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Forums - Nintendo - What if Nintendo Doesn't Comeback?

 

Can Nintendo Dominate

It will Beat the Xbox One 161 32.66%
 
It will Beat X1 and PS4 59 11.97%
 
It will beat PS4 but not ... 53 10.75%
 
See Results 220 44.62%
 
Total:493
bdbdbd on 12 January 2016
Kai_Mao said:
Chazore said:
CosmicSex said:
A lot of you guys have responded saying that the NX doesn't have to dominate to be successful and you are right. But it certainly can not sell as bad as the Wii U. THIS is what I am defining as a fail. If you think that the NX could take the Xbox One or PS4 thats fine. but if they ship another Wii U in terms of sales, what then?

The thread does not say that it has to do PS4 numbers. It just can't do Wii U numbers.

Then what would you call above Wii U numbers but nowhere near X1/PS4 numbers?, again that feels like a big rock and a hard place scenario and still sounds like it's bad either way. I mean just say they did better or slightly better than WIi U numbers, how long will it take before we have the same discussions where Nintendo might go 3rd party or might be doomed because either way we're forcing this on Nintendo for simply not toppling the other two and now we have their own current system thrown into the mix. I strongly feel that from all this there is simply no winning for Nintendo at all because even if they had slightly better numbers than Wii U we'll still find some area to complain about how bad it is that they are doing even despite them not doing Wii U numbers, damned if they are and damned if they don't. We talked about their catch 22 situation a year and a half ago and I feel we'll be right back to talking about that with the NX in terms of sales and support.

This.

It's like as if NX will be Nintendo's last chance at home console making. Sure they're not profiting like in the Wii/DS days, but they haven't lost as much as we make them out to be. What if NX sells only 20 million but gains a profit? Or a $200 million loss per year? As mentioned, we could all be senior citizens by the time Nintendo is in any position to file bankruptcy if they lose about $250 million per year starting at 2012. As of now, we don't know how much they'll spend on NX in terms of hardware.

They don't necessarily have to win 1st, but to earn profit. I mean, they did it throughout almost all of their 30+ years in the game industry with exception of 2-4 years, which says a lot considering they've been in third place for home consoles for 3 of the last 4 generations. Now with all their newest ventures outside of traditional gaming, who knows where this will go.

 

Look guys, you can live in a fantasy land all you want, but in the real world there are people called shareholders, who own the company and who's money Nintendo is spending. If Nintendo is unable to pay dividents and shareholders are unhappy, it's game over for Kimishima and someone else replaces him (and does what it needs to in order to retain high profitability). One of the biggest reasons for NX was not only the platform to save costs, but also the continuation of profits. I think Yamauchi accepted the ups and downs of new hardware release as being a part of the business, but the new shareholders may want a continuation, and a platform for multiple devices for the foreseeable future provides just that.





Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

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bdbdbd on 12 January 2016
naruball said:
wombat123 said:

Yup.  Marketing was just one of the things that went wrong with the Wii U.  This entire gen (3DS/Wii U) was a case of Nintendo falling because of their hubris -- especially with the Wii U.  They just expected people to buy a weak console with an expensive gimmick along with no advertising or games based solely on the 'Wii' brand.  They were so confident in the 'Wii' name selling it that it almost looked like they just sent the console out there to die.  If anything can be salvaged from this gen, Nintendo probably learned a large lesson in humility and hopefully won't make the same mistakes with the NX.

Interestingly enough, that's not the reaction we got here on vgc. The wiiu won most polls that asked users which console they are planning on buying or which console will win the console race. They said that a 3d Mario game will do the trick. If not, definitely a 2d Mario. You just wait for Mario Kart, etc. Then people started blaming marketing and will do again, if NX fails.

I couldn't disagree more. The wiiu was destined to fail and anyone who was not a fan could see it. Mario Kart wii didn't seel 30m+ because of its insane popularity. It was a big franchise but a whole lot of its sales came from the installbase. Ninty IPs sell consoles, just not as many as Ninty or its fans would like to. I see no way Ninty can win a home console generation unless the come up with something innovative/a gimmick. As much as people try to deny it, Ninty/Sony/MS IPs are not enough for a console to become successful. Plus since the xb360 gneration, people are less likely to lose their achievements/trophies and move to a new system. I don't see how Ninty can make a comeback no matter what. Games like Splatoon are not enough and wiiu hardware sales clearly show that.

