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Forums - Politics Discussion - Bernie Sanders confuses me

fatslob-:O said:

Now your the one making the strawman. I said they can "choose" not to abide by the law but that however doesn't mean it's not their responsibility to follow the law ...

Then how do you explain the fall of the roman empire despite the fact that they still had authorities just before the fall ? 

In the end it is the citizens that must respect the law and you know it ... 

It doesn't get anymore obvious that a nation's rebellion is stronger than the total authorities strength. That is shown over and over again when we look at history ...

Except it's different. Companies are just sending profits to tax paradises which is pefectly legal whereas the citizens of Greece are underreporting their personal income which equates to tax fraud. False equivalency on your part ... 

The former acted within it's own bounds, the latter did not ... 

It's the 99% that's the issue, not the 1% ...

Self-responsibility is about been held accountable for one's own power or control as per Dictionary.com's definition. That means the individual is the one responsible for their own crimes and other things including financial investments. There's no dodging this one for you ... 

Want to know how the Roman empire fell? It was corrupt, the people running it were also mentally mad and they made enemies across Europe who gained the upper hand, very few rebellions actually succeed unless the are people with power helping, why do you think dictators stay in power for years even all their lives? Toppling the authorities is harder then anything for local people.

Where do you think a number of Greek people where sending their money? Timbuktu? Offshore accounts are one of the major issues so no it's not different you're contradicting your whole argument here.

Finally the site has 6 different meanings for self responsibility one of them is on one's own initiative or authority, you know like looking after number 1 like the Greek people were doing, nice try though.



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Wyrdness said:

Want to know how the Roman empire fell? It was corrupt, the people running it were also mentally mad and they made enemies across Europe who gained the upper hand, very few rebellions actually succeed unless the are people with power helping, why do you think dictators stay in power for years even all their lives? Toppling the authorities is harder then anything for local people.

There were tons of successful revolutions in history including the last century and very big ones at that ... 

The power of the 99% cannot be ignored as they are the ones who shaped the world we see today. What you simply say about ousting soverignty simply isn't true. The wrath of the poor is far more stronger than the wrath the extremely rich or those who hold power in politics than you make it out to be ...

Wyrdness said:

Where do you think a number of Greek people where sending their money? Timbuktu? Offshore accounts are one of the major issues so no it's not different you're contradicting your whole argument here.

On the contrary yes it is. Businesses have the privilege of doing such. That action is not meant to be such for the citizens according to common laws. It is the public who deprives each other of their wealth, not the rich ... 

Wyrdness said:

Finally the site has 6 different meanings for self responsibility one of them is on one's own initiative or authority, you know like looking after number 1 like the Greek people were doing, nice try though.

Note how that definition is an "idiom" instead of the common context that I am using it in this case such as definitions 1 and 3 ... 

You can try and argue it as much as you want but I declared the meaning beforehand so you must use it ...



fatslob-:O said:

There were tons of successful revolutions in history including the last century and very big ones at that ... 

The power of the 99% cannot be ignored as they are the ones who shaped the world we see today. What you simply say about ousting soverignty simply isn't true. The wrath of the poor is far more stronger than the wrath the extremely rich or those who hold power in politics than you make it out to be ...

On the contrary yes it is. Businesses have the privilege of doing such. That action is not meant to be such for the citizens according to common laws. It is the public who deprives each other of their wealth, not the rich ... 

Note how that definition is an "idiom" instead of the common context that I am using it in this case such as definitions 1 and 3 ... 

You can try and argue it as much as you want but I declared the meaning beforehand so you must use it ...

The majority of rebllions are crushed, they far outweigh the ones that are successful, when the 1% have armies armed to the teeth and the 99% are fighting with pitch forks 70% of the time the 1% win, the Romans destroyed many rebellion before their own corruption brought them down.  You just have to look at the sytem now, who were in charge before? The rich, who are in charge now? Still the rich, the successful rebellions are backed by others in power.

The is no rule what so ever that forbids citizens from using offshore and non that makes it exclusive to companies, this is a fabrication on your part, again you're defending comnpanies and rich people who do this but nocking anyone else, it's a contradiction to your argument.

You can declare what ever meaning it doesn't make it concrete beyond reason, nothing in the meanings say that it's the job of the people to do the governments work in enforcing the law, responsibilty is a broad term across many situations which is why it doesn't back your stance, the Greek people were looking after number 1 that is self responsibility as well, not to mention you're arguing responsibility yet want to absolve the govenrment of their responsibility in upholding the system, another one rule for one another rule for others stance you've built.



Wyrdness said:

The majority of rebllions are crushed, they far outweigh the ones that are successful, when the 1% have armies armed to the teeth and the 99% are fighting with pitch forks 70% of the time the 1% win, the Romans destroyed many rebellion before their own corruption brought them down.  You just have to look at the sytem now, who were in charge before? The rich, who are in charge now? Still the rich, the successful rebellions are backed by others in power.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_revolutions_and_rebellions#1850.E2.80.931899

Those are the list of revolutions. You could probably at least find 10 for each century ... 

Wyrdness said:

The is no rule what so ever that forbids citizens from using offshore and non that makes it exclusive to companies, this is a fabrication on your part, again you're defending comnpanies and rich people who do this but nocking anyone else, it's a contradiction to your argument.

Hmm, now looking further at it most Greeks are just straight up hiding their incomes which is a criminal offense. There are no mass reportings of Greek citizens opening up foreign bank accounts like you fabricated originally. Businesses are more honest snce they don't want to deal the law sniffing them ... 

