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Forums - Sony Discussion - Sony's Jim Ryan: "performance difference between Neo and Scorpio is just speculation"

Nate4Drake said:
I won't even be surprised if NEO turns to be more powerful than Scorpio.

That would be lunacy. More powerful and released earlier. Win win on all levels.



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I wouldn't be shocked if they're both using similar specs all along much like ps4/x1. If there is a difference it'll likely be pretty similar to the current difference albeit with swapped roles.
That should't matter though because all generation people have said you can't tell a difference.



l <---- Do you mean this glitch Gribble?  If not, I'll keep looking.  

 

 

 

 

I am on the other side of my sig....am I warm or cold?  

Marco....

Nate4Drake said:
I won't even be surprised if NEO turns to be more powerful than Scorpio.

I wouldn't either. It smells of the whole "we won't stop you from playing used games or sharing with your friends" switcheroo.  



l <---- Do you mean this glitch Gribble?  If not, I'll keep looking.  

 

 

 

 

I am on the other side of my sig....am I warm or cold?  

Marco....

shikamaru317 said:
Madword said:
MS does a Scorpio reveal which is actually "Absolutely nothing"... but gets the fans all excited about beating Sony at their own game. But when you pull back the paper you find MS has given people nothing but a broad stroke idea that they haven't even probably developed that far yet (because its 1.5 years out). I can see why Ryan is laughing.

It's the cloud, kinect and project milo level of PR baiting... you think they'd have learnt their lesson, but people still lap it up.

I think it's a bit more than broad stroke idea. Afaik, the only component MS didn't reveal exact specs for was the CPU, all they said was that it's 8 core, we didn't learn the clock speed or rather it's using the old Jaguar cores or AMD's new Zen cores. They did however give a 6 tflop figure for the GPU, which can be used to extrapolate a very likely GPU scenario, and the speed of the RAM (320 GB/s). Even more detail can be extrapolated from the CGI prototype of the Scorpio motherboard, mainly the fact that it appears to have 12 GB of RAM. At the very least, it seems that GPU and RAM specs are now finalized since they revealed that much about them already. They're likely still deciding on rather to use the cheaper, less powerful Jaguar CPU cores, or the more powerful Zen cores. Jaguar would be cheaper and would allow them to get dev kits out to devs faster, but it could cause bottles necks in CPU intensive games, while waiting on AMD to finish Zen means that MS can't get dev kits out to developers until early next year, but the system will be well-rounded, with very few bottlenecks.

But that was kind of my point, that they are unable to make this machine yet becauseof perhaps a component part or because of price, or a combination of things. So their 1.5 years early reveal is way to early, and was only done for Pr reasons (which is fine i understand why they are trying to combat Neo), but its all smoke and mirrors right now. With so long to go, I have no doubt they'll make the specs they say they'll get (maybe not at a reasonable price), but saying here's our latest console, the most powerful console ever made... when it doenst really exist... pr bait.



Making an indie game : Dead of Day!

Madword said:
MS does a Scorpio reveal which is actually "Absolutely nothing"... but gets the fans all excited about beating Sony at their own game. But when you pull back the paper you find MS has given people nothing but a broad stroke idea that they haven't even probably developed that far yet (because its 1.5 years out). I can see why Ryan is laughing.

It's the cloud, kinect and project milo level of PR baiting... you think they'd have learnt their lesson, but people still lap it up.

Everybody does it. Nintendo said we'd say "wow" when we saw the Wii's graphics and PS4/Xbox  wouldn't be much more powerful than WiiU. Sony said it would take years for PC to catch up to the power of the PS2 (and its Toy Story graphics) and don't forget "the power of the Cell".

 

Don't trust any of them until they actually show you the goods. You'll be less disappointed that way.



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shikamaru317 said:
Ruler said:

http://www.gamepur.com/news/23460-massive-ps4-neo-leak-gpu-2x-more-powerful-high-clock-speed-55tf-price-499.html

they could only got data for the weaker model

I don't understand why Sony would send out dev kits of the weaker prototype to devs before they had decided which prototype to use. I guess they figured that if they sent out the weaker prototype to devs, they could start building their games earlier and then just transfer them over to the stronger version if and when Sony decided to go with the more powerful prototype. But that's a bit of a gambit imo, those devs won't be very happy when they have to choose to either delay their games to re-optiomize them for the 5.5 tflop console or release the old 4.2 tflop build of their games and risk them being criticized compared to the games that are optimized for the 5.5 tflop build. 

they didnt complained when the ram for ps4 was increased from 4 to 8



shikamaru317 said:
Guitarguy said:
Supposedly Sony were experimenting with multiplie variants before deciding on the final product. This is not uncommon as we see and hear about various iterations of PS4s that were considered prior to the final version. Not sure if this is rumor or fact though.