 

There were two problems with Wii U, still is, and everyone really can see it: the obvious lack of interesting games and the price of the hardware. Things might have been different if there had been the Premium with the gamepad for 349, and Basic without the gamepad for 199. Both coming with a game.

Mario Kart Wii did benefit from the large installbase, but it likely sold millions of consoles. The problem is, that just by looking all the games as single games, we end up in conclusion that all the games sold what they did because of the installbase. The first party IP's are well enough, as long as they're the right type and do not feel rushed. There's no "Wii U Sports" on Wii U, no Metroid, 3D Mario or Zelda for the core Nintendo fan. There's recycled 2D Mario and Wii Fit U, with a 3D Mario spinoff - and that's pretty much all there was before Mario Kart 8 was released.



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

naruball on 12 January 2016
bdbdbd said:

 

There were two problems with Wii U, still is, and everyone really can see it: the obvious lack of interesting games and the price of the hardware. Things might have been different if there had been the Premium with the gamepad for 349, and Basic without the gamepad for 199. Both coming with a game.

Mario Kart Wii did benefit from the large installbase, but it likely sold millions of consoles. The problem is, that just by looking all the games as single games, we end up in conclusion that all the games sold what they did because of the installbase. The first party IP's are well enough, as long as they're the right type and do not feel rushed. There's no "Wii U Sports" on Wii U, no Metroid, 3D Mario or Zelda for the core Nintendo fan. There's recycled 2D Mario and Wii Fit U, with a 3D Mario spinoff - and that's pretty much all there was before Mario Kart 8 was released.

You can't really have it both ways. I kept reading how Ninty (wiiu) has the best exclusives. Even Ninty used Metacritic to prove just how good their exclusives were. The reviewers didn't think it was a simple 3d Mario spinoff, but a great game, hence the scores. Same with the 2d mario. And then you have not only a Mario Kart that is great, but also Smash, and a so-called "genre defining game", i.e. Splatoon.

If Sony managed to sell ps3 for 599 and MS after the fiasco with the xb1 reveal, their console for 499 with a Kinect that "no one" asked for, I don't see how the price was really an issue with wiiu. Wiiu has just as many exclusives as Sony and MS (if not more). The masses obviously don't care enough for NInty IPs.





Nintendonews1 on 12 January 2016

there's a rumor that a Latin website article States Japanese companies Sony and Nintendo are in merger talks also the site reports that sony is offering Nintendo $33 a share and that the company's would not change any board members



CosmicSex on 12 January 2016
Nintendonews1 said:

there's a rumor that a Latin website article States Japanese companies Sony and Nintendo are in merger talks also the site reports that sony is offering Nintendo $33 a share and that the company's would not change any board members

 

What is your source?



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haxxiy on 12 January 2016
Kai_Mao said:
Well..if we're talking about after NX, it's still possible for Nintendo to continue making consoles. Remember, it's been reported that they can survived over $250 million losses per year and it would be until we're seniors or something before we could event fathom seeng them bankrupt. As I said in my topic discussion on Nintendo and going third party, Sega was bleeding money before they dropped out with the Dreamcast. Nintendo appears to be in no position to do that since they still have billions to spare and IPs that are everything to them. If they go third party, though, I don't see them doing much else outside of Mario, Smash, Zelda, DK, and Pokemon since they're they only few franchises that can sell. You would probably get one FE or Metroid every seven or so years because they historically don't sell as well compared to the franchises I've mentioned


I doubt it take much more than a decade or so of yearly losses for every investor to depart, and market shares plummet enough for someone to scoop the company up and dismantle it for its assets. Enterprises fail before they are completely devoid of resources on some cases...



