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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Um, NX was NOT delayed!

I wonder if HBM2 RAM might also be a reason for the delay. I've long suspected Nintendo would love HBM2 ... it has much lower power draw than GDDR5, and takes up much less die space, but provides massive bandwidth comparable to eDRAM (even the 3DS has a fast VRAM pool).

The downside -- HBM/HBM2 tech is very new and hasn't really been mass produced in large quantities yet, but it will be the RAM of the future no doubt. It was supposed to come in graphics cards this year, but a 2-3 month delay seems to be in order.



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RolStoppable said:
Here is the link to Nintendo's website. The question that precedes the quote you posted:

With regards to the financial performance, I believe you said that the fiscal year ending in March 2016 has been about balancing revenue and expenses, while the next fiscal year (ending in March 2017) will be a step towards aiming for Nintendo-like profits. Have these priorities changed at all? It seems like a lot of new endeavors, such as smart device business and amiibo sales, will need to go smoothly in order to realize Nintendo-like profits. If you had to provide one example of an area where you can be sure to achieve Nintendo-like profits, what would that be?

Here's the follow-up question:

Nintendo has been working to restore balance between revenue and expenses and has announced a number of new ventures during this and last fiscal years in order to realize Nintendo-like profits from next fiscal year on. How would you evaluate your current progress on your plans, such as reorganization and business partnerships? What areas need improvement in the future?

It's once again about the fiscal year that ends in March 2017. The closing paragraph of Kimishima's answer:

To achieve Nintendo-like profits, one important factor will be establishing a solid launch for our NX and smart device businesses. I believe the key to doing this is to allocate our resources appropriately to proceed with hardware and software development on schedule and deliver our products to our consumers in a timely manner.

Both in A3 and A4 Kimishima stresses that it's key to keep the development schedule on track and deliver in a timely manner. What else points to a 2016 launch of NX? Zelda, of course. A dual-release seemed like the logical thing to do since quite a while. Now the game is delayed into 2017 to coincide with the NX launch. Nintendo isn't on track with their schedule, that much is obvious. Unless you want to believe that they targeted a March launch all along. Do you believe that?

I already admitted that I was wrong about the year, some time earlier in this thread. I just wish people like you were this adamant when it comes to calling out people who rooted for a holiday 2017 launch of NX. Many of them are celebrating as if they were right, but it's only because of a delay that they got something right. The year, because their other beliefs were shattered into pieces.

And yes, this whole thing bothers me. Can't say that I was happy that the mods singled me out. It isn't good fun when the "winners" can't handle winning.

Answer regarding Nintendo-like profits (response to "If you had to provide one example of an area where you can be sure to achieve Nintendo-like profits, what would that be?"): NX. Also Smartphones.

Notice that the actual question being asked didn't mention 2016-2017. That was just found in the statement prior to the question ("With regards to the financial performance, I believe you said that the fiscal year ending in March 2016 has been about balancing revenue and expenses, while the next fiscal year (ending in March 2017) will be a step towards aiming for Nintendo-like profits.").

Why are you trying to act as though the focus of the question had to be the same as the focus of the answer, when Kimishima's answer explicitly separated the two parts? More importantly, why are you trying to use what was asked AFTER Kimishima said it as some indication of what Kimishima was saying (especially given that that question says "from next fiscal year on", not "for next fiscal year")? You do realise that it was an investor asking the question, not a Nintendo employee asking a "Dorothy Dixer"?

I don't specifically think that they were targetting a March release all along. But I also don't think they were aiming for holiday 2016. I think they were developing with a "when it's ready" attitude, and they ended up with a March release when they analysed how long it would take. All evidence points to them having only recently made a decision - hence why they announced development last year, without any detail, and why they had been saying until the last few days that they would give information about the system "at a later date". They simply weren't ready to start giving details when the details weren't yet set in stone, so to speak.

I don't take a position on the "when in 2017" part of the argument. But here's the thing - as established, the argument was over 2016 vs 2017. Those who said holiday 2017 were in the "2017" camp, while those who said holiday 2016 were in the "2016" camp. Those who said holiday 2017 may have been wrong, but that's not what the bet was about. Note, by the way, that I didn't actually participate in the bet, mostly because I had about 4 different scenarios, none of which involved an NX console (as opposed to handheld) releasing in 2016. And if NX is a single system (and not two systems - handheld and console), which it appears to be, then my main prediction was early-to-mid 2017, although I also said that they could easily sustain until 2018 if they wanted (and it remains my opinion that a 2018 release would have been best - it would have required an extra year or so of treading water, but if it meant a huge launch, it would be worth it).

