Soundwave said:
My guess is a Pascal Tegra X2 based custom chip that's in the range of 700 GFLOPS-1 TFLOP when plugged into a wall. Which for a portable would be very kick ass. My other guess is the "TV dock" that's included is basically like a "cooling bay" for the chip which cools it and lets it run at full power at home with an active fan. When it's portable, it downclocks to 300-400 GFLOPS and is passively cooled. Just a guess though.
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You don't "down clock" your Gflop's.
Nor is it a representation of the performance drop you will see either as one must assume that other parts of the chip will continue to run at the same speed.
The NX will be slower than the Xbox One by a significant margin.
Soundwave said:
To be honest a setup like this wouldn't be too bad at all
NX - Portable Mode (Running on Battery Power) = 350-400 GFLOPS, can run PS4 ports at 960x540 resolution, Wii U level+ games at 720p.
NX - Home Mode (Home Dock Actively Cools Unit) = Full 700 GF- 1 TFLOP, can run PS4 ports at 720p or 900p without much fuss.
NX - Supplemental Compute Device Mode (SCD adds second Tegra X2 processor to work in unison, doubles horsepower to 1.5 TFLOP-2 TFLOP) = Can Run games at 1080P. Optional add-on.
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Doesn't work like that.
hunter_alien said:
Soundwave said:
PSV is no where close to a PS3 power wise. It can't even run the Uncharted game that it does has (which is a large downgrade in graphics from the PS3 games) at even a native 960x540 resolution.
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Bullshit. I have Uncharted GA and Killzone Mercenaries. It puts to shame 90% of games released on the PS3. Its not quite as powerfull as a PS3, but its pretty damn close.
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Most Vita games tend to use lower quality assets and replace 3D models with 2D sprites in order to seem like it's more capable than it really is.
I haven't really seen much on the Vita that couldn't be done an the Gamecube/Wii/Original Xbox.
It does have a few technical tricks that would have been out of the league of a PS2 though, but PS3? Nowhere near it.
Soundwave said:
hunter_alien said:
Bullshit. I have Uncharted GA and Killzone Mercenaries. It puts to shame 90% of games released on the PS3. Its not quite as powerfull as a PS3, but its pretty damn close.
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If by "pretty damn close" you mean like 1/5 the power, sure. The chip inside the Vita is like 40 GFLOPS.
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Flops isn't an accurate representation of a chips capabilities.
shikamaru317 said:
Vita is around 40 gflops if I recall correctly, which is better than the 6th gen consoles. NX rumored spec is 512 gflops, a pretty huge improvement over Vita and better than PS3/360/Wii U.
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There is more to performance than flops.
The NX if it does use Tegra will likely be constrained with LPDDR4/LPDDR3, which means bandwidth wise it's going to be held back.
nVidia can help mitigate that with compression and tiled-based approaches, but it's still a physical limitation.
It will certainly be better than the last gen consoles though. Probably double to triple the capability? It's main draw card is it's shader performance, everything else is pretty mediocre.
green_sky said:
Most saying the power is too less. Am going to say it is too much. 3DS is like 5 GFlops and Vita is at 52 GFlops. What kind of battery life are they expecting on a 300-400 GFlops portable? 1-5 minutes. Battery tech and chips have improved but by that much?
Got the flops from here http://kyokojap.myweb.hinet.net/gpu_gflops/
Could be wrong. Everyone is wrong.
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What kind of flops?
Soundwave said:
FunFan said:
You know what else is between the PS3 and PS4? The XBOne.
Maybe I'm reading way too much into the comment but, why not say between PS3 and XBOne instead? Why PS4? |
I think they mean basically "in the middle" (give or take).
A PS3 is like 300 GFLOPS? A PS4 is 1.84 GFLOPS. In between is basically about 1 TFLOP.
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Even if it was 4 Teraflops. The NX would still be slower than the PS4 at 1.84 Teraflops.
Jranation said:
What happened to the rumors saying its around Xbox One power? |
It's not going to be as fast as an Xbox One. Think much less.
I think people came to that silly conclusion based on the Gflop number alone, which is... Silly.
Soundwave said:
They should just offer a SCD dock for people who are anal retentive about home performance.
400 GFLOP portable mode (540p for PS4 tier games, 720p + 60 fps for Wii U tier games)
1 TFLOP home dock mode (900p for most games)
2+ TFLOP SCD home mode (must purchase SCD seperately)
You want the extra performance, then you should be willing to pay for it.
