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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Corporate Health of Sony, Nintendo and MS

Soundwave said:
From a financial POV, Nintendo is a very smartly run "little" (employee size) company that punches far above its weight.

 

Yep, in terms of employees they are a much smaller company than Ubisoft & Electronic Arts.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

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SpokenTruth said:

Several people seem to think that winning or losing in the console race is a direct indicator of corporate health and the security of that company's future.

Below is a list of a few current (end of 2015) aspects of each that company that should shed more light on exactly how successful or in danger they are.  Unfortunately, this will compare the entire companies rather than just their game segments but for the sake of a company being solvent, it's relevant.

 

Company Nintendo* Sony* Microsoft
Cash and Short Term Investments $7.6 Billion $15.7 Billion $96.5 Billion
Total Assets $11.3 Billion $132.0 Billion $176.2 Billion
Total Liabilities $1.5 Billion $107.6 Billion $96.1 Billion
Total Debt $103,000 $18 Billion $7.5 Billion


* - All figures converted from Japanese Yen to USD.

So I want to highlight two big things here that I have known, and no one else ever seems to get:

1) Yes Nintendo has a ton of cash on hand, and no debts.  But Sony has WAY more cash, and if they got into trouble they have 12x the assets to sell off if they need help staying afloat.   Nintendo DOES NOT.  If they run out of money they are screwed!

 

2) There is no doubt that MS has far more money than Sony.  However they only have like 30% more assets.  They are fairly comparible companies in terms of size - MS cannot just bully Sony around and shove their way to victory like a lot of people seem to think here.





Prediction for console Lifetime sales:

Wii:100-120 million, PS3:80-110 million, 360:70-100 million

[Prediction Made 11/5/2009]

3DS: 65m, PSV: 22m, Wii U: 18-22m, PS4: 80-120m, X1: 35-55m

I gauruntee the PS5 comes out after only 5-6 years after the launch of the PS4.

[Prediction Made 6/18/2014]

SpokenTruth said:
AlfredoTurkey said:
Wouldn't it be more accurate to compare Microsoft and Sony's game division to Nintendo?

No, because that's not the point.  This shows that if a company has multiple divisions and 1 part is doing horribly, the rest can help keep that division going.  Conversely, if most division are doing bad but 1 division is doing good and all you focus on is that good division, you are not seeing the full picture.

Nintendo is the only one of the 3 where focusing on games only can tell you the financial health and future of that company.  For the other 2, you have to consider all divisions else you may end up with an unrealistic expectation of the company as whole and their future.

Better stated, Sony and MS have other divisions that can save or doom their companies even if their gaming divisions are doing good/bad.  But if all you see is the games part, you'd never know if that company is doing well or barely treading water.



If that was your intent then yeah, I agree. I guess I misunderstood the point of the thread. 





Eddie_Raja said:
SpokenTruth said:

Several people seem to think that winning or losing in the console race is a direct indicator of corporate health and the security of that company's future.

Below is a list of a few current (end of 2015) aspects of each that company that should shed more light on exactly how successful or in danger they are.  Unfortunately, this will compare the entire companies rather than just their game segments but for the sake of a company being solvent, it's relevant.

 

Company Nintendo* Sony* Microsoft
Cash and Short Term Investments $7.6 Billion $15.7 Billion $96.5 Billion
Total Assets $11.3 Billion $132.0 Billion $176.2 Billion
Total Liabilities $1.5 Billion $107.6 Billion $96.1 Billion
Total Debt $103,000 $18 Billion $7.5 Billion


* - All figures converted from Japanese Yen to USD.

So I want to highlight two big things here that I have known, and no one else ever seems to get:

1) Yes Nintendo has a ton of cash on hand, and no debts.  But Sony has WAY more cash, and if they got into trouble they have 12x the assets to sell off if they need help staying afloat.   Nintendo DOES NOT.  If they run out of money they are screwed!

 

2) There is no doubt that MS has far more money than Sony.  However they only have like 30% more assets.  They are fairly comparible companies in terms of size - MS cannot just bully Sony around and shove their way to victory like a lot of people seem to think here.



 

"Assets" are kind hard to gauge in terms of real actual worth, in a scenario where you have to sell off assets to raise cash, you're unlikely to get market value for those said assets. 

Like you can say you have this TV factory that's worth $100 million, ok that qualifies as a $100 million dollar asset technically, but if you're selling because the TV busniess is shit, it's unlikely anyone is going to pay you list value for that factory, say you end up getting $20 million for it. 



SpokenTruth said:
AlfredoTurkey said:
Wouldn't it be more accurate to compare Microsoft and Sony's game division to Nintendo?

