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Forums - Sony Discussion - PS4.5/PS4K Is Codenamed 'NEO' And More Info

mutantsushi on 20 April 2016
SvennoJ said:
mutantsushi said:
SvennoJ said:
Where do you get required from?   
Eurogamer.  Which you seemed to also acknowledge in your follow up: (italicized/bolded)
SvennoJ said:
The fps requirement is so that ps4.5k versions don't run worse due to using too high a resolution, which must be minimum 1080p. 
So higher fps is not likely to be common, it's simply required to be equal or more stable than ps4
Sony really wants Neo support on all games from October onwards. While older titles can have Neo features patched in, the platform holder will not allow new titles to add Neo features at a later date.

Show me required in that sentence.

OK, this is the source.... (Eurogamer)  (2nd bolded heading in article, 3 headings above one you seem to be focusing on)
Still not sure why you're questioning this when you seemed aware of the requirement previously, as I quoted/bolded.

SvennoJ said:

By higher fps not likely to be common, I mean don't expect 30fps - 60fps difference. Most NEO games will run more stable, still with the same fps cap.

OK, by higher fps likely to be common (not universal), I meant likely to have more unique frames in a gaming session -> higher avg fps.
30fps>60fps clearly would be unlikely given specs, although if a game was locked 30 by dev choice (capable of higher variable rate),
then it's plausible it could achieve reliable 60fps, and a dev might go for that if they didn't have other easy/worthwhile FX improvements.

SvennoJ said:

True, also for splitscreen I imagine, no drop in visuals neccesary.  However I was talking about the single player portion of the game.
Which raises another question, if the NEO multiplayer version is full of enhanced smoke and particle effects, which the ps4 base version would not see, wouldn't that be an advantage? Or the other way around, NEO players being able to see ps4 players coming around a corner by enhanced shadows, lighting or reflections.

If a dev is aiming for FPS parity for multiplayer competitive parity's sake, I assume they wouldn't introduce FX which have competitive advantage.

More interesting tangent:  
MS dropped their resistance to x-platform multiplayer, so the broader issue is not merely PS4/4.5 multiplayer disparity, but XBO/PS4/PS4.5 disparity.



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mutantsushi on 20 April 2016
Lawlight said:
mutantsushi said:
In Eurogamer's take on the leak, they discuss how there will be feature-parity across 4.0/4.5, i.e. that gameplay is supposed to be the same...

But then describe it by saying that PS4.0 might allow for 2-way split-screen gameplay, but PS4.5 might allow for 4-way split screen gameplay.
...Which really is a significant difference in gameplay IMHO, but that sort of thing may be technically allowable, apparently.
The last part is pure speculation from Eurogamer. There is no way Sony will allow difference in gameplay between the 2 consoles.

I guess time will tell.  
Honestly, split-screen is marginal enough now, I'd be happy to see it expand, even if being more of a PS4.5 exclusive feature.



Pemalite on 21 April 2016
Nate4Drake said:
Soundwave said:

This isn't for 4K gaming, I think the term "PS4K" just got thrown around mistakenly probably because it does allow for 4K Blu-Ray movie playback. PS4.5 is more accurate, it's a huge GPU upgrade with a moderate CPU upgrade. 

Yep; nobody ever talked about AAA Games running at 4K; and as we don't know for sure if Polaris will be used, our friend above also have no idea how the new architecture works, how much more efficient it is, and how much more memory compression is used, improved shader efficiency, hardware scheduler, instruction Pre-Fetch, etc etc; so, I would say again, let's try not to be rudiculous, and let the experts work on it, they know more than us ;)   

I do know how the architecture works, I have been using PC hardware before it ended up in a console and people started looking at all the shiny buzz words to use in their arguments.
Sony stated it's a newer GCN core than in the PS4. Which means anywhere between GCN 1.1 to 1.2. (It won't be using Polaris/GCN 4 due the feature size.)

