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Forums - Politics Discussion - What do you think about feminism?

 

Do you support feminism?

Yep 35 17.95%
 
Nope 127 65.13%
 
#menimism 33 16.92%
 
Total:195

Considering feminism is a movement to help women get equal treatment, I see nothing wrong with it. People often mistake it as a "men vs women" thing, for some  reason. It's sad and annoying, and just leads to more bickering and hate.



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Feminism supposedly being for the benefit of both genders doesn't seem to have much of a basis in truth, no matter how many times that gets blindly repeated. In theory? Maybe, though reading some early feminist writings makes me wonder about that. In practice? Not a chance. Feminist groups and organizations don't give a second thought about helping men or boys or about equality in general. The feminist lens many of them operate with means they view the entire world in a false dichotomy of "elevates women" or "misogyny." Actual equality has taken a backseat.

Beyond that, some feminists themselves have tainted the association. Dishonest studies and statistical reports, hypocritical behavior, and an intentional blindness to anything negatively affecting the male gender have turned it into a slog of selfish, self-centered, and destructive intentions.

Personally, as someone who believes in equality, I could not in good conscious attach myself to "feminism". It simply is not what it pretends to be.



hershel_layton said:
Immersiveunreality said:

Offcourse i support feminism and all of the other things that we have for human rights.

You need to be aiming at extremism instead of the whole term feminism,cause it is supposed to be a good thing.

I know, I know. It's just that the majority of the people in feminism have become godhorrible.

 

Never said I hate the original goals of it( I always supported it). I just hate the people in it. Couldn't handle them.

I do think its mostly the extremists that gets put in the spotlight by the media,and that can give alot of people a warped image about feminism.

But remember that the extremist part is just a small small fraction of it in reality ,most of them are mothers ,sisters ,daughters who love both genders and we really dont want to discredit them by shooting at such a wide term.



Immersiveunreality said:
hershel_layton said:

I know, I know. It's just that the majority of the people in feminism have become godhorrible.

 

Never said I hate the original goals of it( I always supported it). I just hate the people in it. Couldn't handle them.

I do think its mostly the extremists that gets put in the spotlight by the media,and that can give alot of people a warped image about feminism.

But remember that the extremist part is just a small small fraction of it in reality ,most of them are mothers ,sisters ,daughters who love both genders and we really dont want to discredit them by shooting at such a wide term.

I have no idea how accurate that is, but it sounds reasonable enough. Those are not the ones in power though. They are not the ones changing things.
That small fraction of extremists got Obama to quote not only the 22% wage gap, but also the 1 in 5 women number. That's the scariest part for me. Anita Sarkesian is now in charge of Twitter's censorship board. Zoe Quinn was allowed to speak in front of the UN. *shudders* What is happening?

 

*Edit*

When it comes to the label itself, I don't know. Its very difficult to tell, what does it mean to support feminism? What does it mean to not support it? The good thing is that we can do plenty of good things without attaching a label. Feminism might need a new name and clear, MODERN, goal.



mornelithe said:

Helen Pluckrose wrote a pretty good piece on this, it's quite lengthy, however, this is a good response as to why many no longer feel they can identify as feminist:

http://helensatheistblogs.blogspot.co.uk/2016/02/why-i-no-longer-identify-as-feminist.html

I'm personally egalitarian, equality across the board.

That was a very interesting read.  Thank you for posting that and I'd suggest everyone give it a read.  She makes a lot of sense.

 

 

"Like many universal liberal feminists of my generation and above, I decided to hang on and try to tackle, from the inside, the problems of cultural relativity, science denialism, raging incivility and the disempowerment of women by feminists. This resulted in my being blocked by feminists, told I am not a feminist, called an 'anti-feminist,' an 'MRA', a 'misogynist' and even a 'rape apologist' (I had suggested that the men who invented date-rape drug detecting nail polish were well-intentioned.)I have been told to fuck myself with a rusty chainsaw, and that I am a confused middle-aged woman who does not understand society. Following one encounter with a feminist in which I said I did not get death and rape threats from men, a new account with a male name was suddenly set up which began sending me some."