No, because that's not the point.  This shows that if a company has multiple divisions and 1 part is doing horribly, the rest can help keep that division going.  Conversely, if most division are doing bad but 1 division is doing good and all you focus on is that good division, you are not seeing the full picture.

Nintendo is the only one of the 3 where focusing on games only can tell you the financial health and future of that company.  For the other 2, you have to consider all divisions else you may end up with an unrealistic expectation of the company as whole and their future.

Better stated, Sony and MS have other divisions that can save or doom their companies even if their gaming divisions are doing good/bad.  But if all you see is the games part, you'd never know if that company is doing well or barely treading water.



This really isn't how the things works, and i think that this thread was a Personal atack to Sony's finnance, because the main point of your thread is "Sony, is making profit with Playstation, but will go Bankrupt because of other divisions and there will be no future of purchasing a Playstation, and they will not make another console".

 

a Multi-billion company will never go Bankrupt because they have a lot of resources to dont go Bankrupt, they can make the company Smaller to prevent this, re-make the contract with their Debts to pay over time, and a lot of other things.

 

Who run any multi-billion company are hundreds of men and they have a lot of money also they are not Retard, i want you to say what Multi-billion company has gone Bankrupt, since the last Century, even "PetroBras" Brazilian's biggest company that lose much of their Company's Value, and dropped a lot from Revenue, and Profit, dozens and dozens of Billions of US$, and still going on, with Hundred of thousands of employers.

The Brazilian's richest man that lost everything of their fortune (Multi-billion US$), And after lost everything and had a Multi-billion Debt that he would never be able to pay, he managed to make a Deal, and now he still have Multi-billion US$.

 

I Dont know a single multi-billion company that has gone Bankrupt, so you can remind me wich ones had gone for good ?.





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Eddie_Raja said:
SpokenTruth said:

Several people seem to think that winning or losing in the console race is a direct indicator of corporate health and the security of that company's future.

Below is a list of a few current (end of 2015) aspects of each that company that should shed more light on exactly how successful or in danger they are.  Unfortunately, this will compare the entire companies rather than just their game segments but for the sake of a company being solvent, it's relevant.

 

Company Nintendo* Sony* Microsoft
Cash and Short Term Investments $7.6 Billion $15.7 Billion $96.5 Billion
Total Assets $11.3 Billion $132.0 Billion $176.2 Billion
Total Liabilities $1.5 Billion $107.6 Billion $96.1 Billion
Total Debt $103,000 $18 Billion $7.5 Billion


* - All figures converted from Japanese Yen to USD.

So I want to highlight two big things here that I have known, and no one else ever seems to get:

1) Yes Nintendo has a ton of cash on hand, and no debts.  But Sony has WAY more cash, and if they got into trouble they have 12x the assets to sell off if they need help staying afloat.   Nintendo DOES NOT.  If they run out of money they are screwed!

 

2) There is no doubt that MS has far more money than Sony.  However they only have like 30% more assets.  They are fairly comparible companies in terms of size - MS cannot just bully Sony around and shove their way to victory like a lot of people seem to think here.



Unless you count their overseas proceedings which are nearly 131 percent of what they have in here...

Swordmasterman said:
SpokenTruth said:

No, because that's not the point.  This shows that if a company has multiple divisions and 1 part is doing horribly, the rest can help keep that division going.  Conversely, if most division are doing bad but 1 division is doing good and all you focus on is that good division, you are not seeing the full picture.

Nintendo is the only one of the 3 where focusing on games only can tell you the financial health and future of that company.  For the other 2, you have to consider all divisions else you may end up with an unrealistic expectation of the company as whole and their future.

Better stated, Sony and MS have other divisions that can save or doom their companies even if their gaming divisions are doing good/bad.  But if all you see is the games part, you'd never know if that company is doing well or barely treading water.



This really isn't how the things works, and i think that this thread was a Personal atack to Sony's finnance, because the main point of your thread is "Sony, is making profit with Playstation, but will go Bankrupt because of other divisions and there will be no future of purchasing a Playstation, and they will not make another console".

 

a Multi-billion company will never go Bankrupt because they have a lot of resources to dont go Bankrupt, they can make the company Smaller to prevent this, re-make the contract with their Debts to pay over time, and a lot of other things.

 

Who run any multi-billion company are hundreds of men and they have a lot of money also they are not Retard, i want you to say what Multi-billion company has gone Bankrupt, since the last Century, even "PetroBras" Brazilian's biggest company that lose much of their Company's Value, and dropped a lot from Revenue, and Profit, dozens and dozens of Billions of US$, and still going on, with Hundred of thousands of employers.

The Brazilian's richest man that lost everything of their fortune (Multi-billion US$), And after lost everything and had a Multi-billion Debt that he would never be able to pay, he managed to make a Deal, and now he still have Multi-billion US$.

