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Forums - Gaming Discussion - A question concerning economics & minimum wage

 

Should the minimum wage be increased to $15?

Yes, for all jobs. 47 37.60%
 
Yes, but only for certain jobs. 11 8.80%
 
No, only for more professional jobs. 10 8.00%
 
No, not at all. 44 35.20%
 
Other/ N/A 13 10.40%
 
Total:125
sc94597 said:
Dulfite said:

That may be close to the median of all incomes, but I'm sure it's a LOT less than the average of professional (degree requiring) jobs. Take out the minimum wage and non-certified jobs and I bet teaching comes out on the lower end.

Teachers work, often, in the 50-65 hour per week range, a lot more than 40, and we get paid for roughly 33-35 hours of that time that we do work, and the other stuff we essentially don't get paid for. We don't get summers "off" in the sense that we are paid. If we are paid during the summer, it is because we are voluntarily (or being forced by the district) to sacrifice money we get from our paychecks in order to spread it out over 12 months. Many teachers can't afford to take the summer off despite working far more hours and in a far more stressful environment than many jobs so they can't even take a break.

Tenure is something you get after years of working. I'm a 1st-2nd year teacher, still years away from getting tenure. All tenure does, by the way, is make it so someone can't be fired for no reason. If I get bad test scores, I could still be fired with tenure. Prior to tenure, I could be let go randomly for no reason.

Most teachers I know/work with have their masters, specialists, or Phd, and I work in a pretty undesirable environment (low income/high crime school and area). I graduated in 2013 and plan on starting my Masters in the next year or two. Teachers in other countries ARE paid the same amount as doctors and are VALUED in other countries. That's how it used to be in this country.

I pay 14.5% of my paycheck towards retirement. Teachers have some of the highest retirement payments of any job. I won't deny we have good benefits (at least, if your by yourself for sure), but the retirement payment hurts. Thankfully it doesn't go into social security where politicians get to waste the money on ridiculous things and we don't have to worry about the Baby Boomer crisis impacting our retirement age, but it's still a lot of money per paycheck.

Well yeah, because other professional (degree requiring) jobs produce more and have greater costs to get there. Doctors and lawyers have various insurances they must pay into, and go to school for 8-10 years. The same is true for college educators, research scientists, etc. Engineers and programmers make a lot of money from their employment, and have an advantage of being in short supply, while teaching is not so much an under supplied position (as a generalization, certain subjects, such as STEM need a lot more teachers.) As with anything else, wages are subjected to the laws of supply and demand. If there is a lot of demand which the supply can't meet, then employers are going to entice people with higher salaries. If two people can fill every one position, the salaries will drop. 

The average hours teachers work are comparable to other professional jobs, hovering between 45-55 hours per week (think of how much a doctor is on call or the amount of work an engineer/programmer does at home, teachers aren't the only ones who work off-hours.) One must also consider that the teachers working the higher number of hours are the ones who are older and are consequently paid more. New teachers have fewer responsibilities because they are starting out and are not involved in so many extra activities. (Source for this at end of page.) 

I don't see the relevance of your summer comment. For other occupations people must work summers and that is included in the final salary that you look at for being so much higher. Having said that, most teachers do get summer positions elsewhere and can make money on top of their already above-median salary. What is so horrible about that? 

All of my high school teachers except for two had bachelors only in the subject they were teaching. The ones who had higher degrees were paid more (a Biology teacher with a masters in Biology, and an English teacher  working on her doctorate.) Doctors in other countries don't have so many hoops to go through nor as high insurance costs like this one, and teachers in other countries are MUCH more qualified. This is clear enough by the results. Apples to oranges. 

Tenure is something not many other jobs have, regardless. You know you'll always have a job regardless of external factors. 

http://teaching.monster.com/careers/articles/4039-when-where-and-how-much-do-us-teachers-work

 Teachers aged 50 and older who were employed full time worked more hours per week than teachers who were younger- 6.7 more hours than teachers in their thirties and 5.1 more hours than teachers in their twenties

Average working hours per week

Ages 20-29: 37 hours per week

Ages 30-39: 36 hours per week

Ages 40-49: 40 hours per week

Ages 50-59: 42 hours per week

I found this statistic especially interesting since all of the schools where I have worked the veteran teachers seemed to be out the door at the end of the day while the new teachers where still perfecting their bulletin boards and planning lessons. Maybe it’s because those veteran teachers were choosing to do their work at home (see below.)