The problem, here, is that you participated in the "bet", said 2016 as your actual prediction, it wasn't 2016, and you refuse to make good on the bet. THAT is why you're being singled out, I suspect. I see no crow in your avatar. I also notice that you still insist on using quotation marks around "winners". In other words, even when you want to complain about them not being able to "handle winning", you can't admit, truly, that they won the bet. Whether their reasoning was accurate is irrelevant - they won. They are the winners. You lost. 



Soundwave said:
I wonder if HBM2 RAM might also be a reason for the delay. I've long suspected Nintendo would love HBM2 ... it has much lower power draw than GDDR5, and takes up much less die space, but provides massive bandwidth comparable to eDRAM (even the 3DS has a fast VRAM pool).

The downside -- HBM/HBM2 tech is very new and hasn't really been mass produced in large quantities yet, but it will be the RAM of the future no doubt. It was supposed to come in graphics cards this year, but a 2-3 month delay seems to be in order.

HBM2 is fairly pricey for a supposedly mainstream product like the NX, think Nintendo is going to pass on the costs to the consumer just yet ? 



fatslob-:O said:
Soundwave said:
I wonder if HBM2 RAM might also be a reason for the delay. I've long suspected Nintendo would love HBM2 ... it has much lower power draw than GDDR5, and takes up much less die space, but provides massive bandwidth comparable to eDRAM (even the 3DS has a fast VRAM pool).

The downside -- HBM/HBM2 tech is very new and hasn't really been mass produced in large quantities yet, but it will be the RAM of the future no doubt. It was supposed to come in graphics cards this year, but a 2-3 month delay seems to be in order.

HBM2 is fairly pricey for a supposedly mainstream product like the NX, think Nintendo is going to pass on the costs to the consumer just yet ? 

Maybe Nintendo can get a price cut on it since they are locked in to use it for another 4-5 year minimum, so maybe the supplier would be willing to take a little less upfront knowing they will have regular shipments for the next several years. This is probably how Sony got 8GB of GDDR5 which seemed crazy for 2013.



Hiku said:
Wyrdness said:

The delay claim tbh is one I feel that's being thrown around to make up for why it wasn't released during the period they thought it would. Imo Nintendo had a few options for when to release and chose March after looking at several factors like line up and so on.

No, because the debate between team 2016 and 2017 was about the holiday seasons, as it was ultimately about whether or not WiiU would get continued (quality) support for another two years. I think the answer to that is painfully obvious. So anyone who said holiday 2016, their reasoning was correct. What we're seaing now are people from Team 2017 pretending they weren't as wrong, popping the champagne if NX was announced on January 1, 2017, 00:00:01 AM.
And I went on record several times saying Holiday 2016 - Q1 2017. Including in the "Would you like to go on record" topic.

And I said that in case they don't manage to quite meet their holiday 2016 target. So no, this is not about trying to be right, as I was right on the money regardless. Both with my prediction window and my reasoning for it. It's about the very obvious notion that the holiday season is ideal for consoles, and if you release during Q1, it means you tried to do a holiday release and failed for one reason or another.

Games don't always finish in time. And the same is true for launch titles.

The bet wasn't for an announcement, it was for an arrival. No matter what the reason for a March release I was still 100% right.

Get you're facts straight please, there's nothing to be "more right" about, lol.



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Soundwave said:

Maybe Nintendo can get a price cut on it since they are locked in to use it for another 4-5 year minimum, so maybe the supplier would be willing to take a little less upfront knowing they will have regular shipments for the next several years. This is probably how Sony got 8GB of GDDR5 which seemed crazy for 2013.

I doubt any of the JEDEC members who produce memory modules would give Nintendo an overly sweet deal when Nintendo themselves have yet to be convinced that they can sell enough home consoles for HBM to be bought in bulk to make it worthwhile ... 

Getting 8GB of GDDR5 wasn't too far off compared to getting 8GB of HBM ... 

HBM is currently exclusive for chips that measure over 400mm^2 like the GP100 or Fiji ...



Gamemaster87 said:
People want to believe that NX was delayed from 2016 to 2017 because they don't want to admit that they lost vgchartz civil war.

But even a confired delay would still mean we were right, it won't arrive until 2017. It was never about an announcement.

