| Nintyfan90 said:
No there isn't a such thing as a home or handheld console game. You are clearly just describing the power difference in both. Obviously traditional handhelds and home consoles need the games to be adapted across each, but thats only because of the power difference. Power doesnt dictate whether something is a handheld or home console game. If Ninty makes a handheld that as similar specs to PS4, the plats would run the same games. But for obvious reasons handhelds arent made that way. Thats my point, people use power to dictate whether something is for handhelds or not but that doesn't make something a handheld or home console game. If I slapped a battery on my wiiu, guess what? It is now a handheld, just like that lol. It would be no different from 3DS. Thats how I know there is no such thing as a handheld or home console game. Home consoles are just typically more powerful due to no need of being portable. If Ninty slapped together a $700 handheld, we would then see a handheld that could handle Black Ops 3.
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Wrong. It's not just about power. It's about architecture.
Iwata: "Previously, our handheld video game devices and home video game consoles had to be developed separately as the technological requirements of each system, whether it was battery-powered or connected to a power supply, differed greatly, leading to completely different architectures and, hence, divergent methods of software development."
"For example, currently it requires a huge amount of effort to port Wii software to Nintendo 3DS because not only their resolutions but also the methods of software development are entirely different. The same thing happens when we try to port Nintendo 3DS software to Wii U. If the transition of software from platform to platform can be made simpler, this will help solve the problem of game shortages in the launch periods of new platforms."
"...we are going to create a system that can absorb the Wii U architecture adequately. When this happens, home consoles and handheld devices will no longer be completely different, and they will become like brothers in a family of systems." Source
| Hedra42 said:
Nintendo merged their home console and handheld hardware development divisions in 2013 - after 3DS and Wii U were launched. So in answer to your question about what the handheld gains from a fusion in terms of 1st party support, well, it might indicate that in the future, games can be more easily developed for both types, which may result in more games and fewer delays. That is, of course, if NX is unveiled as two separate types of console.
Nintyfan90 said:
More easily developed for both types? Please just stop the theory talk and start talking real world results. What does for "both types" even mean? For example, what would change about a Mario Kart game made for both? Nothing lol, MK8 could easily be a handheld game if the handheld could handle it lol. This is the type of stuff im talking about, this seperation of handhelds and home consoles is all in your head. There is no difference dude, todays handhelds are simply 6th gen plats with screens and batteries.
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Both types means both handheld and home console. And I'm not talking theory talk - it's all real world, set out in the quote from Iwata above. Currently the Wii U and 3DS have different architecture. The games have to be adapted, and not all of them can be at the moment. So my answer still stands - handhelds have everything to gain from a 'fusion'. The current separation of handhelds and home consoles is real.
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Hedra42 said:
The idea that the handheld 'wouldnt gain shit from a fusion', as you so eloquently put it - isn't necessarily true. If the NX were to be a hybrid of the two console types, the handheld portion could be a different animal altogether - something portable that is much more powerful that could handle home console games on the go.
Nintyfan90 said:
A more powerful handheld is somehow a "different animal"? No lol its just a more powerful handheld, which is just a home console with a screen and battery. Even further proof of your pure disrepect for handhelds. Now why didnt I get any examples of what this more powerful handheld could get out of this fusion besides 3rd party support? If Ninty made the New 3DS as powerful as the WiiU, what would this New 3DS gain? Mk8? It already has Mk7. Windwaker? It already has Oot 3D. The point is a more powerful handheld gains nothing because it is now too expensive for a portable device.
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Yes, it would be a different animal because it would have an architecture that is unified with a home console. I refer you back to the quote from Iwata above. The 3DS and Wii U have different architecture. This is something he said he was going to address when building the next machine. We don't know whether the NX will be one piece of machinery that combines both. We don't know whether it will be a home console with a controller that doubles up as a powerful handheld. We dont know whether it will be a suite of different devices - or if it will be something completely different again.
But the fact is, if they build a home console and a handheld that have a unified architecture, all of a sudden they can develop the same game for both types at the same time, and for a much larger combined audience - an audience that is large enough to entice 3rd party developers to develop for. Only then will you get your MK8 on a handheld.
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Hedra42 said:
It may be wise to remember that Nintendo is a dedicated videogame company, where as Sony and MS just have gaming divisions. Having 3rd parties is not about hiding flaws. It's just the way the the other two do their business. Having 3rd party support has the potential to increase the audience - and console sales. Lack of 3rd party support contributed to the Wii U not doing well. Arguing against making a console that will attract 3rd parties is therefore senseless.