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FragilE^ said:
Immersiveunreality said:

I do think its mostly the extremists that gets put in the spotlight by the media,and that can give alot of people a warped image about feminism.

But remember that the extremist part is just a small small fraction of it in reality ,most of them are mothers ,sisters ,daughters who love both genders and we really dont want to discredit them by shooting at such a wide term.

I have no idea how accurate that is, but it sounds reasonable enough. Those are not the ones in power though. They are not the ones changing things.
That small fraction of extremists got Obama to quote not only the 22% wage gap, but also the 1 in 5 women number. That's the scariest part for me. Anita Sarkesian is now in charge of Twitter's censorship board. Zoe Quinn was allowed to speak in front of the UN. *shudders* What is happening?

 

*Edit*

When it comes to the label itself, I don't know. Its very difficult to tell, what does it mean to support feminism? What does it mean to not support it? The good thing is that we can do plenty of good things without attaching a label. Feminism might need a new name and clear, MODERN, goal.

True,i do wish we get more precise with using labels as we talk about something negative.

New names do not work as there is extremism in any sort of corner,we just need to pay attention in how to percieve things.(yeah that isnt really a solution either because social reactions are hard too change when the media keeps putting much in the wrong light.)



pokoko said:
mornelithe said:

Helen Pluckrose wrote a pretty good piece on this, it's quite lengthy, however, this is a good response as to why many no longer feel they can identify as feminist:

http://helensatheistblogs.blogspot.co.uk/2016/02/why-i-no-longer-identify-as-feminist.html

I'm personally egalitarian, equality across the board.

That was a very interesting read.  Thank you for posting that and I'd suggest everyone give it a read.  She makes a lot of sense.

 

No problem at all, highly fortuitous timing of this thread, since she'd been working on putting her thoughts on feminism to paper, and only recently finished a few days ago.  I thought she did an excellent job as well.



It is a just cause that has been hijacked by authoritarians



The core ideals of Feminism, equality for men and women, is obviously a good thing but I think it's becoming a case where a few of the more extreme people who call themselves feminists are giving the wrong impression of what it is and potentially harming it in the longer run because of the way they are choosing to portray it. Like the whole twitter thing when #killallmen trended and that video a while back that sort of treated many men like they were destined to be a threat before they had even done anything, I said before I think this is going to have a reverse effect of making people see this stuff and get the wrong impression of it and perhaps push them away from it. Then some people who might ACTUALLY be against feminism will take advantage of these few extreme cases to try to paint and discredit the entire thing as that. 

Edit: My original comment was poorly written so i'm editing this to rewrite it that more accurately portrays what I was attempting to say at the time. 

Last edited by FloatingWaffles - on 16 August 2021

Depends what you mean by feminsism. It's become like "SJW" in that it means pretty much whatever people want it to mean in the moment.
I support feminism in so much as I want equal standing in society for all genders, just as I want equal standing in society for all races.
But to suggest that feminism has no point anymore, just because women in the western world have more rights than they used is a bit silly. What about the rest of the world? I'm not selfish. I'm not going to stop supporting feminsim because "dude, those are foreign women who don't have rights. who cares about foreign people!"

And as far here in the west, while women have made huge strides in recent decades, there is still work to be done, in terms of equality for many people, including women. In most western countries, politics is still resided over a consortium of well-fed white dudes.
I've got no problem with white dudes (I am a white dude!) but they don't dominate politics because they're the only ones qualified or interested in it, it's because throughout society it's still made harder for people who aren't white or who aren't male to attain positions of influence over society.

Yes Women have a lot more power over their lives now days than they used to, just like people of other races and backgrounds and beliefs do. But that doesn't mean there isn't work left to be done, even if that work is about perceptions rather than legally defined rights.