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Forums - Sony - Biggest issue(s) with Sony for you

JWeinCom said:
I'm just not into their first party games. They are typically competently made, but they've never really added anything new or exceptional (with a few exceptions). Some games are just down right shamelessly derivative (Sports Champions, PSASBR), Everybody Dance, Move in general).

That you don't like their first party games is of course undebatable as its your opinion and I can't/won't try to change that.

But referring to some of their games as "shamelessly derivative"... Why?

 

Yes, 4-player beat 'em up games like PSASBR (PS3) and Kung Fu Chaos (Xbox) are clearly inspired by SMB (the genre was invented long before SMB though).

But that doesn't make them "shameless" imo. Would you refer to Tekken as shameless as well or every other game that is inspired by another game? Inspiration goes all ways my friend. Nothing wrong about that.

 

The Wii and the "Wii" series of games that went on to sell over 200 mill combined are one of Nintendo's biggest successes ever but at the same time a product of Nintendo being inspired by the PlayStation Eyetoy tech and series of games.

EyeToy Play Sports (motion controlled boxing, tennis, etc) -> Wii Sports (motion controlled boxing, tennis, etc)

                         

EyeToy Play (motion controlled minigames) -> Wii Play (motion controlled minigames)

                  

EyeToy Kinetic (motion controlled exercise game) -> Wii Fit (motion controlled exercise game)

                    

EyeToy Monkey Mania (motion controlled party games) -> Wii Party (motion controlled party games)

                   

EyeToy Groove (motion controlled rythm game) -> We Dance (motion controlled rythm game)

                



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Kratos



Lack of Vita support, PS+, firing evolution and Sony Liverpool.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

Paying for online is the only one annoyance I can think about them.



Not being rich enough to buy their premium products =p

I have no serious issues with Sony. But they sure need to better control their cost, because when you are the pricier on the mass market and still turns unprofitable you are doing things very wrong.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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Ruler said:

Not supporting their japanese gaming devision as much as the others


Looool.

 

Sony is way more forgiving of their Japanese devs than their western devs. Team ICO would've been closed down 7 years ago had it not been in Japan, Polyphony is coasting with Gran Turismo, barely even trying to rectify the complaints people have, and Japan Studios' output in general has been poor in the last years. It's the Japanese division not supporting Sony as much as the western division is, not Sony not supporting the Japanese division.



hershel_layton said:

1) The Vita. As great of a handheld it is, they obviously didn't learn from the previous generation. From the day it launched to now, it's obvious that the Vita could have been handled much better.

 

Agreed about the bolded. Disagree with the underlined. Sony did learn from the previous generation.

1. Piracy was the biggest problem with psp and developers eventually abandoned it. They fixed that with the (outrageously expensive) memory cards.

2. They also added a second thumbstick which was the most requested feature and the reason a lot of people claimed they wouldn't buy a psp in the first place.

As for support, as much as people like to act like things are black or white, in most cases they aren't. The support wasn't great but it was good.

We got some incredible games such as Wipeout, Gravity Rush, Little Big Planet (the best version imho), Killzone, Tearaway (one of the best games I've ever played), Soul Sacrifice, and Uncharted (easily best looking handheld game).They were also some mediocre to bad games of really big franchises which shows that they did try (Assassin's Creed, COD, and Resistance to an extent).

They made great efforts to port some of their biggest games and even made a lot of 1st party games also available on vita day one (MLB, PSASBR etc).They even kept bugging 3rd parties to port their games to the vita buy and even gave them incentives.

That was good support. It wasn't amazing, but it was far from as bad as people are making it sound.

The problem was that it was doomed from the start. It wouldn't have sold more than 30m no matter what.

 

My issue with Sony has always been how they don't promote certain titles enough and they end up flopping. They should have tried harder with the MOVE and asked some of their more talented developers to make good games for it (though that Harry Potter was a good idea).

I'm still mad about Xperia Play. Easily the best phone I have ever owned, but the support was a joke. Had it not stopped working, I'd still be using it.



