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Forums - Politics - Will a wall truly help the US?

 

Wall for the US?

Yep 76 30.52%
 
Nope. 173 69.48%
 
Total:249
fatslob-:O said:
Why not ?

Every year we get over 200000+ illegal mexicans crossing the border while receiving a $10000+ deficit for each and everyone one of them in the process ...

The wall would likely pay for itself easily in 5 years and if not at the very least in 8 years ...

Immigration is a serious issue in the US and it's one of the reasons why Donald Trump is succeeding in the republican primaries ...

Where did you get the numbers from?

OT: No, walls will not work. It will run up a massive cost for society, it will not prevent people from getting to the US and its prescence will only fuel extremism. And Trump have no idea of its cost, he's a pretty incompetent individual.

 



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Wacth this, just wacth. In 1993, it was all written alreadly.



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Today most hardware design is left to other companies, but when you make hardware without taking into account the needs of the eventual software developers, you end up with bloated hardware full of pointless excess. From the outset one must consider design from both a hardware and software perspective."

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pastro243 said:
Azuren said:

If you were here to see the number of them that come in, both legally and illegally, or if you were to talk to any of the people that flee, then you wouldn't really have much to say. Here's a complete list of Mexicans who are fine in Mexico the way it is:

The rich

The cartel

 

That's it. Everyone else who stays is either incapable of leaving or too stubborn to admit their country isn't theirs anymore.

It's very different to say that most Mexicans (or almost any country) are not happy with the way their country is doing than to say they want the US to take over it. There are more than 100 million Mexicans, they have a good economy and good infrastructure in general, and since we are going by guesstimates, I would bet the number of Mexicans who would want something like that is close to nonexistant.

 

Besides there is no reason for the US to do it, Mexico is one of your biggest trading partners and doing something hostile to them would just damage heavily both countries. I live in Chile and we have ilegal inmigration problems with Peruvians and Bolivians and, now more recently, with Colombians. Still, with all the trouble that comes from it, building a wall and taking hostile actions against them would result in bad relationships and worse consecuences.

This isn't Iraq or any small country in the middle East, Mexico is a big country, with a huge population and a growing economy, any agression towards them would be simply dumb

You know what happens to countries when they are freed from the grips of tyranny and left to their own devices? They do it again. Case in point, Iraq.

 

And there are plenty of reasons not to do something. But if you're going to look for reasons not to do something all day long, you'll never get anything done. And it may be one of the biggest trading partners to the United States, but it's just one of the many cases where America imports more than they export (which means that while there's a lot of trade going on, the US is losing on it).

Honestly, it always seems silly when people so far away from the problem think they know the answers on how to deal with it. You're not in the United States, Mexico, or even North America. You draw comparisons based on immigration in your own country when the similarities end at "there's illegal immgration". Does everyone in Mexico want to move to America? No. Does the Mexican government want to be part of America? No.

Does something need to be done about their rampant corruption and drug trade?

 



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Azuren said:
pastro243 said:

It's very different to say that most Mexicans (or almost any country) are not happy with the way their country is doing than to say they want the US to take over it. There are more than 100 million Mexicans, they have a good economy and good infrastructure in general, and since we are going by guesstimates, I would bet the number of Mexicans who would want something like that is close to nonexistant.

 

Besides there is no reason for the US to do it, Mexico is one of your biggest trading partners and doing something hostile to them would just damage heavily both countries. I live in Chile and we have ilegal inmigration problems with Peruvians and Bolivians and, now more recently, with Colombians. Still, with all the trouble that comes from it, building a wall and taking hostile actions against them would result in bad relationships and worse consecuences.

This isn't Iraq or any small country in the middle East, Mexico is a big country, with a huge population and a growing economy, any agression towards them would be simply dumb

You know what happens to countries when they are freed from the grips of tyranny and left to their own devices? They do it again. Case in point, Iraq.

 

And there are plenty of reasons not to do something. But if you're going to look for reasons not to do something all day long, you'll never get anything done. And it may be one of the biggest trading partners to the United States, but it's just one of the many cases where America imports more than they export (which means that while there's a lot of trade going on, the US is losing on it).

Honestly, it always seems silly when people so far away from the problem think they know the answers on how to deal with it. You're not in the United States, Mexico, or even North America. You draw comparisons based on immigration in your own country when the similarities end at "there's illegal immgration". Does everyone in Mexico want to move to America? No. Does the Mexican government want to be part of America? No.

Does something need to be done about their rampant corruption and drug trade?

 

Good point. Unfortunate people treat this as a black/white issue



 

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Azuren said:
pastro243 said:

It's very different to say that most Mexicans (or almost any country) are not happy with the way their country is doing than to say they want the US to take over it. There are more than 100 million Mexicans, they have a good economy and good infrastructure in general, and since we are going by guesstimates, I would bet the number of Mexicans who would want something like that is close to nonexistant.

 

Besides there is no reason for the US to do it, Mexico is one of your biggest trading partners and doing something hostile to them would just damage heavily both countries. I live in Chile and we have ilegal inmigration problems with Peruvians and Bolivians and, now more recently, with Colombians. Still, with all the trouble that comes from it, building a wall and taking hostile actions against them would result in bad relationships and worse consecuences.

