I am not 100% sure but their was no game that worked on ps2 slim that didn't work on the fat version. I expect it to be different with Neo and scorpio, yes sony and ms may promise that it is not going to happen but if a big third party game can only release on Neo and Scorpio you think they will say 'don't release it on our platform'? So if those game come like a possible exclusive from a third party on neo is it a new generation or not? Why not? When Neo 2/Scorpio 2 releases it is not going to be important how much that console sells but how big the ecosystem is, if you can release a game especially indies that work also on a PS4/neo you have a big ecosystem to release that game on instead of making different versions like FIFA 17 will be different version on PS3 and PS4.

No PS5 = bullshit that is the same when people talked about the first Neo rumours, it is bullshit and PS4 is selling like hotcakes their is no sense in doing it...now we all just accepted thatit became true.  What is exactly the benefit of releasing a PS5 instead of Neo 2? 

I see this all more like buying a new pc that gives me the ability to play games that I couldn't before and play some older games in higher resolution and better FPS but I certainly don't call it a new generation. The idea that with a new console generation games I can not play any % of those games on my older system is 'hopefully' dissapearing, I see it as a positive thing for developpers, I see it as a positive thing for gamers and because sony and MS make the most money in their ecosystem they will see benefits.

There are going to be NO games that only work on the Neo.  Sony is launching this as an upgrade to the PS4.  Same games, only difference is that they will have Neo modes on future titles that will take advantage of the HW.  This will ONLY be for people who wish to have the better HW for graphics or slightly smoother framerates.  Those who are fine with the OG PS4, with its weaker HW, it will still be there and for cheaper price.  Point is, its still part of the same family and that family will not be supported forever.  I imagine this is how the console gens will go forward from now on.  There WILL be a gen shift every 5-6 years, BUT there will be a mid gen upgrade, as well. 

Also, the Neo is most likely not going to be called the Neo.  I wouldn't be surprised if it was called the PS4K or PS4 Plus in the end.  The changing of names and/or console families every gen is designed to help the average consumer.  You see, for guys who are diehard into the gaming community and follow all the news on gaming, we would be able to know everything about a console coming out.  Every game that supports which platform.  However, the average consumer will be confused by a generationless market.  It will cause more hassles for stores to have to explain the different consoles and games that may or may not work on them.  This is something Sony DOES NOT want.  They want it as simple as possible.

And MS can talk all the BS they want, but in the end, they hold no cards to play.  Sony is the one leading this gen and by A LOT.  And they will most likely continue to lead in the home console market.  They get to choose how things play out.  Just look at how MS had to change their console policies so much because of what Sony was doing.  No cards.

Shadow is right per usual.

PS4 is a monster
X1 is healthy in US/UK, and failed to gain anything more than a token presence in most other countries
WiiU = GC more or less :/

Future = stasis on those fronts, outside of Nintendo, who could do worse, the same, or better depending on how things shake out. I've always felt that it's VERY VERY hard for the marketplace to support three successful home consoles at a time.

And PC gaming is steadily rising. It gets cheaper and better all the time, and it's news when a AAA mulitplatform title DOESN'T get a PC release these days (Destiny 1), rather than the other way around like in Gen7. Microsoft bringing their premiere Xbox franchises to PC has solidified that, and Sony has gone the same way, signing for 'console exclusive' deals on thins like SFV, NMS, etc.

Don't misconstrue what I'm saying though, I don't believe that PC gaming increasing is harming console sales at all, it's simply broadening the market. The biggest Youtube and social media gamers are either PC-centric or play a mixture of PC and Console, and that's not something to underestimate.

We should all be happy that the industry as a whole are doing quite well, even if the adjustments to the new reality at some studios is taking time. We need more games in the AA space imho. And companies need to have some common sense about exclusivity and release date tactics. RoTTR was a masterclass on how NOT to deal with any of those elements.

But that would be the end of generations. It's like on PC. I can buy a GPU now and it will run games for years. After some time, it won't be able to play new games even on the lower specs. So I have to buy a new one.

We could push MS idea further making the gaming platform upgrade-when-you-want-or-need not only in HW, but in SW too, getting rid of Windows altogether. SteamOS is a good example, but it could be refined and made less dependent on a single SW house, while Android, that has the same problem, is the most widespread, but it would need greater efficiency to run large games in a satisfactory way.
Surely MS idea has its pros and cons, one possibly negative side effect is that it blurs the difference between PC and console so much that it risks killing the latter, another is that Windows limits the possible benefits, as it's totally controlled by MS, and this is the real purpose of every MS idea, total control, but if we totally remove this not so hidden agenda, this idea can improve a lot.