Those ages/hours aren't correct for most I know, including myself. I myself am 24, about to be 25, and spend way more than 37 hours per week (lol that number is a complete joke) as do other new teachers in my building. And by the way, the hours I mentioned earlier (sometimes reaching as much as 65 per week) is JUST talking about the teaching job (not including clubs, teams, or other school activities that we are involved in).

Again, not sure what kind of school you went to but all the schools I went to had a lot of people that got their masters (most straight after their bach) and most teachers I work with have their masters. I find it uncommon, unless they are young like me, for a teacher to just have their B.S. and not at least a masters if not higher.

And newer teachers have far more trainings to go to than older teachers, so we may not be involved in sports/clubs as much right away but it all works itself evenly. Being a teacher means you are busy, plain and simple.



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Azuren said:
Increasing minimum wage means the fat cats at the top will charge more for goods and services. It's one reason why California went to shit, and why Californians are fleeing to Texas.

What NEEDS to happen is property tax needs to go down across the board, and regulations need to be imposed on apartment complexes so that they can't overcharge (over a dollar a month per square foot is ridiculous, I don't care where it is).

Another thing is these people need to stop assuming they can raise a family flipping burgers at McDonald's. That's a high schooler job.

Lower prices on houses and no state income tax are probably more driving factors for Californians to move to Texas.  You could get a huge house in Texas or live in a little ass house for same price in Cali.  Prices over there are crazy (never been to Cali but I know the gas prices are always high).  Min wage in Cali is 10 though and Texas is set at the federal level of 7.50. 



sethnintendo said:
Azuren said:
Increasing minimum wage means the fat cats at the top will charge more for goods and services. It's one reason why California went to shit, and why Californians are fleeing to Texas.

What NEEDS to happen is property tax needs to go down across the board, and regulations need to be imposed on apartment complexes so that they can't overcharge (over a dollar a month per square foot is ridiculous, I don't care where it is).

Another thing is these people need to stop assuming they can raise a family flipping burgers at McDonald's. That's a high schooler job.

Lower prices on houses and no state income tax are probably more driving factors for Californians to move to Texas.  You could get a huge house in Texas or live in a little ass house for same price in Cali.  Prices over there are crazy (never been to Cali but I know the gas prices are always high).  Min wage in Cali is 10 though and Texas is set at the federal level of 7.50. 

Most people I come across here in Austin (Californian Refugee Ground Zero) always talk about how expensive EVERYTHING in Cali is. Not just homes and rent, but gas and food, too. Anything that isn't priced nationally or internationally (PS4, for example) is more expensive there. And then they start talking about getting involved in the community and voting and trying to change Austin into California. I want to stop them and remind them that they left that state because those ideals didn't work out, but sometimes I feel like many of them are in their own world.

 

That said, they aren't all like that. Some come here and get just as frustrated as the progressive liberal bullshit permeating Austin as the rest of Texas does.



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Minimum wage was designed to rise with inflation/cost of living/productivity, but wound up stagnating a few decades ago. Bumping it up to 15$ would put it at the level it's supposed to be at, and with certain safeguards in place would continue to rise with inflation/cost of living/productivity. The middle class would be healthier/growing and that is good for the economy.



SuaveSocialist said:
Minimum wage was designed to rise with inflation/cost of living/productivity, but wound up stagnating a few decades ago. Bumping it up to 15$ would put it at the level it's supposed to be at, and with certain safeguards in place would continue to rise with inflation/cost of living/productivity. The middle class would be healthier/growing and that is good for the economy.

Except the assholes at the top of every company wouldn't except that, and raise prices across the board to continue making the disgusting amount of money they're making. So no, it wouldn't help. It would cause a depression or inflation.



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Azuren said:
SuaveSocialist said:
Minimum wage was designed to rise with inflation/cost of living/productivity, but wound up stagnating a few decades ago. Bumping it up to 15$ would put it at the level it's supposed to be at, and with certain safeguards in place would continue to rise with inflation/cost of living/productivity. The middle class would be healthier/growing and that is good for the economy.

Except the assholes at the top of every company wouldn't except that, and raise prices across the board to continue making the disgusting amount of money they're making. So no, it wouldn't help. It would cause a depression or inflation.

That exact argument was used to prevent the implementation of minimum wage in the US inthe first place.  The doomsday prophecy didn't turn out to be true.  That exact argument was used to prevent spikes in minimum wage in the US before.  Again, the doomsday prophecy didn't turn out to be true.  

