I seriously hope that you expected to get rebutted on this.  First, can't a younger gamer be a hardcore gamer, or is it an exclusive club you have to be 18 to get into?  Second, Galaxy and Brawl.  How the hell do you not consider them 'hardcore' games (unless hardcore=bloodgutsomgshootzorz!)?  You also pulled the 'less proven, flawed controls' for those games out of your ass.

The only two hardcore games that have flopped on Wii are Zack and Wiki, which got no advertising and only shipped very few, and Manhunt, which was a crap game that sold better on Wii than its' PS2 version.  I challenge you to name one other hardcore game on Wii that has sold badly.

No I'm not suggesting that, in fact I didn't no matter how much you want to misread what I wrote. I'm arguing about things I believe in, I don't care what avatar or nickname stands on the left of what is written. What makes you think kingofwale is so special?

TV and music industry? Guess what, even though the mainstream has its own tastes, I can still watch David Lynch movies... I can still listen to death metal songs, and there is more than enough music out there for my tastes. The Internet and the digital revolution have helped good musicians to survive even without the backing of major studios. The same thing can happen with gaming, and we're already seeing signs of that (indie developers being able to distribute their creations digitally for example). In any case, hardcore games aren't going anywhere even on major publishers.

That's nice... For the PC, there's no one regulating it, so what's your point? For the PS2 did Sony ever regulate it? Or was it just that the passage of time created the situation we see now? Let some time pass and the Wii will also have a balanced 3rd party offering, no matter what the balance is. Right now, it's not balanced because good titles take longer to develop than shovelware.

@thekitchensink: Zack&Wiki didn't flop, it has already recouped costs and there may be a sequel coming. It has legs and it's still selling.

Thats completely false. There will be way more hardcore gamers converting to casual than casuals converting to hardcore.

Why ? Hardcore gamers are around 12-22 years old. After that age they cannot afford to be hardcore anymore (unless they play games for a living but thats just 0.01% of gamers). They get a job, they get a familly, so here is how hardcore gamers became casual.

When my parents were young there were no video games. So they are not into games. Thats why most gamers were hardcore until now. But now we are starting to see a lot of ex hardcore gamers growing up and going casual.

In conclusion the hardcore gamers number will stay as it is, but the number of casual gamers is increasily at a crazy rate.

If the number of hardcore gamers remains the same, so too will the number of hardcore games. Or more to the point, the number of games will balance the number of gamers to get the most profit out of each game.

Adding more casual gamers to the market means there's more money going into the market so the devs will hire new teams/create new studios and thus output more games to make up the deficit. The number of hardcore games made need not necessarily change, just the ratio.

You think there would somehow be *more* third-party hardcore support if there had never been a WiiSports/casual push?

There is a casual cash in on almost every console, I believe MS has had the least (I'm NOT saying they don't have any, just no PS type Bob The Builder, Winnie The Pooh, Kiss Pinball type titles.)

Hardcores do not have a monopoly on the VG market. But they do buy hardcore games. As long as you support the games and studios you like so that they make a profit, they will put out product. It is their job to figure out how to make that profit or die. They might make a game for a more expanded market as well as H/C titles, but as long as they profit from making H/C games there is no reason for them to stop. H/C is not niche (yet), no matter how many h/c people are whining that it is going that way. I don't believe H/C is going away (I just wish the whining would).

In 2007, casual sales did not hurt Bioshock, Reistance, the Orange Box, LOZ:TP, GOW, Halo3 (could be called casual by many), COD4, MassEffect, AC, RE4Wii. And look at how many of these games were $59.99 to cover the costs of developing HD graphics. And they still sold. So did Mario. Simply means more people playing games.

Remember, lots of casual games are popular with H/C gamers as well.. GH/RB/GTA/GT say hi. Casual is not the problem, shovelware of all types is. And every console has shovelware, Nintendo did not create it (though leo-j and kingofwales believe they did). I think Atari created shovelware. I think there is more PS shovelware by leaps and bounds. Wait until development costs go down a bit on PS360 (and they will as technology moves forward), the shovelware will come to them en mass as well.

There will always be some companies willing to put out crap to make a quick buck (both H/C and Casual), but there are those who care about quality as well (also in both H/C and casual games). They prey on those who don't take time to research the games they buy.

Support high quality games and help them make a profit, they will continue to exist. If they don't make these games for a profit, they will either need to find a way to decrease costs or sell more games. But H/C games will continue to exist. Long after you quit gaming.

As an afterthought, I promise you this; Letting studios budgets go out of control and buying games for $69.99 and up (as there are a few of these coming out) will only cause prices to go up across the board. $49.99 for Wii (because of lower development costs) and $59.99 for PS360 is the current standard, but the upcoming games that are raising the pricepoint are doing so because they can, and it will raise prices across the board.

and back on target, WiiFit will be featured on Oprah.

As with all entertainment markets, as the market grows the more diversity is supported within the market and people who feel the need to "defend" the market see (most of) the growth as a negative thing ...

Growing up there was only a light-rock station, a rock station, and a country station on my local radio. Today we have several country stations, several classic rock stations, several "alternative" rock stations, a Rap/Hip-Hop/pop station, and several light-music stations; (not) surprisingly, people who love the classic rock seem to be offended by the existance of a station which actually devotes play time to popular rap artists.

 I don't subscribe to this "There will be way more hardcore gamers converting to casual than casuals converting to hardcore.".  The people who have said this in this thread are talking about other people, and not from personal experience.

I am 33, married, and have 2 kids.  I certainly have less time for gaming, but I actually buy more games, and more hardcore games than I ever had before.  I have more money now, and my taste isn't going to suddenly flip flop. Any other gamers that grew up got married and had kids feel the same as me?  I'd like to hear from other gamers that got married and had kids, or are over 22.  Or am I in the minority, and when 'gamers grow up' you are only playing casual now?

i'm 26, married, kid due in 6 weeks and i haven't had enough time for gaming to even finish Zelda: TP or Super Paper Mario...i'm def in the casual gaming side now...in fact, if not for wii i wouldn't own a console this gen as i had decided not to get a console after ps2/gc since had no time to play anything other than occasional mario kart or gh2...but the wiimote inspired me and drew me back in, tho i still don't have time to play the games

i did get a ds last month as i can play that in bed, at lunch, during commute, whenever so i get more time now on it...loving zelda:tp, looking forward to brain age, professor layton, phoenix wright, nsmb, mario kart, worms 2

You think thats a good thing?