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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - What do you think is more important for Nintendo NX to have, powerful hardware or great first year lineup?

 

Which do you feel is more important for NX's success

Console Power 95 28.11%
 
Launch Lineup 212 62.72%
 
See results 31 9.17%
 
Total:338

Games are built on tech, tech is not built on games.



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padib said:
RolStoppable said:

You said Nintendo's vision for NX is to have third party support that requires powerful hardware. You said that because you were arguing that powerful hardware is equally important to having a strong first party lineup. However, nothing Nintendo has said about NX so far suggests that NX is about winning over the big third party publishers. Just about everything points in the direction that Nintendo will prioritize what sells Nintendo hardware best (that is Nintendo software, hence the entire idea of a unified library), because without sales, any kind of third party support will be a pipedream.

I didn't deny that Nintendo would like to collect royalty fees. All I said is that it isn't their main goal. Different context.

As for your proof, I am not sure if you remember what you are supposed to prove. You are arguing that third parties help to increase the installed base, hence why Nintendo has to have powerful hardware to appease third parties; your argument is that powerful hardware is equally important as a strong first party lineup. But the proof you provide shows higher sales of Nintendo software that happened on Nintendo systems that did not feature powerful hardware. I mean, you are presenting proof against your own argument. Powerful hardware was not needed to achieve higher sales, and the lack of powerful hardware can easily be argued to have been beneficial, because it had a positive effect on the price of the hardware.

You're splitting things up too much. A better library helps push sales of the software contained because an increased install base sells games. Both a better library and better 3rd party support (which both happened for Wii & 3DS) helped pushed game sales of Smash. You can't say that it was one or the other. Sure the consoles Wii & 3DS were not graphically equal to the best out there, but 3rd parties were attracted to the platforms. I am not saying that parity is the only way to attract 3rd parties, but I am saying that in some circumstances it probably is. For example, the U had new ways of playing, like the Wii, yet it failed. Therefore, perhaps there comes a time when what attracts 3rd parties is not just new input methods.

As for their vision, I didn't mean that 3rd party support was their main vision for the NX, I meant that it was a long-term vision if they have any business sense whatsoever. Sure they can sell games on their own, but it would make better business sense to have both: be highly successful without having to rely on 3rd parties and having support from 3rd parties.

The only problem essentially with that is you really can't get people on board with third party if there are other systems they are already coming out on. Even if the NX were more powerful, they would need a reason to upgrade, which is why it is so imperative for a strong 1st party line up to launch. Then getting people to want third party games, as well as the first party games comes off a lot easier. 



JustBeingReal said:
Games are built on tech, tech is not built on games.

But amazing games can be made on a wide variety of tech. 3DS has amazing games for example.



bigtakilla said:
JustBeingReal said:
Games are built on tech, tech is not built on games.

But amazing games can be made on a wide variety of tech. 3DS has amazing games for example.

The games on 3DS are still way limited compared to even PS3 and considering NX is said to be a console it's doubtful it would have limitations of 3DS hardware.

You can't make something like The Witcher 3 or Horizon Zero Dawn, with huge open world worlds, that feature quality physical destruction, dynamic weather, realistic transitions of time and quality visuals without tech around XB1/PS4.

It's a matter of being able to do everything a developer could want to at once in their game, tbh 3DS can't even do a fraction of what's possible on pretty reasonably cheap console hardware.



padib said:
bigtakilla said:

The only problem essentially with that is you really can't get people on board with third party if there are other systems they are already coming out on. Even if the NX were more powerful, they would need a reason to upgrade, which is why it is so imperative for a strong 1st party line up to launch. Then getting people to want third party games, as well as the first party games comes off a lot easier. 

You know that 3rd parties like to jump onboard a platform that was able to prove itself popular, especially when it comes to Nintendo - it seems like 3rd parties like to play a wait and see approach with them. With Sony or MS home consoles, they are even willing to push those markets for Sony and to a lesser extent Microsoft.

Nintendo can't give them right now reasons to behave that way. Nintendo needs to offer popular systems thanks to their strong internal library, and also thanks to being competitive. Sure, people won't buy the multiplats anyways for two reasons: 1) they prefer to play them on their prefered consoles, 2) the games will be stripped of features on Nintendo's platforms, at least at the start.

But what we're forgetting is that it's not just about short-term business. If Nintendo can prove consistent towards 3rd parties that they will never handicap them on graphical terms, and also improve their relations with 3rd parties such as EA and Ubi by playing by Sony and MS' rules for a bit, then they may be able to break the stigma. Especially thank God they have the ability to support consoles all on their own!!!! So they are able to reverse the tides.

Sony or MS would never be able to pull it off, because their existence in the market depends on 3rd parties. If they were in Nintendo's position, they would have had no choice but to bow out years ago.

RolStoppable said:

You aren't making sense. All that's left of your argument is "it wasn't true in the past, but maybe the next time things will be different; therefore powerful hardware is equally important to a strong first party lineup." Your reasoning isn't based on anything that has happened in the past, it's all just a wild guess that has no substance behind it.

Think what you will brother.

Let me tell you something, it worked for Sony and MS.

But that short term business of a strong 1st party lineup leads to your long term business strategy. 



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JustBeingReal said:
Games are built on tech, tech is not built on games.

Unless you are Nintendo.

MSony, yes they focus on most powerful tech.

Nintendo has always thought about hte type of gameplay / software they would like to build and then created hardware to support that idea. 



superchunk said:
JustBeingReal said:
Games are built on tech, tech is not built on games.

Unless you are Nintendo.

MSony, yes they focus on most powerful tech.

