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Forums - Movies & TV - Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice Reviews - 31% RT

Lawlight on 23 March 2016
Skullwaker said:

I still find it strange how they're trying this shared universe film thing without really giving any of the heroes their own solo film aside from Superman.

Yeah, there was the Dark Knight trilogy but that didn't represent Affleck's Batman. And now they're just gonna get Wonder Woman in before the first Justice League movie and then another few films before the second part, and then Cyborg after. It's just a mess in my opinion. I don't even care about Marvel's movies that much but they paced everything so much better.

So, you find Civil War to be strange?



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mornelithe on 23 March 2016
Lawlight said:
JWeinCom said:

It also seems to be very common for people to try and strawman opposing arguments to make them seem less valid.  People have offered plenty of legitimate reasons to have doubted the film that go far beyond differences between the MCU and Ben Affleck.  Critics actually seem unanimous in their praise for Affleck, and they still didn't like the movie.

Irrespective of whether there are other valid criticisms, these ones aren't valid. And yet, we're still seeing them. Just look at this thread.

They're not valid to you, then again, your opinion isn't valid to others.  So, we've established that nobodies opinion matters to anyone else.



Lawlight on 23 March 2016
mornelithe said:
Lawlight said:

Irrespective of whether there are other valid criticisms, these ones aren't valid. And yet, we're still seeing them. Just look at this thread.

They're not valid to you, then again, your opinion isn't valid to others.  So, we've established that nobodies opinion matters to anyone else.

No, they're not valid because they have nothing to do with the movie per se. You don't like Ben Affleck. Ok. That doesn't make this movie bad. This franchise doesn't follow a formula established by another. That doesn't mean that it's bad. So, they're not valid.



mornelithe on 23 March 2016
Lawlight said:
mornelithe said:

They're not valid to you, then again, your opinion isn't valid to others.  So, we've established that nobodies opinion matters to anyone else.

No, they're not valid because they have nothing to do with the movie per se. You don't like Ben Affleck. Ok. That doesn't make this movie bad. This franchise doesn't follow a formula established by another. That doesn't mean that it's bad. So, they're not valid.

Not valid to you.  Again, doesn't matter what caveats you're putting on it.  Everyone makes their own decisions.  You are correct though, my decision not to see it in theaters has absolutely nothing to do with the movies quality.  And everything to do with principles.  Fuck Ben Affleck.



JWeinCom on 23 March 2016
Dark_Feanor said:
JWeinCom said:

It also seems to be very common for people to try and strawman opposing arguments to make them seem less valid.  People have offered plenty of legitimate reasons to have doubted the film that go far beyond differences between the MCU and Ben Affleck.  Critics actually seem unanimous in their praise for Affleck, and they still didn't like the movie.

It's clearly a matter of what people expect from a comic book movie.

And many of those critics expected or hope for a Mavel style movie. Just like MoS they are complain using a idealised image of what Superman and Batman should be or should do. Remember how some complained that the Batmobile had guns... but even Nolan's had gun.

There is no scape from that unless one make a master piece like The Dark Knight. It's not a easy task.

You should whatch "The death of Superman Lives". Studios are usualy very afraid of taking risk. And just like SW TFA showed it pays off doing the basics.

I disagree.  I can't speak for BvS, but going with Man of Steel, it's just a bad movie.

Zack Snyder tries to pull off Christopher Nolan and fails.  He manages to emulate Nolan's complete inability to make characters that feel like humans rather than symbols.  However, unlike Nolan's better films, the philosophical underpinnings are too weak to compensate for this.  We wind up with unlikable characters against a pseudophilosophical backdrop.  Please remind me why I'm supposed to like Superman, or why I should give a shit about Lois Lane.

There is also the matter of making the movie fit the characters.  Yes, you can take risks, but you still have to realize you're making a Superman movie.  There is a reason this character is beloved, and you can offer a unique take, but you can't completely throw everything out.  They took the overwhelming senses schtick from Daredevil, X-men's protecting a world that hates and fears him thing, and throw a big gloomy dallop of Batman envy on top of it.

Apologists are going with "oh people don't like it because it's not marvel" or "oh people don't like it cause it's too philosophical" and so on so forth... but it could also be that it's just a shitty movie.



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Metrium on 23 March 2016

I don't care about critics, I'm still super excited and going to watch it tomorow.

It seems that every marvel movies get a pass no matter how weak story wise. The same ''that movie is just for fun, 9/10!'' excuse is always used for them. Meanwhile a DC movie is scrutinized and criticised to every stupid details.

