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Forums - Nintendo - Nintendo Says It’s Looking To Appeal To Both Causal And Core Gamers With NX

Dunban67 said:
zorg1000 said:

Of course they can appeal to both. There is a large middle ground between simplistic, casual, freemium titles and complex, hardcore, AAA titles.

Games that find a balance between those the spectrums have the potential to appeal to both sides. Some of Nintendo's most successful franchises are this middle ground, "casual-core" style.

I would say that Pokemon, Super Mario, Animal Crossing, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Splatoon, fit into this group of games that are simplistic and casual enough to be accessible by most people while also having the complexity, depth & competitiveness to appeal to more experienced players.

like i said - you can t appeal to both equally-  Nintendo and any consumer company wants to sell to as big a base as possible but by default the more you appeal to one side of the spectrum the less you appeal to the other-   ex  higher specs higher price and a lineup of games oriented more to LOZ and Metroid will sell to one side of the spectrum-  a lower price and lower specs with games more oriented to Animal crossing and Mario party will appeal more to the other side of the spectrum-   

That's kind of the gripe I have ... this whole "now we're going to make a system that appeals to everyone including novice/casual/mom (whatever term you want to use)" strategy is basically really means: "We're going to make a casual/beginner style console, and don't you dare complain, just shut up and accept it if you're a Nintendo fan because we're still giving you Zelda and Mario, and maybe if you're realy nice and we feel like it we'll fart out a Metroid.". Experienced gamers are asked to make *all* the sacrifices in this supposed "marriage of casual and experienced" hardware philosphy:

1.) Remember how the NES, SNES, N64, and GameCube were all large hardware leaps in line with the other systems of the time ... well too bad. Now you have to accept hardware that's 1+ generation behind the other game systems on the market and is basically outdated on day 1. OK so no competently specced Nintendo hardware is in the past. 

2.) You still should pay full price though, the "cheap" Wii was $250 for the longest time, meaning people who bought the GameCube which was $99 by 2003, in 2006-2009 basically paid $250 for the same hardware moderately overclocked with a $20 plastic new controller thrown in to justify the difference in price. OK, so we want the outdated hardware, but you still gotta pay out the ass for it. 

3.) What aspect of the Wii or Wii U were really made with "core" players in mind? The terrible online setup? The "fridge" miniscule flash memory on the Wii that Nintendo refused to update for several years? Being stuck with SD graphics for 6 years longer than Sony/MS players? Oh, I guess Nintendo was kind enough to give us a Classic Controller. OK, so we get token throw ins. 

4.) Hope you like the same 10-12 Nintendo franchises .... and basically only Nintendo games because we're going to gimp our hardware so that third parties don't take it seriously. So basically Nintendo fans have been forced now to have to pay an extra $300-$400 to purchase a Playstation or XBox or gaming PC to get access to the top tier non-Nintendo gaming content basically. OK, so don't like any major third party games I guess. 

5.) B... bu ... but innovation! Wii and Wii U were so innovative! Really? Which "core" Nintendo IP really used the Wiimote centrally? Metroid Prime 3 and uh ... waiting five years for Skyward Sword controls that really no one is upset about not having back. Wii U touch screen that could have been used for a more powerful chipset instead ... uh ... we got maybe 1 game that really used it in a great way (Mario Maker) in 4 years. Pfffft. The NES, SNES, N64 had plenty of controller/control innovations without the trade offs. 

That's just my issue with it all. "Experienced" Nintendo gamers are expected to basically sacrifice any type of reasonably up to date hardware, kiss any chance of any good-to-great developer support (because apparently we should only play Nintendo games), so that "non-gaming housewife" can have a cute little console that doesn't make too much noise and doesn't look all threatening to her. 

I wouldn't have an issue with Nintendo pursuing a wider audience ... sure, great go for it, but why does it have to come completely at the expense of what "experienced" gamers want? It doesn't look to me like the casual/beginner audience is being asked to make any sacrifices. Wii U had a poor chipset because casuals don't care about graphics, no HDD because casuals don't care about storage, an expensive touch panel for casuals, came with Nintendo Land and NSMBU because casuals will love that ... but hey we got two analog sticks! Oh yippie, what a fair trade off. I'd have no problem with this strategy if it was sincerely *balanced* to meet the needs of both audiences in an honest way, not bending one section of the fan base and expecting them to sacrifice on several fronts so Nintendo can chase the next casual golden ticket. 