Goodnightmoon said:
DannyDesario said:

You'd rather watch Cars, Lion King, Frozen, ect. over Donnie Darko, Superbad, Dead Poets Society, Neighors, 21 Jumpstreet, Scott Pilgrim v. the world, Juno, Perks of Being a Wallflower, boyhood, Zombieland ect.?... You are easily impressionable. lol.

Not really, I rather watch Spirited Away than Transformers.

If you're trying to make an analogy to video-games with that example then it's an incredibly poor one.  Spirited Away is a story with emotional complexity and lots of meaningful imagination.  Good luck proving that anyone offers that on a consistent basis.  An ICO level game doesn't come along very often.

If we're talking about typical releases, it's more like Popeye and Mickey Mouse versus Indiana Jones and Spiderman.



Sticking to gaming only; not including their phones or even how awesome the mini-disk was before their ruined it :) :

Big issues:
- Their controller layout and size and no standard battery support
- Their user interface
- Very limited eco-system with the Playstation network ID (unlike Microsoft or Google account for instance)
- Playstation Vita support overall. I payed for that thing and it is just useless...

Not so big issues:
- I have none to very low interests in any of their exclusives (not a big issue because this would be expected from a Sony enthusiast not playing/looking at Microsoft/Nintendo games for instance)
- Lot of support drop at some point (Linux, backward compatibility on PS3, etc...). Not a big issue because only the PS3 one affected me personally.
- Too much focus on Indies during their conferences.



Mike_L said:
JWeinCom said:
I'm just not into their first party games. They are typically competently made, but they've never really added anything new or exceptional (with a few exceptions). Some games are just down right shamelessly derivative (Sports Champions, PSASBR), Everybody Dance, Move in general).

That you don't like their first party games is of course undebatable as its your opinion and I can't/won't try to change that.

But referring to some of their games as "shamelessly derivative"... Why?

 

Yes, 4-player beat 'em up games like PSASBR (PS3) and Kung Fu Chaos (Xbox) are clearly inspired by SMB (the genre was invented long before SMB though).

But that doesn't make them "shameless" imo. Would you refer to Tekken as shameless as well or every other game that is inspired by another game? Inspiration goes all ways my friend. Nothing wrong about that.

 

The Wii and the "Wii" series of games that went on to sell over 200 mill combined are one of Nintendo's biggest successes ever but at the same time a product of Nintendo being inspired by the PlayStation Eyetoy tech and series of games.

EyeToy Play Sports (motion controlled boxing, tennis, etc) -> Wii Sports (motion controlled boxing, tennis, etc)

                         

EyeToy Play (motion controlled minigames) -> Wii Play (motion controlled minigames)

                  

EyeToy Kinetic (motion controlled exercise game) -> Wii Fit (motion controlled exercise game)

                    

EyeToy Monkey Mania (motion controlled party games) -> Wii Party (motion controlled party games)

                   

EyeToy Groove (motion controlled rythm game) -> We Dance (motion controlled rythm game)

                

Games are going to have similarities, yes.  But there is a difference between creating a game that is similar, and doing a wholesale rip off.

And the examples you gave are absolutely ridiculous.

Let's take for example the Monkey Ball game and Wii Party.  Wii Party is based on the board game format that Nintendo had been using since Mario Party.  So it would be hard to argue that Nintendo took this idea from Sony.  Aside from the board game structure, the games don't seem very similar otherwise in the aesthetics, gameplay (they both use motion , but that's where it ends), or any other aspect. 

So we'll move on to Eye Toy Sports and Wii Sports.  Eye Toy Sports was a pretty different game as, so far as I can tell, it's not really trying to mimic the sports.  There are a collection of minigames that are vaguely similar to sports (for example the hockey game has you flailing your arms to block a series of flaming pucks).  Aside from the fact that they both use motion, they don't control very similarly, are not structured similarly, and have no visual or aural similarities. 

