can upgrade my xbox one to an xbox one slim later.

I do not remember not having a Blu ray costing the 360 games.  Exactly what games cost the 360 for not having the player.  If anything you just needed to swap a disk.

As for myself, I have a 4K UHD TV.  I pretty much assumed Sony would include the UHD in the pro so I was prepared to upgrade but now with that decision, well I can wait to see what the Scropio can offer.  My TV already can stream 4K content from Netflix, Amazon VUDU and a host of other apps it supports so really do not need the PS4 Pro for that.  The one missing piece was the drive so I can either rent or buy.  The point is, with a year head start, Sony probably could have wrapped up people who have a 4K UHD TV and people who are getting one in the near term.  Promoting your device as a 4K TV option but limiting its ability no matter how you spin it is disappointing.  It would be different if Sony event just promoted games and then said as an add on we can do some 4K stuff as well but that is not how it went down.  Either way, I am not blaming Sony or anything, just stating that they miss an opportunity and there are a lot of people who are disappointed