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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Microsoft: We Think The Future Is Without Console Generations

KBG29 said:
Chazore said:

I don't know why you need them to. You already have a choice between WIndows, Linux and Mac OS's for laptops and desktop computers, Apple Tablets as well as Android and of course MS ones as well.

I don't want to have 3 or 4 different OS's for my computing needs.  As a consumer I want all of my tech to talk,  and I want all of my purchased software to work whether I am using a stationary home device,  a large portable,  a phone,  or vr/AR. 

 

Microsoft is already heading in this direction with UWA,  and I think it is the greatest thing in the world. It is absolutely illogical to have an Xbox,  an Android,  a Mac,  and a Sony TV.  People that fracture the market like this are just making life harder for themselves and everyone else.  

 

If Apple fans buy only apple devices and Sony fans Sony device and so on and so forth,  then that will make the market so much stronger. Furthermore having the same tech in your Home Computer,  You Laptop/Tablet,  your Phone,  and your VR/AR devices makes development a dream,  and results in much higher quality software. 

 

This is why we need a Playstation and Xbox line of phones and laptop/tablets.  We need cohesive ecosystems,  and we need options that are built around make world class gaming and entertainment experiences. 

 

While "cohesive systems" may promote innovation for cross-device talk, there still needs to be an element of standardisation, or else people would be doomed to buy only one brand once they've put enough commitment into it. Imagine how it would be if you wanted to change platforms? You'd have to replace very electronic device in your life to maintain the old status quo.



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There's multiple ways that this could be fulfilled. Let's not just consider that everything will be cloud based as the only option. There's also steam-like servicing on already established hardware, or a cycle similar to phones, where a new iteration of hardware comes out each year, which guarantees, for instance, 5 years worth of development for it. This way, there's no jumping in during the middle of a console generation. you're guaranteed 5 years, given the gradual annual transition.



 

Pemalite said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

That is a hilariously huge waste of money. 

What is your source for that 180 million number? Anybody with a potato of a computer, and three dollars can suddenly become an "active" steam member. How many of those supposid 180 million actually drop real money on games? 



What I do with my money is not only not your concern, it's also none of your business. - But I do more than just play games.

As for the rest, why don't you look at the Steam statistics for yourself? Everything is in black and white for you to form your own opinion. (Which you seem to have already made without looking at it anyway.)

Not to mention that Steam users are just a part, although quite large, of all PC gamers. When Windows XP reached 1B user base, gamers, including the most casuals, were already estimated to be  ~300M, of which ~100M core gamers. And this was before Steam boosted PC gaming again to golden age percentages, but on a total user base much larger. Just a large minority of PC gamers are power and graphics whores, the majority totally upgrades PCs roughly at console generation time intervals, if not longer, possibly with minor upgrades in between, so the sales of new PCs have dropped, but people, including gamers, keep their PCs longer, so PC user base, and PC gaming one too, still grow steadily, alhough slower than mobile ones.
Just to be clearer, on PC there are TWO kinds of hardcore gamers, those that look for technical excellence and those that like complex and deep classic PC games, and there can be overlapping of the two groups. "Complexity whores" that aren't power whores too will upgrade their PCs just when really needed, but they are nevertheless big buyers of games.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


Welp, I guess they also think the future is without smartphones :P



Alby_da_Wolf said:

 

Pemalite said:

What I do with my money is not only not your concern, it's also none of your business. - But I do more than just play games.

As for the rest, why don't you look at the Steam statistics for yourself? Everything is in black and white for you to form your own opinion. (Which you seem to have already made without looking at it anyway.)

Not to mention that Steam users are just a part, although quite large, of all PC gamers. When Windows XP reached 1B user base, gamers, including the most casuals, were already estimated to be  ~300M, of which ~100M core gamers. And this was before Steam boosted PC gaming again to golden age percentages, but on a total user base much larger. Just a large minority of PC gamers are power and graphics whores, the majority totally upgrades PCs roughly at console generation time intervals, if not longer, possibly with minor upgrades in between, so the sales of new PCs have dropped, but people, including gamers, keep their PCs longer, so PC user base, and PC gaming one too, still grow steadily, alhough slower than mobile ones.
Just to be clearer, on PC there are TWO kinds of hardcore gamers, those that look for technical excellence and those that like complex and deep classic PC games, and there can be overlapping of the two groups. "Complexity whores" that aren't power whores too will upgrade their PCs just when really needed, but they are nevertheless big buyers of games.

Yeah, I looked at the steam stats, and that's the gist of what I got out of it. There are a lot of questions that I have though. How does steam gather its information? Do they just take a snapshot of everyone that is online every friday? Do they survey the entire group or just part of it? If someone didn't log into steam on the day the survey was taken does that mean that they are not part of the survey? If the average CPU speed is 3 gigahertz, and the average user has three physical CPUs does that mean the average user has 9 gigahertz total, or just 3? Or to put it another way, do they include both CPUs in CPU speed, when doing the CPU speed section of the survey? 

It really would be interesting if VGchartz tracked the sales of PC games, as well as console games. Do they? Does steam track the sales figures? 



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I think Sony agrees with them



Platinums: Red Dead Redemption, Killzone 2, LittleBigPlanet, Terminator Salvation, Uncharted 1, inFamous Second Son, Rocket League

Cerebralbore101 said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

 

Not to mention that Steam users are just a part, although quite large, of all PC gamers. When Windows XP reached 1B user base, gamers, including the most casuals, were already estimated to be  ~300M, of which ~100M core gamers. And this was before Steam boosted PC gaming again to golden age percentages, but on a total user base much larger. Just a large minority of PC gamers are power and graphics whores, the majority totally upgrades PCs roughly at console generation time intervals, if not longer, possibly with minor upgrades in between, so the sales of new PCs have dropped, but people, including gamers, keep their PCs longer, so PC user base, and PC gaming one too, still grow steadily, alhough slower than mobile ones.
Just to be clearer, on PC there are TWO kinds of hardcore gamers, those that look for technical excellence and those that like complex and deep classic PC games, and there can be overlapping of the two groups. "Complexity whores" that aren't power whores too will upgrade their PCs just when really needed, but they are nevertheless big buyers of games.