 

I Dont know a single multi-billion company that has gone Bankrupt, so you can remind me wich ones had gone for good ?.



...you aren't serious, aren't you?





AsGryffynn said:
Eddie_Raja said:

This really isn't how the things works, and i think that this thread was a Personal atack to Sony's finnance, because the main point of your thread is "Sony, is making profit with Playstation, but will go Bankrupt because of other divisions and there will be no future of purchasing a Playstation, and they will not make another console".

 

a Multi-billion company will never go Bankrupt because they have a lot of resources to dont go Bankrupt, they can make the company Smaller to prevent this, re-make the contract with their Debts to pay over time, and a lot of other things.

 

Who run any multi-billion company are hundreds of men and they have a lot of money also they are not Retard, i want you to say what Multi-billion company has gone Bankrupt, since the last Century, even "PetroBras" Brazilian's biggest company that lose much of their Company's Value, and dropped a lot from Revenue, and Profit, dozens and dozens of Billions of US$, and still going on, with Hundred of thousands of employers.

The Brazilian's richest man that lost everything of their fortune (Multi-billion US$), And after lost everything and had a Multi-billion Debt that he would never be able to pay, he managed to make a Deal, and now he still have Multi-billion US$.

 

I Dont know a single multi-billion company that has gone Bankrupt, so you can remind me wich ones had gone for good ?.



...you aren't serious, aren't you?



Yes, i'm serious, the only company that i remember that went bankrupt was Lehman Brothers, but they were a exception, because those type of deals have a high floating price.

have a lot of stages of "Bankrupt", and Some company go Bankrupt, is nearly impossible for Multi-billion company, to go on a level of Bankrupt that will not be able to make a Come Back.

 

Even Marvel on the 90s went Bankrupt, and now we have the Avengers, Iron Man, X-Man, and a lot of other movies and now Marvel is more sucessful than DC.

 

The point of this thread was to say that Nintendo, even without selling consoles will not go bankrupt, that Sony, will go Bankrupt even if Playstation 4 breaks the 1 Billion of units sold mark, and Microsoft, will never go Bankrupt despite how many money they trhow on Xbox, and this is not how the things work.

 

if Something is Draining money from a company, sooner, or later it will be cuted off from the Company, but the company will stay alive and strong, we are talking about Companies  that have Dozens of multi-billion divisions, the author of this thread want to say that Despite how good Playstation is perfoming, Sony, will go Bankrupt, is like that Sony, will not Cut-off the other divisions, and sell some assets to pay the Debts, and still with Playstation, and that instead they will ask 400 Billions for the banks, will not pay, and will go bankrupt.

 

Never a Company that still a Market Leader, with more than 50% of Market share, with this division giving more than 11 Billions of US$ on Revenue per year, a Company would never go bankrupt being the Market Leader on 2 different markets, and with one of then having more than 50% of Market-share, and with predictions to sell  Much more than their competitor, Multiple times more.

 

Sony, is the Market Leader on Image Sensor, out there have a Sony's image sensor on each modern IPhone, or IPad, that are the Market's profit leader on market share, also Hundreds of Millions of Iphone, and Ipad, are sold throught the year, last year were sold 390 Millions of Iphone, and Ipad, if sony make 5US$ of Profit per Iphone, so already is a easy 1.9+ Billion of profit per year.

 

Sony, is the Market Leader on console gaming, is selling much more than the competitor together, and is selling 3 times more than their main competitor, and is growing more and more, and probably will sell on higher rates on the future, when you are the Market Leader you can hold Momentum until you make some mistake, Sony, managed to hold Playstation 1's momentum and made Playstation 2, the Best Selling console of all times, if they dont screw everything (and they had learned from the PS3), they will sell much more Playstation 5, than Playstation 4, and so on, Google have a Market share so big and that just grow because Google, have the Momentum, and this is a example.

 

Tell for me why a Company will not see that they are drowning on non-profitable divisions, while they are being the Market Leader on 2 Markets ?, this really makes no sense.

 

i Want you to explain your points in how Sony, will go Bankrupt despite being the Market leader ?, because this thread is about saying that Sony, will go bankrupt despite any Playstation 4 sold,  Nintendo, will not go bankrupt despite not selling home consoles, and Microsoft, will not go bankrupt because they have Money, and by some crazy reason they will stay having loss from Xbox, and will stay suporting the Brand, while they are clearly changing to PC Gaming.





