Editing? How can you give the police reasonable doubt if both individuals are unarmed? You are quick to doubt the victims' word but can't admit that the officer was incompetent in this case? The Miami PD didn't even refute the fact or the story of the man but you are.

It's like you want to justify the shooting...

Nope, throughout this thread I both refered to the cop as being really bad at his job, having the worst aim ever and questioned his statement about what in the world he was shooting at considering his excuse of the shot going astray.... was this cop actually trying to shoot the autistic man? in which case he is very lucky in some ways that he missed and got the carer instead although may have ended up in less trouble with some groups since the autistic man was white.

I doubt all the facts until they are proven rather than picking up the most sensational ones or taking the headline "facts" as being all that matters in a story like this, the headline fact is the clickbait that gets you to click the story, News sites still function the same way gaming or other places do and still if they have an oppertunity to get more hits by ommiting certain things will do that, there is so many news stories to pick from if there is violence somewhere in the states, quick scan over it... are all the people there white? is there any black people? is anyone in the area wearing a turban? no? damnit move on to the next, will get more people watching it. Think about it there are 12,000 gun murders a year in the states, that's 33 per day to pick from for the news to see which would get more coverage... and that is just murders, this was a non lethal shooting, would be almost impossible to find out how many people are injured in the states everyday but it's going to be at least 10x the number of murders.

But don't get me wrong in this case the Cop was in the wrong as long as there wasn't anything strange happened when the victim got up and went to the autistic man but yeah just because someone tells you that they have a toy truck does not mean they have a toy truck, if you were a nervous cop and someone reached into their coat pocket saying they were going to get out their gameboy to show you their shiny eevee... do you take what they're saying as true? or react and think they could have a weapon (to be fair if someone was lucky enough to have a shiny eevee maybe I'd consider the second option just fine!) but yeah again I'm not taking either side on this story anywhere during this thread, all I'm asking is before a witchhunt begins for the cop that everyone look at all of the evidence rather than what appears in the headlines.

Regardless of what went on there though, I do not think the cop was in the right to shoot that man there is no justifying that horrible mistake. (just based on your final line, don't want that hanging in the air at all!)

Nope, throughout this thread I both refered to the cop as being really bad at his job, having the worst aim ever and questioned his statement about what in the world he was shooting at considering his excuse of the shot going astray.... was this cop actually trying to shoot the autistic man? in which case he is very lucky in some ways that he missed and got the carer instead although may have ended up in less trouble with some groups since the autistic man was white.

I doubt all the facts until they are proven rather than picking up the most sensational ones or taking the headline "facts" as being all that matters in a story like this, the headline fact is the clickbait that gets you to click the story, News sites still function the same way gaming or other places do and still if they have an oppertunity to get more hits by ommiting certain things will do that, there is so many news stories to pick from if there is violence somewhere in the states, quick scan over it... are all the people there white? is there any black people? is anyone in the area wearing a turban? no? damnit move on to the next, will get more people watching it. Think about it there are 12,000 gun murders a year in the states, that's 33 per day to pick from for the news to see which would get more coverage... and that is just murders, this was a non lethal shooting, would be almost impossible to find out how many people are injured in the states everyday but it's going to be at least 10x the number of murders.

But don't get me wrong in this case the Cop was in the wrong as long as there wasn't anything strange happened when the victim got up and went to the autistic man but yeah just because someone tells you that they have a toy truck does not mean they have a toy truck, if you were a nervous cop and someone reached into their coat pocket saying they were going to get out their gameboy to show you their shiny eevee... do you take what they're saying as true? or react and think they could have a weapon (to be fair if someone was lucky enough to have a shiny eevee maybe I'd consider the second option just fine!) but yeah again I'm not taking either side on this story anywhere during this thread, all I'm asking is before a witchhunt begins for the cop that everyone look at all of the evidence rather than what appears in the headlines.

Regardless of what went on there though, I do not think the cop was in the right to shoot that man there is no justifying that horrible mistake. (just based on your final line, don't want that hanging in the air at all!)

Nope, throughout this thread I both refered to the cop as being really bad at his job, having the worst aim ever and questioned his statement about what in the world he was shooting at considering his excuse of the shot going astray.... was this cop actually trying to shoot the autistic man? in which case he is very lucky in some ways that he missed and got the carer instead although may have ended up in less trouble with some groups since the autistic man was white.

