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Forums - Politics Discussion - SHOCK CLAIM: Ukrainian fighter jet shot down Malaysia Airlines' MH17

Teeqoz said:
Sharu said:

Two years ago West told us Putin steal 40 billion USD from Russian people. 
Now - according to Panama papers its only 2 billion connected to him. 

So it seems he returned 38 billion USD to Russian people. Good man! ))

Nah, it seems only 2 billion was uncovered from Panama Papers.

Oh come on, didn't you know?  The only company in the world helping to shelter funds was in Panama. /facepalm



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mornelithe said:
Teeqoz said:

Nah, it seems only 2 billion was uncovered from Panama Papers.

Oh come on, didn't you know?  The only company in the world helping to shelter funds was in Panama. /facepalm

Crap, I forgot!



mornelithe said:
Teeqoz said:

Nah, it seems only 2 billion was uncovered from Panama Papers.

Oh come on, didn't you know?  The only company in the world helping to shelter funds was in Panama. /facepalm

I've read that this law company is only the third largest one in Panama that renders this type of service. 2 bn dollars here make you wonder how much he's got hidden in other places. Putin is currently the richest man on the planet - that thing is for sure. Probably the first person that will be able to challenge him will come from China at some point in the future.



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Scisca said:
mornelithe said:

Oh come on, didn't you know?  The only company in the world helping to shelter funds was in Panama. /facepalm

I've read that this law company is only the third largest one in Panama that renders this type of service. 2 bn dollars here make you wonder how much he's got hidden in other places. Putin is currently the richest man on the planet - that thing is for sure. Probably the first person that will be able to challenge him will come from China at some point in the future.

Well, it makes me wonder about more than just Panama.  There are _plenty_ of countries where companies like this can function quite happily.



Sharu said:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/663787/Ukrainian-fighter-jet-shot-Russian-crash-MH17-BBC-documentary

Bbc will show its new documentary. With the information Russia told the world almost 2 years ago. That boeing MH17 was shot by ukrainian jet. So what now? Will any reporter bitch who've made countless articles on 'Putin killed our son' at least say sorry?

Sharu, I know how eager you are to see support of what you want to believe, but even you must admit this is not very convincing if you have actually read what you are linking to.  It's not a documentary about how a jet actually shot down the plane, it's a documentary about people who CLAIM that a jet shot down the plane and a documentary of what evidence they use to support the claim.  Apparently part of the claim is that first a jet shot cannon fire into the cockpit to kill the crew, then another jet used a missile to blew up the plane.  How does the first action make any sense whatsoever? 

The same documentary also examines the claim that the plane was downed by two bombs on board the plane planted by the CIA and Dutch working together. 

I do not know any more details about the program beyond what I read in your link, but I expect it to be about on the same level as documentaries like "Alien Autopsy" and "Did the USA fake the moon landings?"  It's television click-bait. 



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Also, looking at the last line of the story in the link, it says "However, the documentary tells how British investigative blogging site, Bellingcat, supports the official version that a Buk missile was fi red at the aircraft by Russian-backed rebels." My best guess is that in the last five minutes the show says "oh yeah turns out all that stuff is not the truth, but wasn't it fun to watch?"



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Final-Fan said:
Also, looking at the last line of the story in the link, it says "However, the documentary tells how British investigative blogging site, Bellingcat, supports the official version that a Buk missile was fi red at the aircraft by Russian-backed rebels." My best guess is that in the last five minutes the show says "oh yeah turns out all that stuff is not the truth, but wasn't it fun to watch?"

Yeah, as I've said. Russian bullshit propaganda. Again. I can bet that the whole document was financed by Russians, they are very, very active in this field now. Sharu loves spreading this Russian propaganda on this forum, sometimes makes me think that he's paid to do it, I really wouldn't be surprized if he was doing it on multiple forums. I mean, the arrogant claim about "reporter bitches" who were for some reason supposed to apologize Putin for something. If someone didn't care to open and read the link, he'd think that the bullshit Russian claim about Ukrainians shooting it down really was true and Russians were innocent. Disgusting. Mods should take a look at this.



Wii U is a GCN 2 - I called it months before the release!

My Vita to-buy list: The Walking Dead, Persona 4 Golden, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, TearAway, Ys: Memories of Celceta, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, History: Legends of War, FIFA 13, Final Fantasy HD X, X-2, Worms Revolution Extreme, The Amazing Spiderman, Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate - too many no-gaemz :/

My consoles: PS2 Slim, PS3 Slim 320 GB, PSV 32 GB, Wii, DSi.

Scisca said:
Final-Fan said:
Also, looking at the last line of the story in the link, it says "However, the documentary tells how British investigative blogging site, Bellingcat, supports the official version that a Buk missile was fi red at the aircraft by Russian-backed rebels." My best guess is that in the last five minutes the show says "oh yeah turns out all that stuff is not the truth, but wasn't it fun to watch?"

