Forums - Gaming Discussion - The Neo is focused on 4k gaming, make no mistake.

Pemalite said:

Pal "Standard Definition/DVD" is 720x576i
NTSC "Standard Definition/DVD" is 720x480i
High Definition is 1280x720 (Allot of 720P TV's are actually 1366x768 or 1360x768)
Full High Definition  is 1920x1080
Quad High Definition is 2560x1440
Quad Full High Definition is 3840x2160
The Real Cinema standard 4k is actually 4096x2160.

That's mostly because it's literally a quad-drupling of pixels, retaining the same aspect ratio. - There isn't any weird stretching or scaling going on.

Teeqoz said:

Not too much really. Only like 399-449$, using new GPU tech like Polaris 10 or 11 and a bit beefier CPU. So somewhere from 50 to 100 dollars more than a PS4 currently costs.

That assumes that Polaris has the capability to acceptably handle 4k, keep in mind it's a mid-range card, it's target is 1080P/1440P and VR.

Now nVidia is struggling to achieve 4k 60fps with it's Geforce 1080 card...
AMD is trying to sell consumers on two Polaris 10 cards verses a single Geforce 1080 for gaming and benchmarks are backing that up, you can't expect a single card to do 4k.

Vega and then Navi will be AMD's "4k" chips. Not Polaris, no idea where this expectation of Polaris doing 4k came from.

Um, what?  Yes there is or it would look all blockly.  Look at a Wii on a 1080p TV, it's painful.



 

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The PS4 is not going to be a True 4k console. And i think that is exactly what sony intended.

Make a console that has the power to do stable 1080p and extra power to dial up everything within that 1080p then output that in 4k with an upscaling alogarithm that has more power then the average upscaler has.

What you end up with is something that looks better than 1080p but bot as good as 4k, but a ge that has more IQ improvements outside just resolution.



Why though? Could we please focus on 60 FPS instead?



 

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Zappykins said:
Pemalite said:

Pal "Standard Definition/DVD" is 720x576i
NTSC "Standard Definition/DVD" is 720x480i
High Definition is 1280x720 (Allot of 720P TV's are actually 1366x768 or 1360x768)
Full High Definition  is 1920x1080
Quad High Definition is 2560x1440
Quad Full High Definition is 3840x2160
The Real Cinema standard 4k is actually 4096x2160.

That's mostly because it's literally a quad-drupling of pixels, retaining the same aspect ratio. - There isn't any weird stretching or scaling going on.

That assumes that Polaris has the capability to acceptably handle 4k, keep in mind it's a mid-range card, it's target is 1080P/1440P and VR.

Now nVidia is struggling to achieve 4k 60fps with it's Geforce 1080 card...
AMD is trying to sell consumers on two Polaris 10 cards verses a single Geforce 1080 for gaming and benchmarks are backing that up, you can't expect a single card to do 4k.

Vega and then Navi will be AMD's "4k" chips. Not Polaris, no idea where this expectation of Polaris doing 4k came from.

Um, what?  Yes there is or it would look all blockly.  Look at a Wii on a 1080p TV, it's painful.

The Wii wasn't a quad-drupling of pixels, it looks worst than merely a blocky image.
You were upscaling 640x480 to 1280x720 or 1920x1080.

For 720P you were doubling the Horizontal Pixels, whilst vertical pixels increased by 50%. - You see the problem with that now, right? You are stretching square pixels into rectangles. - Regardless of how you try to upscale that, it will always look a little funkier than the quadrupling of pixels allowing for a perfect 1:1 scaling.



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Are you implying that Neo is not focused on making people happy?



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Intrinsic said:
The PS4 is not going to be a True 4k console. And i think that is exactly what sony intended.

Make a console that has the power to do stable 1080p and extra power to dial up everything within that 1080p then output that in 4k with an upscaling alogarithm that has more power then the average upscaler has.

What you end up with is something that looks better than 1080p but bot as good as 4k, but a ge that has more IQ improvements outside just resolution.

Sony will be relying on AMD's upscaler.

What you describe is a scenario that could also very well occur on Scorpio'. It's really all up to the developers, so it's not really a selling point for Sony, nor does it make the Neo magically better than the competition.