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Doesn't work like that. How is Single Precision floating point performance even tied with resolution anyway?
The NX will not and cannot do high-resolution gaming if it uses Tegra.
Soundwave said:
Does the industry need 5 consoles trying to do the same exact thing?
Is that even healthy for the industry?
As long as this is a good sized jump from the Wii U in graphics I'll be happy, it becomes fairly hard to distinquish graphical difference once you go past Wii/PS3/360 tier graphics I find.
I mean you can create basically any kind of game scenario and have it look good at that point. To be honest a portable this powerful is honestly a bigger hardware achievement than the PS4 or XB1 (*if it indeed is this powerful*).
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Nintendo should and does need to differentiate itself from the competition.
BUT. They also need to meet various expectations so that they can attract 3rd party's, otherwise the console will just be another Wii U with mobile games.
Thuglas said:
Soundwave said:
from the sounds of it, NX while not as powerful as a PS4, can still handle direct ports, that's a pretty big difference too.
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Im sorry but im not seeing nothing that sounds like that. In fact every single aspect (at this early rumor stage) makes NX a hassle for porting current gen multiplats.
1. CPU - NX wont be x86 from the rumors. Wii U is power pc while PS4/XB1 are x86
2. GPU - even if we use the gpu raw power estimates you provided, NX is still vastly weaker than X1 and is only slightly stronger than Wii U on the portable form. Even If we assume that Nintendo adopts this scalability idea where the NX is weakest in portable mode but see an improvement when docked then add expansion ports and so on, you still need to develop the NX port for the weakest version first. Thats how it works cause it is much easier to scale a game up than down. NX ports will need to be made for the "350-400 gflop" version first which is almost as under powered as Wii U. it doesn't matter if NX has 12 tegra x3 expansion slots when docked, the dev has to make the game work on the base portable console which will be a hastle. also flops to resolution doesn't scale 1:1 like you assumed
3. RAM - the best most cutting edge mobile ram provides 32Gb/s which is less than half of Xbox one's bandwidth..... Just a reminder, XB1's low bandwidth caused a problem for many devs trying to get their games to 1080p, they needed to use the esram (at 32MB at 204 Gb/s) which still provided a struggle to get 1080p on AAA games. So not only does Nintendo need to put a TON of ram for a mobile (8 GB) they also need to find a way to improve it way beyond what samsung could do.
4. GAME SIZE - 32GB cartridges are good for a portable but with PS4/XB1 already providing devs with dual layer blu-rays that hold 48GB (50% more), devs are going to have to put in work to get their game sizes under control. you can argue that Nintendo can make the slot able to read 64 GB as well but those cartridges will cost considerably more which is probably why the rumor has Nintendo chooses 32GB. and lets face it, 3rd party devs need more than 32GB but does Nintendo really need more?
5. HDD - you will not have a HDD on a portable. flash memory cost a lot more than HDD so how much storage can nintendo afford? and anyone who played on PS4/XB1 knows that games routinely launch with large update patches that fill even a 500 GB pretty quick. The NX will have the advatage of not needing to install the game due to cartridges having faster loading BUT that doesn't solve the problem of the large post launch patches that fill your HDD. what about DLC as well? how will Nintendo handle this?
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1) Binary Translation can and will solve the CPU instruction set issue if developers don't wish to recompile, it might still hamper some porting efforts though, but overall I don't see it as much of an issue, ARM has massive industry support, certainly better than PowerPC.
2) There is more to performance than flops. Tegra is certainly a strong chip, but it cannot compete with monolithic, multi-billion transister, high-performance chips like AMD's APU's with targeted TDP's of 150w or more. If there was a generational age difference it might be possible though.
3) You can't directly compare bandwidth numbers between desktop and mobile chips like that, Mobile chips tend to render things differently to make the most use of the bandwidth it is given. - Of course it will still hold it back and it will not be capable of gaming at high resolutions.
4) Most games on the Xbox One and Playstation 4 use a stupidly large amount of their space for higher quality assets like Audio and Video, I think 32Gb carts is fine for most games, developers can use compression or smarter algorithms to optimize space use.
5) 16-32Gb of Flash should be expected as main storage and could be augmented via MicroSD. - I think it would likely be handled similar to how the current handhelds manage it though? Not sure.