This isn't Iraq or any small country in the middle East, Mexico is a big country, with a huge population and a growing economy, any agression towards them would be simply dumb

You know what happens to countries when they are freed from the grips of tyranny and left to their own devices? They do it again. Case in point, Iraq.

 

And there are plenty of reasons not to do something. But if you're going to look for reasons not to do something all day long, you'll never get anything done. And it may be one of the biggest trading partners to the United States, but it's just one of the many cases where America imports more than they export (which means that while there's a lot of trade going on, the US is losing on it).

Honestly, it always seems silly when people so far away from the problem think they know the answers on how to deal with it. You're not in the United States, Mexico, or even North America. You draw comparisons based on immigration in your own country when the similarities end at "there's illegal immgration". Does everyone in Mexico want to move to America? No. Does the Mexican government want to be part of America? No.

Does something need to be done about their rampant corruption and drug trade?

 

Tyrany in Mexico? Also, I'm certain I didn't say anything about not doing anything about corruption and drugs

Oh, and those fallacies 



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The only way to help Mexico is to completely wipe out their government and start new, and that may not even help. The corruption down there is next level. Most the drugs that come into our country are funded by the the Mexican government. Cartel and government are pretty much the same people, just wearing different mask.



pastro243 said:
Azuren said:

You know what happens to countries when they are freed from the grips of tyranny and left to their own devices? They do it again. Case in point, Iraq.

 

And there are plenty of reasons not to do something. But if you're going to look for reasons not to do something all day long, you'll never get anything done. And it may be one of the biggest trading partners to the United States, but it's just one of the many cases where America imports more than they export (which means that while there's a lot of trade going on, the US is losing on it).

Honestly, it always seems silly when people so far away from the problem think they know the answers on how to deal with it. You're not in the United States, Mexico, or even North America. You draw comparisons based on immigration in your own country when the similarities end at "there's illegal immgration". Does everyone in Mexico want to move to America? No. Does the Mexican government want to be part of America? No.

Does something need to be done about their rampant corruption and drug trade?

 

Tyrany in Mexico? Also, I'm certain I didn't say anything about not doing anything about corruption and drugs

Oh, and those fallacies 

Everything is countrolled through money by the drug cartel, who use force when money won't work. People die over this, and many areas are just simply dangerous to live in now. So yeah, tyrany.

And no fallacies. There's a problem, I proposed an idea. Everyone else is so busy dismantling that idea to come up with their own ideas. Bring me a solution that won't end in another drug regime taking over or the current one maintaining its power. Then I'll further discuss this with you. Until then, you're acting no better than an average politician.



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Surely Mexicans haven't figured out how to tunnel under the existing walls/fences.  I believe they are almost done researching the shovel.



illegal immigration is the opposite of the problem with the US. immigrants, especially illegal Mexican ones, fill in a big part of the lower bracket of the economy, i.e. jobs that educated people do not want. 

those focusing on the need for a 'wall' are really out of touch with how the bottom of the US economy works. you cut off those desperate for low wage jobs and then who is randomly going to fill them? I'll tell you who- people who regularly could get better jobs will be forced to get worse ones because the economy will get damaged.

you break the legs of an economy and it can collapse. again, people saying "We need a wall!" have no idea how many illegals without paperwork are getting low income jobs under the books that help the economy. And the thing is an immigrant from Mexico might actually be happy making the wages they do (in some cases secretly below the minimum US wage), but a lot of born eductated American citizens wouldn't be happy with the same pay (or be able to survive).

 

a wall will only hurt the United States. Mexican illegal immigrants are not hurting the country because at this point the economy relies on them to fill out a low income job bracket (look at like practically every 7-11 or gas station you go into at who's working and figure it out in your head- a lot of those types of employees are being paid behind the books and in many cases aren't citizens).

 

I'm just emphasizing that a wall is stupid and will just hurt the structure of the economy, like a pyramid so to speak. if huge swarms of drug activity was flying into the country in the form of violence that would be different, but its not really happening. sure, some towns that border Mexico are quite violent, but beyond that nothing has drastically changed across the USA because of the influence of Mexican illegals. most of them are just looking for better jobs and lives, and even the lowest paying minimum wage jobs here are in some cases BETTER than what they can get in Mexico



Azuren said:
pastro243 said:

Tyrany in Mexico? Also, I'm certain I didn't say anything about not doing anything about corruption and drugs

Oh, and those fallacies 

Everything is countrolled through money by the drug cartel, who use force when money won't work. People die over this, and many areas are just simply dangerous to live in now. So yeah, tyrany.

And no fallacies. There's a problem, I proposed an idea. Everyone else is so busy dismantling that idea to come up with their own ideas. Bring me a solution that won't end in another drug regime taking over or the current one maintaining its power. Then I'll further discuss this with you. Until then, you're acting no better than an average politician.

Even the wall would be a better solution than invading México lol. I don't know where your notions of politics of mexico come from, but they are an exageration.

 

Oh, and that's not tyrany man, it's a heavily currupted enviorment but I tell you that even institutions from the states have been involved in drug dealing issues. Hell, the crack epidemic was helped by the CIA and that doesn't mean your country is a tyrany and by no means is a justification for any other country to invade and "set things straight". 

 

 

And there is a fallacy when you point out I don't even live there so it's silly that I comment (I did live in USA btw), specially when you show such ignorance in geopolitical terms and international law notions that makes you actually think it's valid or a good idea to take over mexico since "how much they want to move to America anyways"