Eddie_Raja said:
SpokenTruth said:
Company Nintendo* Sony* Microsoft
Cash and Short Term Investments $7.6 Billion $15.7 Billion $96.5 Billion
Total Assets $11.3 Billion $132.0 Billion $176.2 Billion
Total Liabilities $1.5 Billion $107.6 Billion $96.1 Billion
Total Debt $103,000 $18 Billion $7.5 Billion

So I want to highlight two big things here that I have known, and no one else ever seems to get:

1) Yes Nintendo has a ton of cash on hand, and no debts.  But Sony has WAY more cash, and if they got into trouble they have 12x the assets to sell off if they need help staying afloat.

Sony also has about 70x the liabilities and about 175x the debt. Sony's asset-liability ratio is the lowest from the three as well. Nintendo is a tiny company compared to Sony and Microsoft: about 5,000 employees versus 130,000 employees and 118,000 employees respectively so Sony might have more cash than Nintendo but it also has more bills and wages to pay.

Going off of these figures alone, I'd argue Nintendo is in the best shape and Sony in the worst shape. I'm not a business major though so my opinion is pretty worthless.

Eddie_Raja said:

If they run out of money they are screwed!

This applies to any company. If any company runs out of money, it is screwed.



Soundwave said:
Eddie_Raja said:

So I want to highlight two big things here that I have known, and no one else ever seems to get:

1) Yes Nintendo has a ton of cash on hand, and no debts.  But Sony has WAY more cash, and if they got into trouble they have 12x the assets to sell off if they need help staying afloat.   Nintendo DOES NOT.  If they run out of money they are screwed!

 

2) There is no doubt that MS has far more money than Sony.  However they only have like 30% more assets.  They are fairly comparible companies in terms of size - MS cannot just bully Sony around and shove their way to victory like a lot of people seem to think here.



 

"Assets" are kind hard to gauge in terms of real actual worth, in a scenario where you have to sell off assets to raise cash, you're unlikely to get market value for those said assets. 

Like you can say you have this TV factory that's worth $100 million, ok that qualifies as a $100 million dollar asset technically, but if you're selling because the TV busniess is shit, it's unlikely anyone is going to pay you list value for that factory, say you end up getting $20 million for it. 

I am well aware of that - but the same goes for Nintendo's "Assets".  Sony has 12x the assets and could survive A LOT longer if need be.  My point changes not at all with what you said.





Prediction for console Lifetime sales:

Wii:100-120 million, PS3:80-110 million, 360:70-100 million

[Prediction Made 11/5/2009]

3DS: 65m, PSV: 22m, Wii U: 18-22m, PS4: 80-120m, X1: 35-55m

I gauruntee the PS5 comes out after only 5-6 years after the launch of the PS4.

[Prediction Made 6/18/2014]

KLAMarine said:
Eddie_Raja said:
SpokenTruth said:
Company Nintendo* Sony* Microsoft
Cash and Short Term Investments $7.6 Billion $15.7 Billion $96.5 Billion
Total Assets $11.3 Billion $132.0 Billion $176.2 Billion
Total Liabilities $1.5 Billion $107.6 Billion $96.1 Billion
Total Debt $103,000 $18 Billion $7.5 Billion

So I want to highlight two big things here that I have known, and no one else ever seems to get:

1) Yes Nintendo has a ton of cash on hand, and no debts.  But Sony has WAY more cash, and if they got into trouble they have 12x the assets to sell off if they need help staying afloat.

Sony also has about 70x the liabilities and about 175x the debt. Sony's asset-liability ratio is the lowest from the three as well. Nintendo is a tiny company compared to Sony and Microsoft: about 5,000 employees versus 130,000 employees and 118,000 employees respectively so Sony might have more cash than Nintendo but it also has more bills and wages to pay.

Going off of these figures alone, I'd argue Nintendo is in the best shape and Sony in the worst shape. I'm not a business major though so my opinion is pretty worthless.

 

I am not arguing Nintendo is worse at profiting lol.  Of course they profit more as a company on average.  But right now they are doing pretty terrible compared to how they used to do.  The point you are willfully ignoring is that if Nintendo continues to fail they will fall apart FAR faster than Sony or MS ever would.  That is a fact.

Eddie_Raja said:

If they run out of money they are screwed!

This applies to any company. If any company runs out of money, it is screwed.

 

And that is my point buddy - I am glad you can read.  A lot of people around here act like MS and Nintendo are invincible, but the facts shown here clearly illustrate the opposite.  MS is the strongest, but they aren't overall that much bigger of a company.  Nintendo profits often, but they have FAR less armor than MS and Sony.

 





Prediction for console Lifetime sales:

Wii:100-120 million, PS3:80-110 million, 360:70-100 million

[Prediction Made 11/5/2009]

3DS: 65m, PSV: 22m, Wii U: 18-22m, PS4: 80-120m, X1: 35-55m

I gauruntee the PS5 comes out after only 5-6 years after the launch of the PS4.

[Prediction Made 6/18/2014]