This is right on the money. The days on the console market dragging its feet are over. This does not mean you can't buy a device and have it supported for 10 years, it just means we will have options and revised consoles on either a yearly or bi-yearly rate. 

I have been saying for a while that Neo will not be the only revision of the PS4. Tech that could make a true generational leap over PS4 and XBO won't be in the sub $500 territory until about 2024. So we will definitly see another PS4 revision around 2020 with more RAM, a faster APU, and a larger base hard drive. 

We won't see a point when the OG PS4 gets put to rest until Sony can deliver a system with 128GB of HBM RAM, a 10TB SSD, and a 40TF APU. Until then we will just see something like;

PS4 = 720p/1080p @ 30/60fps

PS4 Spec 2 = 1080p/1440p @ 30/60fps

PS4 Spec 3 =  1440p/2160p @ 30/60fps

By the time PS4 Spec 3 enters the market most PS4 games will have fell to 720p @ 30/60fps. When the PS5 finally arrives PS4 will no longer be capable of delivering a quality experience. At this point what we know as Neo will be relegated to the role of 720p to 900p, and the PS4 Spec 3 will be 1080p to 1440p, and the OG PS4 will finally loose support for new software. Sony and 3rd parties will continue to release games that work on PS4, however, they will have missing features, lower player counts, and many drawback compared to their PS5 counterpart. The positive thing is, your purchase will just be a PlayStation game. So if you buy a game for your Neo it will Play on the PS4 API and render at say 900p/30fps, but if in a year or 6 months you buy a PS5, your game will then run on the new PS5 API, with enhanced features, and render at 2160p/60fps.

It will take time for people to adapt to the direction Microsoft and Sony are going, but at the end of the day, this will lead to every game and every application you own, working on all of your devices going forward. This will greatly enhance the value of your purchase, and make your money go miles further than it ever has in the past. Major hint, if you want to prepair yourself for the future and get the best value, start to transitional to an all digital library asap.

Wow what a great thread. So many excellent posts. A couple of thoughts... 

Progress isn't subjective so long as you define what the goal is. Progess: Noun 1. A movement toward a goal, or higher stage. As long as two people have the same goal in mind then progress becomes objective. Is the XB1 making progress in sales? Have you made progress towards finishing your book? These are objective questions, not subjective ones. 

Subjectivity is not a get out of jail free card for an argument. You just don't see things from a standpoint of philosophy. 

[@Soundwave] We are not going to see photo-realistic graphics ever. Artists have to create assets, and only have so much time to do so. Assuming that one day we will have photo-realistic graphics is just as dumb as assuming that one day all animation will have photo-realistic drawings. Do yourself a favor. Download a 3D modeling program and then make something. See how long it takes you to make just a bench that matches current gen graphics demands. Keep in mind that a bench doesn't animate, isn't translucent, and is very geometric. An organic character is infinitely more complex. [/@Soundwave]

The 3DS never died. The Vita was DOA. All the smartphone market did was take the ultra-casuals away from the portable market. The 3DS still gets four to five high profile releases every year. If consumers can't see that, then Nintendo has a serious marketing problem. Also the 3DS still sells just as much as the XB1 and sometimes more. 

From 2002 to 2010 I loved Microsoft and seriously appreciated their contribution to the industry. I still do and still think that those years were crucial for the industry as a whole. The entire industry owes a lot to MS. But...

This move is complete suicide. They are just trying to milk their core base for more money, instead of increasing the number of customers that they actually have. Let's sell a new upgraded unit to the same guys every year instead of attempting to gain new customers. And in trying to sell a new upgraded unit every year we will just alienate what little customerbase we have. Every year a few more people will quit being customers and eventually the entire Xbox brand will just die out. Kind of like what is happening to Nintendo, but at a much faster pace. 

Greenburg wouldn't be talking about this if the Xbone was selling on par with the PS4.

I'm sorry but if the next Microsoft console is 5 times the performance of their last one, that is next gen! Regardless of backwards/forwards compatibility, regardless of what they say.

But a 4.5 times more powerfull console it is not a next generation? 

Even so, the company has yet to divulge Project Scorpio’s specs in full, but that hasn’t stopped Spencer from declaring the system to be 4.5 times more powerful than the original Xbox One.