I'd suggest a small modification. You can only upvote/downvote after leaving a comment on the user you want to upvote/downvote. That would force to create discussion instead of simply abusing the system.

Hey now. I'm not saying the market expanded. I'm saying I don't know. I'm saying you have no way of knowing if it has.

But if I were to speculate as to ways the market from both platforms could have expanded:

1) Growing markets in developing countries like South America, China and India for example. Any market where standards are living have improved to a point where 10 years ago people were more worried about surviving and now, more people can afford to save and buy these consoles if they so desire.

2) Kids that grew up with the Wii deciding to "graduate to" a console that has "matured with them" and getting their parents to get a PS4/X1 instead of a Wii U

3) the people who got a PS2/XB and never got a PS3/X1 for whatever reason (maybe they got a Wii instead) - there's about  -10 million difference between the two "generations", and we know nothing about how many of this generation actually picked up a PS2/XB so there could be tens of millions of people out there that might not have "bought in" to last generation that might be looking to "buy in" to this one.


There's just 3 possibilities you can't refute, much less dismiss without hard numbers, and that's literally off the top of my head.

It is not logical to assume that because we have no additional information, we should assume the status quo. In fact that is a logical fallacy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_tradition. Perhaps you should stop using the word "logic" to defend your stance. Your argument is objectively not logical by definition.

You are thinking it too much but I sort of agree, there should be a system where you can't downvote unless you add a comment expressing why you disagree. Reddit kind of tried to fix this shit by hiding the votes for an hour or so. At the end you just have to deal with it, people is childish by nature and if you start giving it importance they are succeeding

Which is why for the most part I have stopped posting. The nature of this business is changing on a daily basis.  The amount of data material used is getting smaller and more dispirse, all the while we are asking ourselves to make more and more educated guesses.  Your threads ask people to provide data, but you provide none to prove that the current generation of systems are frontloaded.

Then you make a thread about being downvoted due to trolls, what if its by people who disagree with you in conjunction with not liking you?  The fact that you created this means, to me, that you need to look inside as to why these things affect you so much as opposed to having overall rule changes to suit whats you believe is best for the overall community.

I was one of those who thumbed you up.

The system is archaic at this point anyway since corps like Google and network sites like Disqus have long since removed their downvote systems with their respective sites/apps. They wouldn't remove them for no reason but it's become clear over the years that a downvote system at this point isn't really all that valid nor does a downvote contribute to anything, hell even an upvote spam can even lead to inner circle jerking. I do agree though with the op because these days the system has become more or less a tool used by others personally against those they disagree with regardless of validity. You can still disagree with someone without having to spam the dislike button and getting friends to join in, you can disagree with someone both written and verbally and we've done this for a good long time.

Why does this matter though?

I'm pretty sure if a post gets downvoted enough, it gets hidden by default. So it does matter.

Anyway, I think it is a problem. Sometimes it's used to downvote truly bad posts, but most of the time people downvote just to voice their disagreement (even if the post happens to be good and well argumented). I don't think that's how downvoting is supposed to work, and if it is, the comments shouldn't be hidden just because people disagree with them.

Put it another way - you're assuming that the 70 million people that supposedly bought an PS2 and not a PS3  (and you have no way of knowing  how many of the 86 million PS3s sold were sold to PS2 owners) decided to buy a Xbox 360 instead or something.  That's an enormous assumption. If you're not making this assumption, then you have to demonstrate that these 70 million people can't explain the increase in PS4 sales. Have you considered that perhaps the combined sales of PS3 and X360 do not actually represent all of those who are interested in gaming on a playstation or an xbox? AKA - the market may not be expanding. The PS4 and X1 just may be more appealing to the market than the PS3 and X360 are. Of course. you have no way of knowing that.

Also in the history of video games: PS1 sales, (lifetime and year on year), PS2 sales, (lifetime and year on year). We have far more sales info to draw on than just PS3 and X360 sales. I also don't see why its shocking that a console would outsell its predecessor after being on the market for seven years. You're acting as if that's some unheard of feat. The PS5 will likely be out in 4 years time, which will more or less mark the end of the PS4. If you think a console can't outsell its predecessor or come very close to outselling it before its sucessor comes out, then maybe you should go back and look at the history a little bit more.


But yes, you're literally using an appeal to tradition fallacy. We can call it an "appeal to common practice" fallacy if you like but it means the same thing. Assuming something will continue on a certain path because you have no data that proves it has not is a logical fallacy. There's also a bit of "argument from ignorance here" - "You can't prove me wrong so I'm probably right". Either way, your mental process in coming to your conclusion isn't based on nearly as much logic as you expect.

the fact that you admit to down voted yourself as well makes me question how seriously I can take this thread... ...

The system can improve, however I don't see it as a huge problem. I understand why you do tho.