I doubt all the facts until they are proven rather than picking up the most sensational ones or taking the headline "facts" as being all that matters in a story like this, the headline fact is the clickbait that gets you to click the story, News sites still function the same way gaming or other places do and still if they have an oppertunity to get more hits by ommiting certain things will do that, there is so many news stories to pick from if there is violence somewhere in the states, quick scan over it... are all the people there white? is there any black people? is anyone in the area wearing a turban? no? damnit move on to the next, will get more people watching it. Think about it there are 12,000 gun murders a year in the states, that's 33 per day to pick from for the news to see which would get more coverage... and that is just murders, this was a non lethal shooting, would be almost impossible to find out how many people are injured in the states everyday but it's going to be at least 10x the number of murders.

But don't get me wrong in this case the Cop was in the wrong as long as there wasn't anything strange happened when the victim got up and went to the autistic man but yeah just because someone tells you that they have a toy truck does not mean they have a toy truck, if you were a nervous cop and someone reached into their coat pocket saying they were going to get out their gameboy to show you their shiny eevee... do you take what they're saying as true? or react and think they could have a weapon (to be fair if someone was lucky enough to have a shiny eevee maybe I'd consider the second option just fine!) but yeah again I'm not taking either side on this story anywhere during this thread, all I'm asking is before a witchhunt begins for the cop that everyone look at all of the evidence rather than what appears in the headlines.

Regardless of what went on there though, I do not think the cop was in the right to shoot that man there is no justifying that horrible mistake. (just based on your final line, don't want that hanging in the air at all!)

Excellent reply.

that's all I really wanted to say. Nice to see someone who doesn't paint this as a black or white issue.

Are you giving incompetent public servants a pass for endangering people's lives without making positive ID of weapons? Cops are still supposed to be accountable for their actions. Just saying "I feared mylife" doesn't cut it.

I don't care about the media. I react to what I see, which is propably the opposite of what you do apparaently. You're too concerned with the media and not enough of with your own interpretation. People are not following the media but reinvigorating their conviction from ages ago.

Before the pass of civil rights act, people like you were indiferent/didn't believe black people's claim of mistreatment by law enforcement until videos of military and police dogs getting sicced on them. Before Rodney King beating in early 1990's claims of reocurring police brutality wasn't believed until the video surfaced and this time same thing happened and even with videos, the opposition to brutality claims are more formidable and persistant.

Bored of this really now, gonna just leave you to think what you want based on what you see, because... clearly you live in this neighbourhood and you saw this yourself? not the way the media presented it to you?

But yeah @Bold, you know what people like me do and I can't be bothered replying to you if all you are going to reply each time with is an attempt to put words in my mouth, it's boring. Good luck.

While I do believe the media is sensationalizing the whole "black people vs the police" thing (I do believe there is racism in the police force, just not as prevalant as they make it out), I do think all of this helps show we need better trained cops. The fact he shot an unarmed man with his hands up shows his incompetence as an officer -and is certainly not someone I'd trust my life with. This is probably the worst case so far, since his hands were clearly up when he was shot and not a threat to the police at any capacity. I'm glad the guy lived though, too many of these stories end up with people dead

Are you giving incompetent public servants a pass for endangering people's lives without making positive ID of weapons? Cops are still supposed to be accountable for their actions. Just saying "I feared mylife" doesn't cut it.

I don't care about the media. I react to what I see, which is propably the opposite of what you do apparaently. You're too concerned with the media and not enough of with your own interpretation. People are not following the media but reinvigorating their conviction from ages ago.

Before the pass of civil rights act, people like you were indiferent/didn't believe black people's claim of mistreatment by law enforcement until videos of military and police dogs getting sicced on them. Before Rodney King beating in early 1990's claims of reocurring police brutality wasn't believed until the video surfaced and this time same thing happened and even with videos, the opposition to brutality claims are more formidable and persistant.

Handcuffing in this situation is a judgement call. They don't always handcuff everyone. These are the rules they follow:

• There must be a lawful arrest and an order of the court of law, magistrate or justice of peace; or
• There is reasonable apprehension of violence; or
• There is an attempt to escape by an arrested person; or
• The restraint is necessary for the safety of the arrested person or other person or property.

"If any police officer uses handcuffs outside the above situations, and related ones, his action may amount to unnecessary use of force. Police officers should always learn the necessary conditions when the uses of handcuffs are expected. More so, apart from knowing the circumstances in which the uses of handcuffs are allowed, the police or other law enforcement agencies making use of the handcuffs should be prepared to justify the period of time the handcuffs were applied before their eventual removal."