Nintyfan90 said:
Now youre just defending what your favorite companies do. Thats nice and all but Ninty would rather expand their base at their own expense and make all the money. They have been doing business like that for decades and they would rather continue than listen to some random on the internet. The argument i presented against 3rd parties is the best theory i could come up with for why a billion dollar corporation would ignore money like that. Maybe your favorite company doesnt mind what ever flaws that comes with kissing the asses of 3rd parties. But for some reason Ninty just plain refuses to do it. Thats quite weird to say the least. Then I look at their financial reports and you would think Sony would show a history of blowing Ninty out of the water. Explain to me how Ninty could make just as much money selling less than half the games Sony does? GBA and GC didnt even sell as much as PS2 or anywhere near the amount of games and yet its heavily abused here Ninty made just as much money during that gen. It makes no sense and clearly points to, 3rd parties arent as cheap as you think.
I never said it was the sole purpose, actually read the thread. Im saying theres no point to NX if Ninty is after 3rd party support. Im pretty much saying they arent after 3rd party support, they are instead preparing for a future without them if Ninty continues to fail to attract them.
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I'm defending what? I'm merely stating facts. Nintendo do things their way, and Sony and MS do things their way. FYI I don't have a favourite company, just an appreciation of how different businesses are run.
As for Nintendo's relationship with 3rd parties - again, I'll turn to the man himself:
Iwata: "Finally, in terms of third-party support, while many point out that Nintendo has traditionally been weak in terms of acquiring it, if you consider the Japanese market, it is fair to say that the number one dedicated video game system that Japanese third-party publishers are focusing on is Nintendo 3DS. This is because Nintendo 3DS has an overwhelmingly strong presence in the hardware as well as software markets for dedicated game systems, meaning that it would be illogical not to do business on Nintendo 3DS."
"...software publishers are not necessarily keen on making games in genres that have weaker affinity with audiences that Nintendo has not been as strong with, where making a huge investment does not guarantee a sufficient return. With regard to Wii U, we first need to create a strong foundation in areas Nintendo excels at and achieve a sufficient sales volume. If we manage to do so, those publishers in the overseas markets who are currently not interested in Wii U will be attracted to the Wii U platform, as they were to Nintendo 3DS. This is going to be our approach in the near future.” Source
And yes, I have read the thread. Unifying the architecture for the next machine has the potential to attract 3rd parties for both handheld and home console, because they would essentially be developing one game across 2 consoles - for two audiences. Unification and 3rd parties are very closely intermeshed, and for that reason, the NX is necessary.
For your final point, if you read the last quote from Iwata, it is clear that he did value 3rd party support, and that they wanted to gain 3rd party support.
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Hedra42 said:
A home console with good 3rd party support wouldn't necessarily stop any decision to unify two platforms, if the unification meant better 1st party support and better 3rd party support across both.
Nintyfan90 said:
And if 3rd party support improves for only the home console, then the handheld is screwed. 3rd parties haven't shown any loyalty to the handheld side of gaming, so Ninty has no reason to trust they will comeback or even want to. History shows us, 3rd parties havent been very relevant in the handheld space to begin with. Why would Ninty take the risk of streamlining everything and only the home console benefit from it? Or are you actually saying Nintys next handheld will be able to handle 3rd party ports? I would love that no doubt but I just dont see it. Therefore only one scenario remains and that is the home console getting all Nintys support and 3rd party support while the handheld is left out.
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If the NX is about unifying the architecture of home console and handheld devices, then it will be possible for every 1st party, 2nd party and 3rd party game to be developed once, and released on home console and handheld devices. From the quotes I have provided, the intention is for 3rd party support to improve in tandem.
3rd party support for 3DS may not have been as good as it was for DS, but you can sift through the list of developers/publishers for 3DS games Here to see there are 3rd parties there.
If the plans for unifying handheld and home console architecture in the NX are true, then Nintendo are not intending for just the home console to benefit from it. I am saying that every game developed could potentially be released on both consoles.
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Nintyfan90 said:
And finally those are the fantasies of so called Ninty fans here, this dream of the home console getting it all from Ninty and 3rd party support is a fantasy. They even try to dream up 3rd party support pouring over to the handheld side to make it seem even more realistic.
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Considering you have wrongly accused me of disrespecting handhelds, and have wrongly implied that my favourite company is MS or Sony, I would not trust your judgement or opinion on anybody else.