Colour compression to save bandwidth will likely still not be enough for AAA 4k gaming.
The other improvements are relatively minor (Context Switching, Task Scheduling)  and won't change the landscape dramatically in GCN 1.2.

The other big improvement is in the Geometry end, it's twice as powerful as GCN 1.0, good thing with that though is you can scale the factors dynamically, so it would literally be like moving a slider between the PS4 and Neo.

I do agree, more information is needed. But you CANNOT ridicule someone for "Guessing" when you do the EXACT same damn thing.

Lawlight said:
Does anyone know how this will translate in terms of difference in games?

Geometry is the big one. More bumpy surfaces.

Lighting and Shadowing and Shader effects will likely be a step closer to the PC, Anti-Aliasing will probably not be as simple anymore either.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

fatslob-:O on 21 April 2016
Pemalite said:

I do know how the architecture works, I have been using PC hardware before it ended up in a console and people started looking at all the shiny buzz words to use in their arguments.
Sony stated it's a newer GCN core than in the PS4. Which means anywhere between GCN 1.1 to 1.2. (It won't be using Polaris/GCN 4 due the feature size.)

We can't conclude whether or not it will use Polaris microarchitecture just from the process node ...

Colour compression to save bandwidth will likely still not be enough for AAA 4k gaming.
The other improvements are relatively minor (Context Switching, Task Scheduling)  and won't change the landscape dramatically in GCN 1.2.

There's other arguably more interesting features to look at from GCN2 to GCN4 like improved cross-lane communication support and VGPR indexing support. Personally speaking I don't expect any ISA enhancements to GCN4 compared to GCN3 if the open source driver code is to be believed but I do expect improvements on other parts like the command processor being able to cope better with smaller batches, video engine enhancements for HEVC10 and other transparent upgrades to fixed function units ... 

The other big improvement is in the Geometry end, it's twice as powerful as GCN 1.0, good thing with that though is you can scale the factors dynamically, so it would literally be like moving a slider between the PS4 and Neo.


I do agree, more information is needed. But you CANNOT ridicule someone for "Guessing" when you do the EXACT same damn thing.


taikamya on 21 April 2016

Next handheld console is going to be codenamed Trinity or Smith. Anyone want to bet?

Morpheus and Neo already down. One of those two to go.



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malistix1985 on 21 April 2016
taikamya said:
Next handheld console is going to be codenamed Trinity or Smith. Anyone want to bet?

Morpheus and Neo already down. One of those two to go.

Sony is not making a new handheld




Twitter @CyberMalistix

Nate4Drake on 21 April 2016
Pemalite said:
Nate4Drake said:

Yep; nobody ever talked about AAA Games running at 4K; and as we don't know for sure if Polaris will be used, our friend above also have no idea how the new architecture works, how much more efficient it is, and how much more memory compression is used, improved shader efficiency, hardware scheduler, instruction Pre-Fetch, etc etc; so, I would say again, let's try not to be rudiculous, and let the experts work on it, they know more than us ;)   

I do know how the architecture works, I have been using PC hardware before it ended up in a console and people started looking at all the shiny buzz words to use in their arguments.
Sony stated it's a newer GCN core than in the PS4. Which means anywhere between GCN 1.1 to 1.2. (It won't be using Polaris/GCN 4 due the feature size.)

Colour compression to save bandwidth will likely still not be enough for AAA 4k gaming.
The other improvements are relatively minor (Context Switching, Task Scheduling)  and won't change the landscape dramatically in GCN 1.2.

The other big improvement is in the Geometry end, it's twice as powerful as GCN 1.0, good thing with that though is you can scale the factors dynamically, so it would literally be like moving a slider between the PS4 and Neo.

I do agree, more information is needed. But you CANNOT ridicule someone for "Guessing" when you do the EXACT same damn thing.

Lawlight said:
Does anyone know how this will translate in terms of difference in games?

Geometry is the big one. More bumpy surfaces.

