ill agree to that :( I remember with PS3 no one would thought a console would do worse than its first year, but here we are.

no one is pretending that it didnt beat PS360, but to pretend that a MAJOR factor in that victory wasnt the motion control is revisionist, especially how poorly the follow up console Wii u is doing. Wii went from Ninty's best selling home console to the it worse in one gen transition? Explain that one. 

I also find it funny that some people tout Wii beating the HD twins, but now when Wii U is getting a stomping all of a sudden Ninty doesnt compete with those two? ANd NX wont compete with PS4 and ONE?

I never said motion controls were not a major factor; of course they were, but that doesn't disqualify its victory. I've seen plenty of people right here on VGChartz use all kinds of inane logic to try to claim that the Wii lost last gen; from implying that casual purchases don't count to saying that attach rates or time on the market decide a generation's winner rather than actual consoles sold.

As for the collapse from Wii to Wii U, that's easily explained; Nintendo turned into fucking morons from 2011 onwards and actively refused to adapt to the changing marketplace. 

And while this may sound harsh, only diehard Nintendo loyalists claim they're not competing with PS/Xbox. They clearly are, and they're getting their arses kicked because they themselves refuse to acknowledge this.

Who was saying that the victory doesnt count? i think what people were saying is not to let the hype of WIi numbers get to them because prior to that the sales in there home consoles were declining and once that was over it would go back to normal. I guess everyone was wrong cause it is worse than normal. I dont know what crazy fools were saying they lost, thats madness. But goalposts.

I would argue they didnt really adapt too much with Wii, unfortunate that the Wii U isnt popular enough to not make that an issue.

its aint harsh, its true. very true.

I can't recall which specific users made these claims, but there it wasn't just one or two, it's a debate I've had dozens of times over the last 5 years.

Wii's success was due to a shrewd reading of the market; they saw an untapped audience and successfully captured it. Then other companies moved in, the Blue Ocean became another Red Ocean, and as usual when this happens, Nintendo was too slow to respond.

Had they applied the same degree of insight to the Wii U, they would have seen that the market in 2012 was drastically different to 2006, and that what they were attempting would not work.

It'll be some time before they don't. There's a huge difference between creating a game series and creating a franchise. Franchises that expand into merchandise, games, and so much more like Mario, Pokemon and Zelda take a while to deteriorate. Just ask Mickey Mouse. An ordinary game series that has selling potential may last only a few games like Uncharted. Eventually, they end.

Nintendo has built stable franchises that have stood the test of time to great fanfare and reviews...(Except Animal Crossing Amiibo Festival and Federation Force...and) you get the point. If Nintendo goes down, it'll be a sad day in gaming history.

oh i believe you, but i dont think it was that many of them and they havent been spouting that in a while.

Yeah, but what were they gonna do? Its not like they couldve pulled another motion control thing and the actual tech of the Wii itself insured it was gonna get left to the wayside in alot of things. Im not trying to be hard, i really would like to know, cause i knew that it was always gonna turn out like this as soon as i picked up the wiimote and said "yup this is cool, but it wont last"

fair enough, but what would have been the alternative, stick with motion? cause that wouldnt have worked, straight red ocean against Sony/MS that didnt work even when Sony didnt really know what they were doing (PS1)

Honestly, I'm just a forum-going gamer, I can't say what would have been the best option for them, I just don't believe Wii U was the optimal course for them to have taken this generation. They fucked it up on so many levels (name, marketing, software, price, horsepower) it's crazy.

respectable. I'm trying to think of a scenario where they would have been better. With PS3 it was simple "599 is way too damn much reduce the price" they did and turned it around. This Wii U is far more complex

Drop the gamepad and lower the price.  When gamers caught wind that replacement gamepads cost $150 in early 2013, it ruffled a lot of feathers because it showed that it was an expensive gimmick that saw little to zero use to a lot of people.  A lot of people like the Wii U as a companion console but they don't want to pay a primary console price for it -- especially when all it gets is less than half of Nintendo's 1st party games, frequent and extensive software droughts and a couple of exclusive indies along with next to zero 3rd party support.

I just hope that whatever gimmick Ninetndo has lined up for the NX, that it's either cheap to impliment and/or easily justifiable because if it's another Wii U situation where the gimmick is poorly utilized and takes up more than a third of the console's total cost, it's going to fail.  I personally think the gimmick is a unified library, which I think would be great.