But I do see it as a desperate attempt at trying to be "more right".



I say that they actually planned to release the NX this year's holiday (and that's why they even did that Zelda teaser with "2016" as the release year) but for one reason or another, they had to delay the thing (and of course they also delayed Zelda). It was an internal delay but for the public it really wasn't a delay since we technically didn't have any date.



RolStoppable said:
Aielyn said:

They never said that. They said that NX would be part of their move to Nintendo-like profits again, and that they'd talk about NX in the 2016-2017 fiscal year.

Here's the direct quote:

“One area [where we would generate Nintendo-like profits first] is our NX business, and another is our business for smart devices. I believe that keeping these two endeavors on track will be key to achieving Nintendo-like profits. I don’t have any further details to share about the next fiscal year at this time, but we will explain about our plan and when we will aim to achieve Nintendo-like profits at a future date.”

As you can see, the "next fiscal year" (2016-2017) and "Nintendo-like profits" weren't directly connected, they just occurred in the same answer. It was people like you, trying to justify a flawed belief that the system would release by holiday 2016, that made the connection between two separate things.

Just admit it - you explicitly said, here, that it would release by holiday 2016. You did invoke the "unless it is delayed", but then you rejected the idea of a delay. There is literally no indication that they ever planned it for a holiday 2016 release. But even if it was, you predicted a holiday 2016 release, in a thread where people were establishing whether they believed it would be 2016 or 2017, and you explicitly said "So that's why NX will launch in late 2016". The system is NOT launching in late 2016. There's no wiggle-room, here. You were wrong. Just admit it.

Here is the link to Nintendo's website. The question that precedes the quote you posted:

With regards to the financial performance, I believe you said that the fiscal year ending in March 2016 has been about balancing revenue and expenses, while the next fiscal year (ending in March 2017) will be a step towards aiming for Nintendo-like profits. Have these priorities changed at all? It seems like a lot of new endeavors, such as smart device business and amiibo sales, will need to go smoothly in order to realize Nintendo-like profits. If you had to provide one example of an area where you can be sure to achieve Nintendo-like profits, what would that be?

Here's the follow-up question:

Nintendo has been working to restore balance between revenue and expenses and has announced a number of new ventures during this and last fiscal years in order to realize Nintendo-like profits from next fiscal year on. How would you evaluate your current progress on your plans, such as reorganization and business partnerships? What areas need improvement in the future?

It's once again about the fiscal year that ends in March 2017. The closing paragraph of Kimishima's answer:

To achieve Nintendo-like profits, one important factor will be establishing a solid launch for our NX and smart device businesses. I believe the key to doing this is to allocate our resources appropriately to proceed with hardware and software development on schedule and deliver our products to our consumers in a timely manner.

Both in A3 and A4 Kimishima stresses that it's key to keep the development schedule on track and deliver in a timely manner. What else points to a 2016 launch of NX? Zelda, of course. A dual-release seemed like the logical thing to do since quite a while. Now the game is delayed into 2017 to coincide with the NX launch. Nintendo isn't on track with their schedule, that much is obvious. Unless you want to believe that they targeted a March launch all along. Do you believe that?

I already admitted that I was wrong about the year, some time earlier in this thread. I just wish people like you were this adamant when it comes to calling out people who rooted for a holiday 2017 launch of NX. Many of them are celebrating as if they were right, but it's only because of a delay that they got something right. The year, because their other beliefs were shattered into pieces.

And yes, this whole thing bothers me. Can't say that I was happy that the mods singled me out. It isn't good fun when the "winners" can't handle winning.

What did the mods do? Curious. 



fatslob-:O said:
Soundwave said:

Maybe Nintendo can get a price cut on it since they are locked in to use it for another 4-5 year minimum, so maybe the supplier would be willing to take a little less upfront knowing they will have regular shipments for the next several years. This is probably how Sony got 8GB of GDDR5 which seemed crazy for 2013.

I doubt any of the JEDEC members who produce memory modules would give Nintendo an overly sweet deal when Nintendo themselves have yet to be convinced that they can sell enough home consoles for HBM to be bought in bulk to make it worthwhile ... 

Getting 8GB of GDDR5 wasn't too far off compared to getting 8GB of HBM ... 

HBM is currently exclusive for chips that measure over 400mm^2 like the GP100 or Fiji ...

I'm not so sure NX is a "home" console per se.