I defend the rich people because most of them are honest n the way they conduct business otherwise their wealth would immediately stripped sooner or later by the government ...

Wyrdness said:

You can declare what ever meaning it doesn't make it concrete beyond reason, nothing in the meanings say that it's the job of the people to do the governments work in enforcing the law, responsibilty is a broad term across many situations which is why it doesn't back your stance, the Greek people were looking after number 1 that is self responsibility as well, not to mention you're arguing responsibility yet want to absolve the govenrment of their responsibility in upholding the system, another one rule for one another rule for others stance you've built.

It is the governments job in enforcing the law but that is only ideal when the vast minority of the citizens are law breakers but if almost everyone is a law breaker do you incarcerate everyone or what ? It's clear that citizens must do their part too ... 

The 1% is the the issue. Than you and bye ...



fatslob-:O said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_revolutions_and_rebellions#1850.E2.80.931899

Those are the list of revolutions. You could probably at least find 10 for each century ... 

Hmm, now looking further at it most Greeks are just straight up hiding their incomes which is a criminal offense. There are no mass reportings of Greek citizens opening up foreign bank accounts like you fabricated originally. Businesses are more honest snce they don't want to deal the law sniffing them ... 

I defend the rich people because most of them are honest n the way they conduct business otherwise their wealth would immediately stripped sooner or later by the government ...

It is the governments job in enforcing the law but that is only ideal when the vast minority of the citizens are law breakers but if almost everyone is a law breaker do you incarcerate everyone or what ? It's clear that citizens must do their part too ... 

The 1% is the the issue. Than you and bye ...

As you can see a large amount of those conflicts were lost, it's hard to dislodge the powers that be unless a similar power is backing the underdog or the is instability among the leaders.

The number of Greek owned offshore accounts is in the link I provided earliar about Greek tax evasion, that information comes direclty from a Greek finanace minister himself so no not a fabrication. If you think most of the rich are where they are by being honest and nice then it backs up what I said earlier about you being naive.

The majority of citizens are doing it because the Government themselves were doing it, they had no problem closing those avenues when the EU required it for their bail money, they simply allowed it because they themselves benefitted from it to line their pockets.



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Normchacho said:
hershel_layton said:

His plans for America make me skeptical- $15 minimum wage, free college, universal health care, etc etc.

 

I understand European countries doing so, but America? An extremely important country with 300 million civilians in it? Can Bernie's vision of a country benefit us? 

 

Our debt is already bad as it is. Wouldn't his goals make our debt skyrocket once again?

We already pay more per-capita for healthcare and education that pretty every other developed nation in the world. Going to a European system would likely save us money.

The US spends more on healthcare than any countries for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with a single payer system or whatever system a European country has. All you have to do is look at the extremely high costs of Medicare to see how well the government runs healthcare.



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fatslob-:O said:
MoscowPuzzles said:

Choose your words more carefully next time.

http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/avoidance

Their synonyms but they do not necessarily mean the same thing in differing contexts ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_evasion

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_avoidance

These links above are there to educate yourself for your own sake ... 

I'm not sure why you're providing links to things I've demonstrated understanding of. I guess your ego is hurt. Sorry about that.



MoscowPuzzles said:

I'm not sure why you're providing links to things I've demonstrated understanding of. I guess your ego is hurt. Sorry about that.

How very conceited of you ...



Wyrdness said:

As you can see a large amount of those conflicts were lost, it's hard to dislodge the powers that be unless a similar power is backing the underdog or the is instability among the leaders.

It's not hard to find 10 at least ten successful revolutions for each century ... 

So it happens more often than you think ... 

Wyrdness said:

The number of Greek owned offshore accounts is in the link I provided earliar about Greek tax evasion, that information comes direclty from a Greek finanace minister himself so no not a fabrication. If you think most of the rich are where they are by being honest and nice then it backs up what I said earlier about you being naive.

That link only shows the estimated amount of tax revenues evaded, nothing about the statistics of how many Greek citizens are using off-shore accounts ...

So where is the rest of the 200+ billion euros ? I don't care if there are 10,000, 20,000, or 50,000 people using off-shore accounts cause 2,000,000+ people not paying their taxes is obviously the far bigger issue ... 

Wyrdness said:

The majority of citizens are doing it because the Government themselves were doing it, they had no problem closing those avenues when the EU required it for their bail money, they simply allowed it because they themselves benefitted from it to line their pockets.

Which means that a government reflects their citizens ... 

If that's not the case then a revolt will occur ...



fatslob-:O said:

It's not hard to find 10 at least ten successful revolutions for each century ... 

So it happens more often than you think ... 

That link only shows the estimated amount of tax revenues evaded, nothing about the statistics of how many Greek citizens are using off-shore accounts ...

So where is the rest of the 200+ billion euros ? I don't care if there are 10,000, 20,000, or 50,000 people using off-shore accounts cause 2,000,000+ people not paying their taxes is obviously the far bigger issue ... 

Which means that a government reflects their citizens ... 

If that's not the case then a revolt will occur ...

Again the majority of rebellions are put down.

Those 50k people using offshore are richer than that 2m and have more money tan them combined, the latter was given in the other estimated figures, the offshore make up that missing amount why do you think offshore is used for tax evasion in the first place? It's to hide large amounts that are subject to higher tax.