There's a historical precedent for minimum wage rising without triggering a depression or runaway inflation.  In fact, there's a historical precedent for a healthy minimum wage playing a good role in a healthy economy.

In the US, minimum wage has stagnated when compared to cost of living; the middle class has been shrinking for decades and objects in motion tend to stay in motion until acted upon by an equal or greater force.  When minimum wage does not meet the cost of living, the middle class disappears.  If you want to picture the US without a middle class, take a look at how Mexico is coping.

Believe whatever you want, though.  



Azuren said:
sethnintendo said:

Lower prices on houses and no state income tax are probably more driving factors for Californians to move to Texas.  You could get a huge house in Texas or live in a little ass house for same price in Cali.  Prices over there are crazy (never been to Cali but I know the gas prices are always high).  Min wage in Cali is 10 though and Texas is set at the federal level of 7.50. 

Most people I come across here in Austin (Californian Refugee Ground Zero) always talk about how expensive EVERYTHING in Cali is. Not just homes and rent, but gas and food, too. Anything that isn't priced nationally or internationally (PS4, for example) is more expensive there. And then they start talking about getting involved in the community and voting and trying to change Austin into California. I want to stop them and remind them that they left that state because those ideals didn't work out, but sometimes I feel like many of them are in their own world.

 

That said, they aren't all like that. Some come here and get just as frustrated as the progressive liberal bullshit permeating Austin as the rest of Texas does.

My parents moved to Austin in 2000 from Ohio and I've been in Austin since about 2006 (was going to TTU but would visit Austin during breaks).  It doesn't help that almost all the articles "best place to live" , "best place to work" have Austin at or near the top.  Now there are too many people here and the roads were never built up (and if they do build a road or make it wider then it is almost always tolled).  I don't think I can last too many more years in Austin area before I want to move to somewhere less populated.



sethnintendo said:
Azuren said:

Most people I come across here in Austin (Californian Refugee Ground Zero) always talk about how expensive EVERYTHING in Cali is. Not just homes and rent, but gas and food, too. Anything that isn't priced nationally or internationally (PS4, for example) is more expensive there. And then they start talking about getting involved in the community and voting and trying to change Austin into California. I want to stop them and remind them that they left that state because those ideals didn't work out, but sometimes I feel like many of them are in their own world.

 

That said, they aren't all like that. Some come here and get just as frustrated as the progressive liberal bullshit permeating Austin as the rest of Texas does.

My parents moved to Austin in 2000 from Ohio and I've been in Austin since about 2006 (was going to TTU but would visit Austin during breaks).  It doesn't help that almost all the articles "best place to live" , "best place to work" have Austin at or near the top.  Now there are too many people here and the roads were never built up (and if they do build a road or make it wider then it is almost always tolled).  I don't think I can last too many more years in Austin area before I want to move to somewhere less populated.

I35 needs two more lanes per direction, and they need to abolish those damn tolls. I'd use 45 to go to work if it didn't cost me money.

But yeah, Austin proper has a lot of jobs, but you don't really want to live in the city limits. I'm in Round Rock, and I'm looking to move to Pflugerville soon.



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www.twitch.tv/AzurenGames

hershel_layton said:

Bernie Sanders has a goal of making a $15 minimum wage, ranging from librarians to your McDonalds cashiers. I've been thinking about it a lot lately, but wouldn't that cause more harm than good?

I'm not exactly the smartest in economics, so please bare with me. If we drastically increase the minimum wage, wouldn't that result into inflation, thus making the wage increase redundant and useless? 

Again, I'm not the most educated on American economics. I'm still learning about it, so don't be surprised if I have misunderstood this subject.

It doesn't cause significant inflation, because it mostly increases the money available to the poor (because wealthy people generally aren't working minimum wage jobs). As a result, there ends up being more market activity.

The argument put forward for why increasing the minimum wage would increase inflation is that companies would need to put up their prices to cover the increased cost of employing people. But with more market activity, they get more sales, and thus more profit, without increasing their prices.

Mind you, a very sudden, significant jump in minimum wage would probably cause significant inflation in the short term, because the cost of employment goes up but the market hasn't had a chance to see the flow-on effects. That's why increases in minimum wage are usually staggered somewhat.

Even if there were increased inflation, it would increase much less than the increase in the minimum wage. This is because the underlying costs of products isn't changing - it's only the profit that needs to compensate, not the full price of the product.