Forums - Sales Discussion - Is ANYBODY profiting on the PS3 right now?

A for the other parts of the equation Users ;we are getting a free online system that works pretty well ,good games as Resistence ,Motorstorm ,Oblivion ,VF5 or Virtua Tennis 3 ,the capability to see BR movies ...and a machine that doesnt end up scratching discs and with the three red lights of death .Its expensive ,sure ,but a great system without a doubt . Retailers ;PS3 selling at 600 is making nearly as much money as the X360 selling at 300-400 .The box of the PS3 may be slightly bigger ,but I doubt it is a problem as for warehouse space or shelves space ...at least is smaller that 2 X360 boxes wich bring in the same revenue .Plus we dont know what margins the stores deal for these three machines ....usually in more expensive machines the profit margin for stores is bigger .



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Diomedes said: "The only word we have is the 500K from Namco Bandai but that number seems totally absurd"

 

Keep in mind that this is only for Playstation 3 development, not for games in general. I really don't understand how you can simply brush off their statement. Namco/Bandai is the second largest video game software developer in Japan. They say it takes 500,000 copies to turn a profit. What's your expertise? Or even data/evidence of any kind to support your position? Because right now, it looks like this:

 

Namco/Bandai: From our experience, and based on our sales, it takes approximately 500,000 copies of a PS3 game to recoup developmental costs.

Diomedes: That's absurd.

 

I'll restate this for emphasis -- do you have any pertinent evidence at hand to support your claim, or are you just dismissing Namco's statement out of hand? 

 



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Diomedes1976 said:
A for the other parts of the equation Users ;we are getting a free online system that works pretty well ,good games as Resistence ,Motorstorm ,Oblivion ,VF5 or Virtua Tennis 3 ,the capability to see BR movies ...and a machine that doesnt end up scratching discs and with the three red lights of death .Its expensive ,sure ,but a great system without a doubt . Retailers ;PS3 selling at 600 is making nearly as much money as the X360 selling at 300-400 .The box of the PS3 may be slightly bigger ,but I doubt it is a problem as for warehouse space or shelves space ...at least is smaller that 2 X360 boxes wich bring in the same revenue .Plus we dont know what margins the stores deal for these three machines ....usually in more expensive machines the profit margin for stores is bigger .

Ok, fist you say retailers are making NEARLY as much money from a PS3 sale, as a 360 Sale, THEN you state that one PS3 sale is equal to two 360 Sales.

 Not to mention its ludicrous suggestion to begin with, as retailes make next to nothing on console hardware.

And we DO know the profit margins the stores deal in, its in the 5 to 15 dollar per machine range.

 



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Thanks for all of the thoughtful ideas and comments in this thread -- especially to QT for the detailed analysis of the PS3 software lineup. Looks like there might be a few companies making money in the PS3 market, but there's a lot of risk there at the moment.



Strategy for PS3 right now HAS to be, Port it, and charge 10 dollars more. I dont see any other way to do it on PS3, until the userbase expands.



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Feel free to correct me but I believe the 500k mark for PS3 games has a lot to do with programming for the system being more complicated for the Xbox360. If this was the case it would mean you would need both more experienced programmers for the system and most likely more of them working on the game than you would for the 360 meaning your spending more to produce the game than you would on other systems thus necesitating higher sales numbers. As for a game like RR7 needing to sell 500k to make a profit I believe the game has elements such as cars and tracks that are cross overs from RR6 but I don't think the game is a complete port as extras have been added and it is as has been said that it is in 1080p. One last thing to you have a referance for the 2 month development on Gundam Mussou just sounds doubtful.



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JDWolf36 said:
Feel free to correct me but I believe the 500k mark for PS3 games has a lot to do with programming for the system being more complicated for the Xbox360. If this was the case it would mean you would need both more experienced programmers for the system and most likely more of them working on the game than you would for the 360 meaning your spending more to produce the game than you would on other systems thus necesitating higher sales numbers. As for a game like RR7 needing to sell 500k to make a profit I believe the game has elements such as cars and tracks that are cross overs from RR6 but I don't think the game is a complete port as extras have been added and it is as has been said that it is in 1080p. One last thing to you have a referance for the 2 month development on Gundam Mussou just sounds doubtful.

One thing that is mostly ignored during X360/PS3 debates is the difference between the companies. Not only is the PS3 architecture much more difficult to program for by nature, but Sony is also a hardware company while MS is a software company.

Naturally, the PS3 is rock-solid. This is Sony's background. They make machines, and largely make them very well. The X360 has its problems in the quality assurance department. MS is not typically a hardware manufacturer and they're basically teething on the market right now. The hardware specs are fine but the quality of the hardware construction is questionable at best.

Inversely, read a few interviews by independent developers and they, without fail, will say that Microsoft provides developer tools that far surpass anything ever offered by Sony. It's a strongpoint for MS while it's a weak point for Sony. MS has decades of experience on how to provide tools to third party developers on their platforms.

I think this sums up the current market right now. Consumers balk at the X360 because they have been prone to failure. Developers balk at the PS3 because the 360 is cheaper and easier to develop games for. MS also provides much more help should you ever run into problems with development. It's their specialty. I've heard of multiple developers saying that they ran into problems on the 360, called MS, and had a rep immediately help them start solving the problem. I've never heard anything like that from a developer on a Sony platform.

I'm not touting one company over another, they're just very different and they come from very different backgrounds. Each has their strengths and weaknesses.




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JDWolf36 said:
Feel free to correct me but I believe the 500k mark for PS3 games has a lot to do with programming for the system being more complicated for the Xbox360. If this was the case it would mean you would need both more experienced programmers for the system and most likely more of them working on the game than you would for the 360 meaning your spending more to produce the game than you would on other systems thus necesitating higher sales numbers. As for a game like RR7 needing to sell 500k to make a profit I believe the game has elements such as cars and tracks that are cross overs from RR6 but I don't think the game is a complete port as extras have been added and it is as has been said that it is in 1080p. One last thing to you have a referance for the 2 month development on Gundam Mussou just sounds doubtful.

For the most part "programming" for the PS3 is the cheap part of development ...

There are (essentially) 3 situations:

  1. You're a large developer with a centeralized team that creates your tools and technology (essentially your "engine"); these will be used across several dozen projects so it is a very small "per-game" cost.
  2. You're a mid sized developer who will licence your engine and most of your tools for a fraction of the cost of developing it yourself; the Unreal 2 engine was priced at $350,000 per project when it was new, I imagine the Unreal 3 engine would be (somewhat) similar.
  3. You're too small of a developer to afford either of these options which means you (likely) can not afford to create the graphical assets to push the PS3

The reality is that it is the graphical assets which are so expensive to create ... Why developers complain about the PS3 more than the XBox 360 is that Microsoft encourages multiplatform XBox 360 and PC development which (sort of) reduces the development cost per-platform on Microsoft exclusive projects.



threads like this are always good for a lol. Without a doubt, Insomiacs is the most happy PS3 developer +1 million in sales for their launch title.