Besides, the vanilla 'launch' Playstation 4 and Xbox One can already upscale to 4k, the hardware scaler has it built in today and has done so since these platforms launched, the only caveat is that it's limited to 30fps/hz as per the HDMI 1.4 standard.

At the end of the day though Scorpio is likely to have better looking multiplats.



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Pemalite said:
Intrinsic said:
The PS4 is not going to be a True 4k console. And i think that is exactly what sony intended.

Make a console that has the power to do stable 1080p and extra power to dial up everything within that 1080p then output that in 4k with an upscaling alogarithm that has more power then the average upscaler has.

What you end up with is something that looks better than 1080p but bot as good as 4k, but a ge that has more IQ improvements outside just resolution.

Sony will be relying on AMD's upscaler.

What you describe is a scenario that could also very well occur on Scorpio'. It's really all up to the developers, so it's not really a selling point for Sony, nor does it make the Neo magically better than the competition.

Besides, the vanilla 'launch' Playstation 4 and Xbox One can already upscale to 4k, the hardware scaler has it built in today and has done so since these platforms launched, the only caveat is that it's limited to 30fps/hz as per the HDMI 1.4 standard.

At the end of the day though Scorpio is likely to have better looking multiplats.

Oh yes.... i expect thats what MS is going to do too. Render games internally at 1440p then upscale that to 4k. it the dame thing they hwbe done with the XB1, render games internally at a lower rez then upscale. Their upscaler just had a loy of halo artifacts and thats what resulted in the "high contrasty" looking XB2 games. 

And not likely, i expect that the scorpio is gauranteed to habe the better looking multiplats. though when it comes to rez the diminishing returns thing is more obvious. Big differemce going from SD to 720p. Not as much from 720p to 1080p. Even less from 1080p to 4k.......etc.



torok said:
malistix1985 said:
The Processor in the Neo is absolutely horrible, sure 4K is mostly about the GPU but currently in the PS4 the CPU is already the bottleneck, the Scorpio if rumoured 6Tflops are true will have a hard time with 4K but the Neo will just have an IMPOSSIBLE 4k experience in AAA games.

If you are just pushing more pixels, the CPU doesn't have much to do with it. If they keep a similar CPU and upgrade the GPU, 4K @ 30 will be more feasible than 1080p @ 60.

Nah 4k@30fps isn't even possible with that hardware. Unless games run at very low detail, then it "might" be possible.



malistix1985 said:
The Processor in the Neo is absolutely horrible, sure 4K is mostly about the GPU but currently in the PS4 the CPU is already the bottleneck, the Scorpio if rumoured 6Tflops are true will have a hard time with 4K but the Neo will just have an IMPOSSIBLE 4k experience in AAA games.

Nobody really knows about the processor yet besides a Eurogamer rumour. In fact, AMD has manifested no intention to shrink Puma or Jaguar to 14nm on any official slide or leaked foundry roadmap (since obviously no one is interested on those, and for good reasons). Neo could use four Zen cores for all we know, since that's exactly what is going to be the CPU component on every 14nm AMD APU.



 

 

 

 

 

haxxiy said:
malistix1985 said:
The Processor in the Neo is absolutely horrible, sure 4K is mostly about the GPU but currently in the PS4 the CPU is already the bottleneck, the Scorpio if rumoured 6Tflops are true will have a hard time with 4K but the Neo will just have an IMPOSSIBLE 4k experience in AAA games.

Nobody really knows about the processor yet besides a Eurogamer rumour. In fact, AMD has manifested no intention to shrink Puma or Jaguar to 14nm on any official slide or leaked foundry roadmap (since obviously no one is interested on those, and for good reasons). Neo could use four Zen cores for all we know, since that's exactly what is going to be the CPU component on every 14nm AMD APU.

Won't be Zen. Actually... It's impossible for it to be Zen. The CPU hasn't been taped out yet.
Like yourself, I would prefer a bunch of beefy Zen cores. (That is, if it's performance is as good as AMD is claiming. - Which if history is anything to go by, it won't.)

It will likely use Puma+ or Jaguar. - Remember these are semi-custom chips, it wouldn't be difficult for AMD to do a silicon respin and get Jaguar or Puma+ down to 14nm in conjunction with a Graphics Core Next 4.0 derived GPU.
It *could* also use (Bristol/Stoney Ridge) Excavator. (Dear god, I hope not.)



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