For example. Man of Steel. I LOVED the movie. It is easely in my top 10 movies. The action was great, the villain was also great with real motivations that made you understand him. But ppl blasted the movie for having...too much destruction? Srsly? wtf? Yet no one says a word when avengers ends with new york destroyed. And who cares if there is alot of deaths? Not every movie has to be a disney movie where no one dies because of conviniant reasons.

For real, I've read two reviews that complained about the movie being too serious or for having not enough jokes. One of them even followed that comment by saying that it was why we are better off waiting for marvel's next movie instead. Fanboy much?

Not all superhero movies needs jokes and some funny mood stamped into it. Some can actualy try to be more serious or artistic (I'm not saying that this movie is artistic, but imo Watch Men was, and that movie was also blasted on by critics).



 

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Lawlight on 23 March 2016
mornelithe said:
Lawlight said:

No, they're not valid because they have nothing to do with the movie per se. You don't like Ben Affleck. Ok. That doesn't make this movie bad. This franchise doesn't follow a formula established by another. That doesn't mean that it's bad. So, they're not valid.

Not valid to you.  Again, doesn't matter what caveats you're putting on it.  Everyone makes their own decisions.  You are correct though, my decision not to see it in theaters has absolutely nothing to do with the movies quality.  And everything to do with principles.  Fuck Ben Affleck.

Since you already made your mind about the movie before seeing it, in effect, you cannot actually have an opinion on the movie, as you haven't seen the movie. What you have is just a decision to not go see the movie.

 

In any case, what did Ben Affleck do to you?



JWeinCom on 23 March 2016
Lawlight said:
JWeinCom said:

It also seems to be very common for people to try and strawman opposing arguments to make them seem less valid.  People have offered plenty of legitimate reasons to have doubted the film that go far beyond differences between the MCU and Ben Affleck.  Critics actually seem unanimous in their praise for Affleck, and they still didn't like the movie.

Irrespective of whether there are other valid criticisms, these ones aren't valid. And yet, we're still seeing them. Just look at this thread.

It's fine to complain about those particular criticisms.  But, if your conclusion is that people just want to hate the movie, then you can't just ignore the other valid criticisms.



Acevil on 23 March 2016
JWeinCom said:
Dark_Feanor said:

It's clearly a matter of what people expect from a comic book movie.

And many of those critics expected or hope for a Mavel style movie. Just like MoS they are complain using a idealised image of what Superman and Batman should be or should do. Remember how some complained that the Batmobile had guns... but even Nolan's had gun.

There is no scape from that unless one make a master piece like The Dark Knight. It's not a easy task.

You should whatch "The death of Superman Lives". Studios are usualy very afraid of taking risk. And just like SW TFA showed it pays off doing the basics.

I disagree.  I can't speak for BvS, but going with Man of Steel, it's just a bad movie.

Zack Snyder tries to pull off Christopher Nolan and fails.  He manages to emulate Nolan's complete inability to make characters that feel like humans rather than symbols.  However, unlike Nolan's better films, the philosophical underpinnings are too weak to compensate for this.  We wind up with unlikable characters against a pseudophilosophical backdrop.  Please remind me why I'm supposed to like Superman, or why I should give a shit about Lois Lane.

There is also the matter of making the movie fit the characters.  Yes, you can take risks, but you still have to realize you're making a Superman movie.  There is a reason this character is beloved, and you can offer a unique take, but you can't completely throw everything out.  They took the overwhelming senses schtick from Daredevil, X-men's protecting a world that hates and fears him thing, and throw a big gloomy dallop of Batman envy on top of it.

Apologists are going with "oh people don't like it because it's not marvel" or "oh people don't like it cause it's too philosophical" and so on so forth... but it could also be that it's just a shitty movie.

I agree with you, and that is the issue of this thread, I see couple of users getting caught up with the smaller complaints and trying to focus them as the only reason critics or users will not like this movie. When the issues range from pacing, overcrowdedness, poor casting choices on villians, Zack Synder inability to capture the theme he is trying to aim for, and so much more. 



 

Lawlight on 23 March 2016
JWeinCom said:
Lawlight said:

Irrespective of whether there are other valid criticisms, these ones aren't valid. And yet, we're still seeing them. Just look at this thread.

It's fine to complain about those particular criticisms.  But, if your conclusion is that people just want to hate the movie, then you can't just ignore the other valid criticisms.

Some people just want to hate the movie. There's no denying that. If you've made up your mind before you've seen the movie, then you just want to hate it. As for actual criticisms that the movie is getting, honestly, it's just personal opinion. There's no right or wrong. It's up to you whether you want to believe the people who didn't like it or those that did.