Nintendo has always thought about hte type of gameplay / software they would like to build and then created hardware to support that idea. 

It's no different for any of the platform holders/creators, they all decide their limits technically speaking by an end target, be it form factor, economical or whatever. Nintendo's decisions with the Wii U were limited by them wanting to have the gamepad as a part of the system, then also low cost tech for a small form factor device.

Sony and Microsoft didn't choose the most powerful tech, they just had higher cost allowances, along with bigger form factor devices and in the case of Sony they didn't dilute their console's vision by an external input device like their controller.

Nintendo has actually focused more on attempting to change the game through controller input and they also limited the budget and thermal capabilities of their systems, which never really benefited from what's possible from a processing perspective for gameplay. Having decent hardware to reach a capable end goal for gameplay hasn't been something they've considered since the gamecube, but even that was limited by using smaller capacity discs compared to what the competition used.

TBH Nintendo caring about what they want is what has limited them regaining traction with the wider gaming community, hopefully they've learned that's the case.



If by powerful hardware we are implying there is no design flaw/weakness to make 3rd party porting more trublesome then yeah that. this, combined with improved 3rd party relations, would make the lineup stronger throughout ALL the years! First year sales are always weaker than second, third and sometimes fourth year sales so year 1 lineup usually isn't that large of a factor when determine longterm success.

 

Gamecube had Luigi's mansion, smash bros, metroid prime, and mario sunshine its first year along with other 3rd party support. but that showed 1st year support wasn't the only thing needed. the years after we saw a drastic decline in 3rd party releases as well as Nintendo releasing games less frequent. Nintendo usually does have good first and second year support as their exclusives are front loaded (kinda like MS). Also PS4 had a weak first year for exclusives (Sony support is more mid to end gen with little support in the beginning) but sold massively due to being the most powerful and 3rd party support. Also I know Wii U had a weak launch window because of all the delays but the holiday after that and year 2 were strong.

 

Point is, if NX is to be successful then Nintendo has to change their game plan.



Thuglas said:

If by powerful hardware we are implying there is no design flaw/weakness to make 3rd party porting more trublesome then yeah that. this, combined with improved 3rd party relations, would make the lineup stronger throughout ALL the years!

Personally I think the term "powerful" isn't the best one to use, because different people interpret it differently.

I think it would be better to say that specs that cater to a wide range of developers needs would be best and that provides a good foundation of a system for Nintendo to provide what developers require to make any kinds of games they could think of, within the region we've been seeing.

First year sales are always weaker than second, third and sometimes fourth year sales so year 1 lineup usually isn't that large of a factor when determine longterm success.

Very true, games you can only buy on this one system aren't generally the ones that drive system sales, it happens  ocassionally, but it's the complete library of software available at a given time that really effects hardware sales and a platform getting the more technically impressive software is in a big way dependent on a system being able to run at least the bare minimum of the things the developers want to achieve.

Tech specs being adequate or impressive really is a fundamental thing that Nintendo should have taken into consideration when designing NX and it's not exactly an expensive thing to do, when you consider that modern cheap GPUs can easily hit the 1080p 60FPS mark, while managing to use the highest visual settings and gameplay features of modern games.

Capable CPUs and Memory to support that aren't expensive either, so there's no real excuse for Nintendo to miss out on have any of this stuff with NX, even in a small form factor device.

Gamecube had Luigi's mansion, smash bros, metroid prime, and mario sunshine its first year along with other 3rd party support. but that showed 1st year support wasn't the only thing needed. the years after we saw a drastic decline in 3rd party releases as well as Nintendo releasing games less frequent. Nintendo usually does have good first and second year support as their exclusives are front loaded (kinda like MS). Also PS4 had a weak first year for exclusives (Sony support is more mid to end gen with little support in the beginning) but sold massively due to being the most powerful and 3rd party support. Also I know Wii U had a weak launch window because of all the delays but the holiday after that and year 2 were strong.

It seems pretty clear that even with the Gamecube Nintendo did lack in releasing their own games or partnering with external developers to bring software that appeals to the wider western 3rd party gaming audience.

Nintendo needs to make titles that can stand out from the CODs, Battlefield, Witcher, bring their own flavor, but also draw the attention of those gamers.

Those kinds of games, on a technically capable, but good value for money system would get them back in the game and drive Nintendo's market share up in the console space. They really need to market the hell out of it too.

Point is, if NX is to be successful then Nintendo has to change their game plan.

I think the above tactic is why Sony has become as big as they have, they have their own games that appeal to the audience that buys third party, they've also built themselves to be known for having a great variety beyond that too.

I hope Nintendo gives that a go with NX, but I'm not sure I have faith that they will, since it's something that has eluded their attention for quite a few generations now. They need to target the gamers that played their systems when they were young, but have grown up to buy a different flavor of title.

Maybe they need to build new studios to do that or perhaps partner with external ones, but if they don't do that I can see their share customers either stagnating into a small niche group or getting smaller with NX compared to even Wii U.

See my reply in bold.



padib said:
bigtakilla said:

But that short term business of a strong 1st party lineup leads to your long term business strategy. 

I wish it were that simple, but in the home console market, without competing with Sony and MS, the 3rd parties will always have a reason to leave Nintendo.

It happened with the Wii, and it happened with the N64. It also would happen if Nintendo tries replicating their handheld success on home consoles. The nature of the home console market is so different, that they have to play by certain rules to guarantee their acceptance by partners and by the industry as a whole.

It's unfortunate, but it's the truth.

With userbase, the reason greatly diminishes. The Wii had some of the best third party support since the NES, SNES days.