Don't expect the first generation of the Oculus/Vive to last longer then 2 years.

1200P is really low (let alone 1080P on the PSVR) so they will get replace by 1600p on the second gen and 2160P (4K) on the third gen.

Are we setting up posts to determine what is dead and what is alive on here now?, despite the market not even being fully out there. If you consider 5 million for PSVR to be successful then the same would go for the others, no need to warp rules to benefit one over the other two.

When you start including all the "minor" headsets, yeah, it's a pretty crowded space. In this thread I'm really just focusing on what I consider to be the three major headsets (Gear VR notwithstanding).

Hence why I just said any iterations released within 5 years for my Oculus bar for success.

Are we seeing things that aren't there now? Where did I try to determine that anything was dead, or anything was alive? Where did I warp rules to benefit one over the other two? First of all, in my op, I say that my bar for success for Oculus is also 5 million, but it's foolish to have the same bar for all headsets, completely ignoring all other factors. Headsets like StarVR can be successful without selling 5 million. It's just like I wouldn't have the same bar for success for the iphone 7 and the Xperia Z5 or whatever.

In nearly every VR thread I've seen you complain about other people proclaiming PCVR to be dead, often without anyone actually doing that in the thread. FYI I believe PSVR is much more dependent on decent sales than PCVR is, because due to the openness of the PC platform, it will get support either way, through mods etc. On the other hand, the PSVR pretty much needs a somewhat decent userbase to receive support. What this means is basically I think there's no real way PCVR can fail altogether. The PSVR on the other hand has a very real chance of crashing and burning completely. Now please, not everyone is out to proclaim PCVR as dead, so stop acting like it.

Propably Oculus because it's gonna be used by not only gamers, but also businesses

Well I mean in the sense, of the product being adopted to gaming culture, kinect level of sucess, just means it will fade away. 

I don't see them recouping the R&D costs on these iterations, any profit they're making on manufacturing these devices is being reinvested, they're each developing a brand/platform which they can lean on in the future to target a more mainstream audience with cheaper devices not reliant on external hardware.

To gauge success you have to look 3-5 years down the line and see whether software/services are still being developed with VR in mind. Then further down the line, whether iterations are being made with the mainstream in mind.

That being said, sales aren't unimportant to success, otherwise what incentive is their for developers. 5-10m sounds good for developers, people who have invested in these devices have more incentive to purchase software at higher than normal attach rates so I don't think they need to be selling in the 10s of millions to be successful in that regard, then it's just down to the quality of the software itself.

You and me, we are always going to see the picture differently. You see random estimated numbers, I see a post being set up, a goal of sorts. Months later I imagine said estimated numbers will be brought up if not altered and then used again once sales data comes out, thus showing that the estimated numbers were in fact meant as a way to determine what lives and what dies, because believe it or not this site loves to run with numbers, to determine what is awesome and what is bad, that's just the sort of discussion that happens on this site, I don't see it on sites like the Escapist or Destructoid who also discuss games, they just don't care for what lives or dies, they only care about what they like.

The way you see proclamation is different to you than it is to me, you want to see a more vocal and direct proclamation, there are other ways of doing it without being so direct and up front but whatever helps you I guess. I don't have to act that which I see, just because you don't see it doesn't men I don't see it around the web or outside the net itself, please stop trying to dictate what I can and cannot see, if all you're going to do is constantly clash with me alone then simply don't talk to me, because that also seems to happen every thread you have, you instantly want to butt heads with me (really not hard to tell that you don't like me either but lets pretend you say you do and I'll have to take your solemn word for it like everything else).

And it (BTW I presume you mean the PSVR) would have to have a 50% attach rate for you to consider it as having been adopted by gaming culture? We are talking about it having to sell like 60 million units (depending on what the PS4 does) which is a shittonne more than quite a few consoles that are beloved in gaming culture sold.

Noooo, all three of them having that attach rate with consoles. So Vive/Oculus/PSVR having about 50-60million for this generation, but again I am defining success as changing gaming to new standard, it totally does not need that to be actually successful, but I do not want something like Wii Mote/Move/Kinect, where it is wasted potiential. Honestly lets throw the total number aside, I just want it to not be this thing that is one off.