In this case, it's the fourth point that applies. However, I really don't think ignoring his pleas for help with the wound after being handcuffed and shot by the police is standard. And certainly not for as long as 30 minutes. They should have been able to realize that there was no need for the handcuffs long before that. Especially under these circumstances where he is bleeding and needs attention.

Also, not sure what you mean about "How was the therapist protecting his patient while laying in the ground?"?
I didn't say anything about that. I only talked about how the cop claims that he was trying to protect the therapist and still hit him with a bullet. But to answer your question, the therapist was trying to protect his patient by telling the police not to shoot, and that he has a toy truck in his hand.

Definitely not. I don't think people with certain mental illness for example should be allowed to handle guns. And I don't think a 7 year old should be allowed to buy a long rifle from a private seller. (But they can because that's federal law in the USA. There is no age limit.) And I also don't think a person who is twice suspected of affiliations with a terrorist group (the Florida gay club shooter) to the point where he is put on a no-fly list should be able to buy an assault rifle. Unfortunately those things are allowed in the US.
I think everyone who wants to own one should be required to do proper training every year, just like how they implemented this in Australia and all the gun voilence and suicides dropped massively, not to mention they never had another massacre again in the 20 years since they implemented this reform. It may happen at some point, but making things more difficult for people with bad intentions doesn't hurt, and neither does more training and education of gun safety for private owners.

As for "criminals getting their hands on anything and everything", when it comes to countries where guns are illegal, they generally don't. When they break into a home for example they don't bring guns because they know there isn't a gun inside the house. If anything goes wrong, all they have to do is run away. They can't get shot in the back while running away after all. That's not the case in the US. They have to expect that there may be a gun in the house, and they can be lawfully shot in the back while running away. And so, to be safe they may want to bring a gun as well.
Anyway, that's a whole other discussion, and we can go on and on about that. But that's more suitted for another topic. Right here we're talking about police, and just like in any other profession, there are unqualified people in the force as well.

You have to ask yourself how terrifiyingly bad this cop's aim is that he accidentally shot the person he supposedly was trying to protect, who was lying still on the ground? Even if your only experience with a gun is the light zapper in Duck Hunt, you'd know to avoid firing at the area where the person you're trying to protect is in.

You don't have to be there to know that it wouldn't take long to realize that the boy had a toy truck, and that there was no gun. If they suspected that the patient may be violent, they could ask the therapist if that was the case.
But in this case it was the other guy who was handcuffed. The man who was bleeding and asking for help, but was ignored. With several officers there.

If we waited for further investigations to every piece of info we discuss here on the forums, whether about games or whatnot, there wouldn't be much discussion going on at all. If Shuhei Yoshida reveals the release date for Last Guardian, I'm going to go ahead and form an opinion on that, and not hold off and not form an opinion just in case someone hacked his account. Even though that can, and has happened. Because it's very unlikely.

In this case, I feel we already had adequate information to safely assume that that the cop in question acted incompetently, no matter what his excuse was.
Because I could not, and still do not, see any plausible scenario where the man lying on the ground like that should have been shot by the police in a way that's excusable. The only reasons I can think of are very farfetched. Currently, the cop's aim, vision, hearing and judgement are very much in question. And rightfully so, there is an internal investigation currently underway.
There's nothing wrong with sharing your opinion on a matter, as long as you follow up on the story if there's more relevant information. Especially because if no one reacts, there may not even be a response from the police. And for that matter, gaining access to internal police investigations is not an easy thing in the USA. So we may wait forever and never hear the details of the investigation.

Okay so this story has evolved and not multiple officers have been suspended for conflicting stories and falsifying a police report.  I wasn't trying to convince you that cops are villians. I was trying to get you to see that clearly this situation did not call for shooting unarmed people.  Its about you being able to judge a situation.  Its about the cop being able to judge a situation.  We need people with deadly weapons to think.  Without video footage had someone died, it would have been an absolute tragic situation. 

I wanted you to respect the gravity of the situation,  that a life was put at risk because of poor judgement. I have police in my family and as good friends. We know the importance of respecting your power to end life. We also refuse to not defend ourself against potential danger.  Its not a joke.  

I dont mean to come off as judgemental but i was shocked that you made it sound like an investigation needed to be done to prove that somehow its okay to shoot unarmed people.  I am telling you its not.  This should be self evident.