Yeah, as I've said. Russian bullshit propaganda. Again. I can bet that the whole document was financed by Russians, they are very, very active in this field now. Sharu loves spreading this Russian propaganda on this forum, sometimes makes me think that he's paid to do it, I really wouldn't be surprized if he was doing it on multiple forums. I mean, the arrogant claim about "reporter bitches" who were for some reason supposed to apologize Putin for something. If someone didn't care to open and read the link, he'd think that the bullshit Russian claim about Ukrainians shooting it down really was true and Russians were innocent. Disgusting. Mods should take a look at this.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the people being interviewed etc. were shills of the type you are thinking of, but I doubt the making of the documentary was directly influenced by them in the way you are thinking.  As journalistic integrity falls, these kind of click-bait stories get aired. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_autopsy
http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html



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Anything could be, I agree. But the fact we have that its almost 2 years passed and no final results of the official investigation are public yet.



Sharu said:
Anything could be, I agree. But the fact we have that its almost 2 years passed and no final results of the official investigation are public yet.

From Wikipedia: 

The final report by the official investigation team, led by the Dutch Safety board, was presented on 13 October 2015. It concluded that

  1. The plane was brought down by a warhead that detonated outside the front of the plane, causing structural damage to the front followed by mid-air breakup of the plane.[121]
  2. The warhead was carried on a type of missile used in Russian built BUK systems.[121]
  3. The impact killed the cockpit crew, and that no evidence of any conscious action of any passenger on the plane was recorded after impact. Although it cannot be ruled out that some passengers may have been conscious during the fall.[122]
  4. Identified a large area of 320 square kilometers near Snizhne from which the missile could have been fired.[121]
  5. Considering the number of shot down aircraft, the risk assessment by all involved parties was inadequate. Ukrainian air traffic control should have closed the air space, Malaysia Airlines should have chosen an alternative route, and other parties such as the International Civil Aviation Organization did not sufficiently account for risks of flying over conflict areas.[121]

The Dutch Safety Board issued its final report into the crash on 13 October 2015. There were 61 flight operators from 32 countries who flew over eastern Ukraine at the time, all who thought it was safe to fly there at cruising altitude. In the DSB's opinion, there was sufficient reason to fully close the airspace over eastern Ukraine as a precaution. The DSB recommended that states involved in armed conflicts should exercise more caution when evaluating their airspace, and operators should be more transparent into their methods of selecting flight routes.

They found the crash was caused by a Buk surface-to-air 9M38-series missile with 9N314M warhead. The missile hit the left side of the cockpit and fired fragments, killing all the flight crew. The cockpit was then torn off by the impact, which meant it was likely that most passengers were unconscious by this time due to lack of oxygen. Based on evidence they were able to exclude meteor strikes, the plane having technical defects, a bomb, and an air-to-air attack as causes of the crash. The DSB calculated the trajectory of the missile and found it was fired within a 320-square-kilometre (120 sq mi) area southeast of Torez. Narrowing down a specific launch site was outside the DSB's mandate.[28] According to Al Jazeera, the area identified by the DSB was controlled by separatists at the time of the downing.[227]


I don't know why you think the final results aren't public when I found them within five minutes of looking on the Internet.  If you don't believe Wikipedia, then try going directly the Dutch Safety Board which published their investigation just as Wikipedia says.  The site is in Dutch and English; I don't know if a Russian translation is available directly from them. 
The overall crash website:  http://onderzoeksraad.nl/en/onderzoek/2049/investigation-crash-mh17-17-july-2014
The main report PDF (there are several PDFs that make up the complete report—appendices and so on): 
http://onderzoeksraad.nl/uploads/phase-docs/1006/debcd724fe7breport-mh17-crash.pdf
(The part we are most interested in can be found on pages 116-137.)

From page 137: 
The combination of the recorded pressure wave, the damage pattern found on the
wreckage  caused  by  blast  and  the  impact  of  fragments,  the  bow-tie  shaped 
fragments found in the cockpit and in the body of one of the crew members in the
cockpit, the injuries sustained by three crew members in the cockpit, the analysis of
the in-flight break-up, the analysis of the explosive residues and paint found, and the
size and distinct, bow-tie, shape of some the fragments, led the Dutch Safety Board
to  conclude  that  the  aeroplane  was  struck  by  a  9N314M  warhead  as  carried  on  a 
9M38-series missile and launched by a Buk surface-to-air missile system.

Their final report is public and it is very specific.  Surface to air missile and not air to air.  Specifically one type of missile that produces the kind of damage that was on the wreckage and which is used with Buk surface-to-air missile systems. 



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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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