Yeah, I looked at the steam stats, and that's the gist of what I got out of it. There are a lot of questions that I have though. How does steam gather its information? Do they just take a snapshot of everyone that is online every friday? Do they survey the entire group or just part of it? If someone didn't log into steam on the day the survey was taken does that mean that they are not part of the survey? If the average CPU speed is 3 gigahertz, and the average user has three physical CPUs does that mean the average user has 9 gigahertz total, or just 3? Or to put it another way, do they include both CPUs in CPU speed, when doing the CPU speed section of the survey? 

It really would be interesting if VGchartz tracked the sales of PC games, as well as console games. Do they? Does steam track the sales figures? 

Steam tracking is almost surely the widest partial tracking available of PC gamers, but I'd lie if I told I understand well their results, one thing that strikes me is that AMD GPU numbers look a little underestimated, but another thing that initially struck not just me, is that Steam statistics showed that older PCs remain active in gaming much longer than tech enthusiasts suspected (I too initially thought relatively old and slow PCs were mainly stuff for retrogamers like me, but they are far more widespread), and they are the ones that allow PC gaming to grow even with lower purchases of new PCs.
The true power of gaming PCs is quite nebulous indeed, and I suspect the average is, again, lower than expected by a minority of enthusiasts that would like PC power to continuously skyrocket. Now these things aren't really surprising anymore, but initially, when Steam numbers started becoming more significant in PC gaming, they were so.  OTOH I don't think SW houses were taken by surprise, as PC/console multiplats became very common during 7th gen, when the gap between the average gaming PC and consoles was a lot wider, particularly in main RAM size, while now, compared to then, even if consoles are far behind high-end PCs, they are a lot less limiting if compared to the average PC.
About SW sales, well, even Steam cannot represent reality well enough, as didital download is becoming very strong in large towns and all the areas with fast connections, but most of the world still has slow connections and digital download is very weak there, particularly for PC games, that can be tens or even hundreds times larger than mobile games.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


Cerebralbore101 said:

Yeah, I looked at the steam stats, and that's the gist of what I got out of it. There are a lot of questions that I have though. How does steam gather its information? Do they just take a snapshot of everyone that is online every friday? Do they survey the entire group or just part of it?figures? 

Steam will send out a prompt for you to "OK" to ask if it can collect your hardware specifications.

It's a fairly large sampling size... But it doesn't ask everyone and nor does it need to. I have been asked about half a dozen times in the last decade or so... And with the power of mathematics it is used to represent the entire population and is fairly accurate all told, which is why you don't see stupidly massive swings between old and new hardware everytime they gather statistics.


Cerebralbore101 said:

If the average CPU speed is 3 gigahertz, and the average user has three physical CPUs does that mean the average user has 9 gigahertz total, or just 3? Or to put it another way, do they include both CPUs in CPU speed, when doing the CPU speed section of the survey?  It really would be interesting if VGchartz tracked the sales of PC games, as well as console games. Do they? Does steam track the sales


No. It means they have a 3Ghz Tri-Core, which is an AMD CPU as Intel never sold a CPU in such a configuration.
Also interesting to note is most of those chips would unlock into full quad-cores by enabling Advanced Clock Calibration.

Steam does track the sales, but they don't generally give that information out, they leave that up to the Developer/Publisher, sometimes we can use player numbers to extrapolate an guestimate though.

Alby_da_Wolf said:

but another thing that initially struck not just me, is that Steam statistics showed that older PCs remain active in gaming much longer than tech enthusiasts suspected (I too initially thought relatively old and slow PCs were mainly stuff for retrogamers like me, but they are far more widespread), and they are the ones that allow PC gaming to grow even with lower purchases of new PCs.

Most games can be downscaled surprisingly well and most older PC's are actually pretty potent and can run games with a few settings disabled, hardware/tech has stagnated for a long time.
Not to mention most older PC's just need a GPU upgrade and they are up and gaming again.

Alby_da_Wolf said:

The true power of gaming PCs is quite nebulous indeed, and I suspect the average is, again, lower than expected by a minority of enthusiasts that would like PC power to continuously skyrocket. Now these things aren't really surprising anymore, but initially, when Steam numbers started becoming more significant in PC gaming, they were so.  OTOH I don't think SW houses were taken by surprise, as PC/console multiplats became very common during 7th gen, when the gap between the average gaming PC and consoles was a lot wider, particularly in main RAM size, while now, compared to then, even if consoles are far behind high-end PCs, they are a lot less limiting if compared to the average PC.


Actually Steam probably under-represents the true power of PC hardware... Why? It doesn't account for Multi-GPU configurations, there are old systems from half a decade ago with Dual Radeon 5870's that are probably still outbenching newer PC's.

Or if you have Enduro/Optimus based rig Steam statistics will not count your discreet GPU but the GPU that is active, which is often the integrated part.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Soooooooo, if the average steam user has a processing speed of 3ghz, then doesn't that mean your average steam user is running with the processing power of a PS3?



Cerebralbore101 said:
Soooooooo, if the average steam user has a processing speed of 3ghz, then doesn't that mean your average steam user is running with the processing power of a PS3?

Uh. You know how CPU's work right?

Jaguar in the PS4 despite it's 1.6Ghz clockspeed is vastly superior to the 3ghz Cell.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--