If you're going to make a console for "everyone" then make a console that is legitimately for everyone. Not one that has every major design decision made for casual/inexperienced players first and foremost, and the answer to experienced/core players being "well we're giving you Zelda aren't we? Just shut up and buy it already". 



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AlfredoTurkey said:
AZWification said:


Nintendo tried doing that with the WiiU and it didn't turn all that well. We'll see soon enough if that the NX will do better in that regard.

Nintendo has tried doing that since the NES. Sometimes it works, other times it doesn't. It all depends on marketing and deciding which type of software they want to put out in front to the public. 

You're right, but they only started emphasizing the whole "core vs casual" thing with the WiiU if I'm not mistaken.



                
       ---Member of the official Squeezol Fanclub---

There is still hope with the NX if it becomes a very fashionable product like wii or typical Apple products. If the product comes to market visually pleasing and trendy then they can create a userbase from that. The wii was more than the sum of its parts and so perhaps maybe the NX.

I think we all know instinctively that the NX will be truly awful for multiformat ports and few will buy them if they do make them. Exclusive NX core games will have lowish sales because the userbase will be quite small with a low number of core gamers.

When I bought my wii u at first I tried to convince myself it was a capable system but reality hit home when even games like Call of Duty had worse frame rates than 360 and PS3 and missing detail too all at the same resolution. Add to injury using the gamepad was a real pain compared to 360 and ps3 and the final nail in the coffin was the huge load times due to lack of hard drive. It's going to be pretty much the same with NX compared to ps4 and xbone. Missing detail, horrible controller, inferior frame rates, lower resolution and probably slower load times due to high compression used to get games on small cartridges. You can only really justify buying Nintendo hardware normally for Nintendo games and I have a wii u already for Zelda U so don't need NX for that.

So this core gamer argument is unlikely due to hardware and userbase.

I think there is a possibility that Nintendo will cancel the NX altogether if the reveal shows general apathy towards it.

If its anything like the eurogamer info and doesn't have an amazing trick up its sleeve its probably dead on arrival.



JRPGfan said:
Forget the casuals, just aim at getting the people that want to game.

Most of people that want to game are already on XB1/PS4, Nintendo will also try to target people that dont know they want to play consoles. :D



Soundwave said:
Dunban67 said:

like i said - you can t appeal to both equally-  Nintendo and any consumer company wants to sell to as big a base as possible but by default the more you appeal to one side of the spectrum the less you appeal to the other-   ex  higher specs higher price and a lineup of games oriented more to LOZ and Metroid will sell to one side of the spectrum-  a lower price and lower specs with games more oriented to Animal crossing and Mario party will appeal more to the other side of the spectrum-   

That's kind of the gripe I have ... this whole "now we're going to make a system that appeals to everyone including novice/casual/mom (whatever term you want to use)" strategy is basically really means: "We're going to make a casual/beginner style console, and don't you dare complain, just shut up and accept it if you're a Nintendo fan because we're still giving you Zelda and Mario, and maybe if you're realy nice and we feel like it we'll fart out a Metroid.". Experienced gamers are asked to make *all* the sacrifices in this supposed "marriage of casual and experienced" hardware philosphy:

1.) Remember how the NES, SNES, N64, and GameCube were all large hardware leaps in line with the other systems of the time ... well too bad. Now you have to accept hardware that's 1+ generation behind the other game systems on the market and is basically outdated on day 1. OK so no competently specced Nintendo hardware is in the past. 

2.) You still should pay full price though, the "cheap" Wii was $250 for the longest time, meaning people who bought the GameCube which was $99 by 2003, in 2006-2009 basically paid $250 for the same hardware moderately overclocked with a $20 plastic new controller thrown in to justify the difference in price. OK, so we want the outdated hardware, but you still gotta pay out the ass for it. 

3.) What aspect of the Wii or Wii U were really made with "core" players in mind? The terrible online setup? The "fridge" miniscule flash memory on the Wii that Nintendo refused to update for several years? Being stuck with SD graphics for 6 years longer than Sony/MS players? Oh, I guess Nintendo was kind enough to give us a Classic Controller. OK, so we get token throw ins. 

4.) Hope you like the same 10-12 Nintendo franchises .... and basically only Nintendo games because we're going to gimp our hardware so that third parties don't take it seriously. So basically Nintendo fans have been forced now to have to pay an extra $300-$400 to purchase a Playstation or XBox or gaming PC to get access to the top tier non-Nintendo gaming content basically. OK, so don't like any major third party games I guess. 