Lighting and Shadowing and Shader effects will likely be a step closer to the PC, Anti-Aliasing will probably not be as simple anymore either.

I believe you are guessing a lot more than me, isn't it ? I just said that Sony and AMD know so much more than you and me and everybody else here, so let them to do their job, and let's wait for final hardware with all final details, and real benchmarks and Games. Does this make more sense ?



”Every great dream begins with a dreamer. Always remember, you have within you the strength, the patience, and the passion to reach for the stars to change the world.”

Harriet Tubman.

SvennoJ on 21 April 2016
mutantsushi said:
SvennoJ said:
mutantsushi said:
Eurogamer.  Which you seemed to also acknowledge in your follow up: (italicized/bolded)
Sony really wants Neo support on all games from October onwards. While older titles can have Neo features patched in, the platform holder will not allow new titles to add Neo features at a later date.

Show me required in that sentence.

OK, this is the source.... (Eurogamer)  (2nd bolded heading in article, 3 headings above one you seem to be focusing on)
Still not sure why you're questioning this when you seemed aware of the requirement previously, as I quoted/bolded.

 

 

1080p is the mandatory minimum display resolution

I interpreted that as a mandatory requirement for a NEO version, based on the context and that paragraph I quoted. That does not imply a game must have a NEO version, yet if it does, that version must be at least 1080p. Or in other words, you can't advertise a game having NEO enhancements and not run in 1080p or greater.

Not all games need NEO versions, why would certain indies bother? What can remasters of old adventure games do. Kinda rules out any chance of ps3 BC on NEO as well :p


For multiplayer I guess it depends on whether it's p2p or through a dedicated server. Maye the end of p2p multiplayer. (p2p multiplayer between xb1 and ps4, don't think so)



HoloDust on 21 April 2016
Nate4Drake said:
Pemalite said:

I do know how the architecture works, I have been using PC hardware before it ended up in a console and people started looking at all the shiny buzz words to use in their arguments.
Sony stated it's a newer GCN core than in the PS4. Which means anywhere between GCN 1.1 to 1.2. (It won't be using Polaris/GCN 4 due the feature size.)

Colour compression to save bandwidth will likely still not be enough for AAA 4k gaming.
The other improvements are relatively minor (Context Switching, Task Scheduling)  and won't change the landscape dramatically in GCN 1.2.

The other big improvement is in the Geometry end, it's twice as powerful as GCN 1.0, good thing with that though is you can scale the factors dynamically, so it would literally be like moving a slider between the PS4 and Neo.

I do agree, more information is needed. But you CANNOT ridicule someone for "Guessing" when you do the EXACT same damn thing.

Geometry is the big one. More bumpy surfaces.

Lighting and Shadowing and Shader effects will likely be a step closer to the PC, Anti-Aliasing will probably not be as simple anymore either.

I believe you are guessing a lot more than me, isn't it ? I just said that Sony and AMD know so much more than you and me and everybody else here, so let them to do their job, and let's wait for final hardware with all final details, and real benchmarks and Games. Does this make more sense ?

Where's the fun in that?

Before PS4 was revealed there was lot of guesstimating around here what it might pack - I remember few of us discussing 7970m (downclocked mobile 7870) as GPU and 8-core AMD as CPU with 8GB of RAM...let's say a lot of folks here (who have no technical knowledge) thought that was ridiculous...

In the end we pretty much nailed GPU (that's more or less what's inside PS4, minus 2 CUs for better yields) and RAM, we missed on CPU, it was indeed 8-core, but Jaguar, not from FX line - Sony decided to go with cheaper and low TDP solution, which is sensible business desicion, but bottlenecks PS4 in some cases.

Anyway, if you stick around here, there will always be guesstimates when there is new hardware on horizon, and some of them will be right, some of them not, some will come from random people and some from people who actually know a thing or two about hardware, but don't call people ridicilous just cause you trust that platform holders and/or manufacturers are flawless and always make the best solution, because, due to financial reasons, that is not how real world works.