Eye Toy Kinetic and and Wii Fit are again only similar in the most superficial of ways.  They both have something to do with fitness, and they both have a motion controller.  You might have some sort of a point if Kinetic focussed on balance, used a scale as its primary controller, had the similar games to Wii Fit, tracked your weight, had similar graphics, or anything like that.  But it doesn't.  The two games are similar to the extent that Sonic and Mario are similar.

I actually haven't played Wii Play, and can't find many good clips of Eyetoy Play.  Maybe this one is a ripoff, but going by the quality of your other examples, I would doubt it.

And since we saved the most ridiculous example for last, let's go to the dancing games.  We Dance had nothing to do with Nintendo beyond Nintendo saying "sure whatever, you can make this game for the Wii".  If anything, it's a rip off of the DDR games on the Wii.  But hey, if you're trying to prove that Nordic games rips off other companies, then good job.  You sure showed me. 

The similarities you've given are basically "they're the same genre, and they both use motion controls".  Which is a pretty weak argument.  That's like if I did something like this...

Halo (button controlled shooting game) -> Uncharted (button controlled shooting game)

            

Which would obviously be pretty stupid.  Just because they are in the same genre and use the same style of control (comparitively, the controllers used in Wii Sports and Eyetoy Play are actually WAAAAAY more more distinct) doesn't mean one is a rip off of another.

On to the examples I gave... Let's take Sport Champions to start with.

Sports Champions was, like Wii Sports, a sports game that launched alongside a motion control solution.  The motion control solution Sony was offering just happened to be nearly identical to Nintendo's, right down to the nunchuck.  The game is structured the same way.  Of the five games they have, 3 of them had already been seen on either Wii Sports or Wii Sports resort.  Of those three games, 2 of them play nearly exactly the same as their Wii counterparts (frolf and archery).  One of them is similar but with rather unnecessary complexities added.  But, before I say that Sony completely ripped off Nintendo, let me at least give them credit for adding bocce to the mix.  Give the people what they want Sony!

Everybody Dance was a direct rip off of Just Dance.  The same structure, the same controls, the same aesthetics, same way they keep scores, same way they show you the moves, etc etc.  I was actually *shudder* working retail at the time, and we had the Just Dance 3 (I believe it was 3 at the time) demo running a few feet away from the Move demo.  Whenever the Move demo was running, we'd have little girls coming over to it saying "I wanna play Just Dance"! The game does absolutely nothing to distinguish itself.  

PSASBR took the overall gameplay style, control scheme, aesthetics, and most of the mechanics directly from Smash.  The way you input moves, the way characters fly after those moves are hit (which really serves no purpose in PSASBR...) , the platforming inspired stages (which doesn't make much sense considering how few of their characters have roots in 2D platform games) , the art style, and so on so forth.  They added two things to the mix really.  A combo system, and the way you KO people.  The second change is particularly weird as it takes a king of the hill style fighting game, and took out the king of the hill part.  They copied the game without understanding quite how it works.  And if they were going to rip off a 4 player fighting game, they could have at least ripped off Power Stone.  Which would have made more sense anyway.  


See, you wouldn't call Sonic the Hedgehog a ripoff of Mario just because they're both platformers that are controlled with buttons.  Sega wanted a mascot platformer to combat Mario, but they didn't simply take the mechanics and graphics of Mario and change the hero and some minor details.  They changed the structure of the game, the way it controls, the physics, the objective, and virtually all the mechanics.  Of course, they still have some similarities, because that is bound to happen.  

Ubisoft wanted to make a dancing game because of the popularity of Dance Dance Revolution.  But, the games, aside from both involving moving and dancing, share almost nothing else.

Nintendo wanted a motion control solution, but they didn't simply make the Nintendo Eye Toy.  They developed something that was completely different, and far better.  To call the Wii a copy of the Eye Toy, which you heavily imply, is simply stupid.  The experiences are not in the least bit the same.  On the other hand, the move is basically exactly the same as the Wii.