5.) B... bu ... but innovation! Wii and Wii U were so innovative! Really? Which "core" Nintendo IP really used the Wiimote centrally? Metroid Prime 3 and uh ... waiting five years for Skyward Sword controls that really no one is upset about not having back. Wii U touch screen that could have been used for a more powerful chipset instead ... uh ... we got maybe 1 game that really used it in a great way (Mario Maker) in 4 years. Pfffft. The NES, SNES, N64 had plenty of controller/control innovations without the trade offs. 

That's just my issue with it all. "Experienced" Nintendo gamers are expected to basically sacrifice any type of reasonably up to date hardware, kiss any chance of any good-to-great developer support (because apparently we should only play Nintendo games), so that "non-gaming housewife" can have a cute little console that doesn't make too much noise and doesn't look all threatening to her. 

I wouldn't have an issue with Nintendo pursuing a wider audience ... sure, great go for it, but why does it have to come completely at the expense of what "experienced" gamers want? It doesn't look to me like the casual/beginner audience is being asked to make any sacrifices. Wii U had a poor chipset because casuals don't care about graphics, no HDD because casuals don't care about storage, an expensive touch panel for casuals, came with Nintendo Land and NSMBU because casuals will love that ... but hey we got two analog sticks! Oh yippie, what a fair trade off. I'd have no problem with this strategy if it was sincerely *balanced* to meet the needs of both audiences in an honest way, not bending one section of the fan base and expecting them to sacrifice on several fronts so Nintendo can chase the next casual golden ticket. 

If you're going to make a console for "everyone" then make a console that is legitimately for everyone. Not one that has every major design decision made for casual/inexperienced players first and foremost, and the answer to experienced/core players being "well we're giving you Zelda aren't we? Just shut up and buy it already". 

You are perhaps the most inconsistent person on this site, for weeks/months you have been talking about how its redundant for Nintendo to make a PS/XB clone and they should be different, now you're saying essentially the opposite.

This myth that Wii didnt have software aimed at "core" gamers needs to stop. It had Zelda, Metroid, Tony Hawk, Spider Man, Prince of Persia, Mortal Kombat, Crystal Chronicles, MLB 2K, One Piece, Dead Rising, Need for Speed, Dragon Ball Z, Trauma Center, Little King's Story, Harvest Moon, Resident Evil, Bleach, SSX, Marvel Ultimate Alliance, Pandora's Tower, Battalion Wars, WWE, NBA 2K, Tiger Woods, Dirt, Cabela, Rune Factory, No More Heroes, Spore, Sims, Zack & Wiki, Nights, Medal of Honor, Sin & Punishment, Samurai Warriors, PES, Tomb Raider, Silent Hill, Dead Space, Madden, Fire Emblem, Bully, GT Pro Series, Tales of Symphonia, Manhunt, Tatsunoko vs Capcom, Rayman, Conduit, Muramasa, Okami, Red Steel, 007, The Last Story, Dragon Quest, FIFA, Star Wars, MadWorld, House of the Dead, Endless Ocean, Call of Duty, F1, Xenoblade, Sonic, Monster Hunter, Fatal Frame.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

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Uh huh, we'll see...



"Just for comparison Uncharted 4 was 20x bigger than Splatoon 2. This shows the huge difference between Sony's first-party games and Nintendo's first-party games."

It either needs to be priced attractively or be a powerhouse. Or both. And have good 5GHz Wi-Fi.



Heres the simplest way to appeal to both markets:

-make the console powerful enough to play AAA third party games.
-make whatever casual games you want

i mean is it that hard to comprehend?



The problem with the casual crowd is that they drop something as soon as the next fad comes along. The Wii is the best evidence of this.

Meaning big initial sales, followed by a sharp drop-off in interest.



PrincessPeach said:
The problem with the casual crowd is that they drop something as soon as the next fad comes along. The Wii is the best evidence of this.

Meaning big initial sales, followed by a sharp drop-off in interest.

The myth is that it was the "casual" crowd that made the Wii a success; and later dropped it.  The problem was in the product itself.  Both new and experienced gamers flocked to Wii, but they also all later dropped it because the experience was not sustaining.  Everyone loved the awe of the motion controls, the Virtual library, and the AAA first party titles like SMG and Zelda.  But the lack of HD and AAA third party meant that gamers looked for new experiences elsewhere.  If Wii supported these features and games, or if it had a successor that did around 2010, its fate might have been different.