It does indeed make sense to have multiple prototypes in testing, MS reportedly tested several Scorpio prototypes before settling on the final 6 tflop version. However, the specs sheet that Digital Foundry received for Neo and independently verified with multiple developer sources didn't come from a Sony R&D lab, it supposedly came from the dev kit package that Sony sent out to multiple developers. You typically wouldn't send prototypes out to devs, you send the final spec so they can make an accurate game build. 

How you can possibly think sony will release hardware that is a full 2Tf weaker is beyond me. Especially when we pretty mich know exsctly whst GPU they are using. And its not the hardest thing in the world or out of reason for sony to simultaneously be working on more than one prototype. Its almost a given. Releasing final dev kits with the final specs is not uncommon with consoles. That too is a given.

At some point there was a fev kit for the PS4 that had it with 4GB of  Ram.... 

All that aside, just think of any reason sony would allow themselves be outpaced by MS by such a margin. You think they don't also kmow of all the comparison vids saying games run better on PS4? They may not push for 4TF, but probably know they can get away with 5/5.5TF with no obvious differemce in performance between the two. Now is the time such decisions are made. 

shikamaru317 said:

That's a relatively small upgrade though, compared to a 4.2 to 5.5 tflop GPU upgrade, likely a memory speed upgrade, and a CPU upgrade. Games from devs who optimized for the weaker prototype will end up looking noticeably worse than those that were optimized for the stronger prototype, and that may annoy some of the devs that got the weaker dev kits, because it will affect consumer opinion of the game and maybe even review scores from certain outlets that include graphics in their final score. 

You proposing solutions to problems that don't exist. Even sonys first part studios didnt know about 8GB and were wotking on 4GB prior to release. It happens.

and these devs are working and "optimizing" for 1.8TF, not 4.2 or 5.5.... whatever their neo mode ends up being, having a more powerful neo than what they expected is never going to be something devs will bitch about.

Lastly, the quality of their game will not be judged based on how much better it runs on hardware thats not even released or at the time doesnt even hsve up to 5% on the platforms install base. And annoy the devs? lol pls..... adding won't annoy devs, taking away does. 



Intrinsic said:
shikamaru317 said:

It does indeed make sense to have multiple prototypes in testing, MS reportedly tested several Scorpio prototypes before settling on the final 6 tflop version. However, the specs sheet that Digital Foundry received for Neo and independently verified with multiple developer sources didn't come from a Sony R&D lab, it supposedly came from the dev kit package that Sony sent out to multiple developers. You typically wouldn't send prototypes out to devs, you send the final spec so they can make an accurate game build. 

How you can possibly think sony will release hardware that is a full 2Tf weaker is beyond me. Especially when we pretty mich know exsctly whst GPU they are using. And its not the hardest thing in the world or out of reason for sony to simultaneously be working on more than one prototype. Its almost a given. Releasing final dev kits with the final specs is not uncommon with consoles. That too is a given.

At some point there was a fev kit for the PS4 that had it with 4GB of  Ram.... 

All that aside, just think of any reason sony would allow themselves be outpaced by MS by such a margin. You think they don't also kmow of all the comparison vids saying games run better on PS4? They may not push for 4TF, but probably know they can get away with 5/5.5TF with no obvious differemce in performance between the two. Now is the time such decisions are made. 

shikamaru317 said:

That's a relatively small upgrade though, compared to a 4.2 to 5.5 tflop GPU upgrade, likely a memory speed upgrade, and a CPU upgrade. Games from devs who optimized for the weaker prototype will end up looking noticeably worse than those that were optimized for the stronger prototype, and that may annoy some of the devs that got the weaker dev kits, because it will affect consumer opinion of the game and maybe even review scores from certain outlets that include graphics in their final score. 

You proposing solutions to problems that don't exist. Even sonys first part studios didnt know about 8GB and were wotking on 4GB prior to release. It happens.

and these devs are working and "optimizing" for 1.8TF, not 4.2 or 5.5.... whatever their neo mode ends up being, having a more powerful neo than what they expected is never going to be something devs will bitch about.

Lastly, the quality of their game will not be judged based on how much better it runs on hardware thats not even released or at the time doesnt even hsve up to 5% on the platforms install base. And annoy the devs? lol pls..... adding won't annoy devs, taking away does. 

Yes totally right, devs would never ever complain about having more power than expected... this is a good thing.



Making an indie game : Dead of Day!

All this talking about power and specs but little talk about games. Games are what matter.



Microsoft should be scared because Sony is the best company in the world and always wins. That's why i happily pay my monthly fee to play online.