 

 

 

 

 

bdbdbd on 12 January 2016
naruball said:

You can't really have it both ways. I kept reading how Ninty (wiiu) has the best exclusives. Even Ninty used Metacritic to prove just how good their exclusives were. The reviewers didn't think it was a simple 3d Mario spinoff, but a great game, hence the scores. Same with the 2d mario. And then you have not only a Mario Kart that is great, but also Smash, and a so-called "genre defining game", i.e. Splatoon.

If Sony managed to sell ps3 for 599 and MS after the fiasco with the xb1 reveal, their console for 499 with a Kinect that "no one" asked for, I don't see how the price was really an issue with wiiu. Wiiu has just as many exclusives as Sony and MS (if not more). The masses obviously don't care enough for NInty IPs.

It has the best exclusives. If they're not that good, the competition naturally has it worse. Who cares about reviews anyways these days, outside of PR. Sony did not manage to sell PS3 for 599. The situation for PS3 was pretty much the same Wii U is facing at the moment: the games started coming years after the release, although PS3 had lots of 3rd party games, while Wii U isn't.

It is obvious MS targets more the customer that is willing to pay what they ask for, as Wii U clearly isn't.

I did read you wrong at first, you're right, people do not care enough about Nintendo IP's, they care about the substance in the said games, and that's what they've been lacking. If you think Super Mario Galaxy is the ultimate Mario experience, SM3DW isn't going to appeal you. If you like 2D Mario, you're not interested in SM3DW. If you have (like I do) NSMB, NSMBW, NSMB2, then NSMBU feels a little stale. It's clear there's no new content, even the music is the same. Was this a HD remake of any NSMB.

It wasn't until 2014 or 2015 Wii U started to look appealing. It would still need a decent pricecut.



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

Kai_Mao on 12 January 2016
naruball said:
bdbdbd said:

 

There were two problems with Wii U, still is, and everyone really can see it: the obvious lack of interesting games and the price of the hardware. Things might have been different if there had been the Premium with the gamepad for 349, and Basic without the gamepad for 199. Both coming with a game.

Mario Kart Wii did benefit from the large installbase, but it likely sold millions of consoles. The problem is, that just by looking all the games as single games, we end up in conclusion that all the games sold what they did because of the installbase. The first party IP's are well enough, as long as they're the right type and do not feel rushed. There's no "Wii U Sports" on Wii U, no Metroid, 3D Mario or Zelda for the core Nintendo fan. There's recycled 2D Mario and Wii Fit U, with a 3D Mario spinoff - and that's pretty much all there was before Mario Kart 8 was released.

You can't really have it both ways. I kept reading how Ninty (wiiu) has the best exclusives. Even Ninty used Metacritic to prove just how good their exclusives were. The reviewers didn't think it was a simple 3d Mario spinoff, but a great game, hence the scores. Same with the 2d mario. And then you have not only a Mario Kart that is great, but also Smash, and a so-called "genre defining game", i.e. Splatoon.

If Sony managed to sell ps3 for 599 and MS after the fiasco with the xb1 reveal, their console for 499 with a Kinect that "no one" asked for, I don't see how the price was really an issue with wiiu. Wiiu has just as many exclusives as Sony and MS (if not more). The masses obviously don't care enough for NInty IPs.

I think that's what will make Nintendo's transition to mobile interesting. As you say that last sentence, Nintendo is doing the initiative to raise awareness of their IPs to create more attention. This started with amiibo, now mobile, along with the theme parks, the potential tv shows and films, with the merchandise they already are selling (can't wait for that new Link figma), will start something new for Nintendo as they revamp their ecosystem. Will the masses respond to their new mobile games and other ventures?





naruball on 12 January 2016
bdbdbd said:

It has the best exclusives. If they're not that good, the competition naturally has it worse. Who cares about reviews anyways these days, outside of PR. Sony did not manage to sell PS3 for 599. The situation for PS3 was pretty much the same Wii U is facing at the moment: the games started coming years after the release, although PS3 had lots of 3rd party games, while Wii U isn't.

 

I don't think that's the case. I was under the impression that the ps3 struggled until the slim model but then read that it did well from the getgo, outselling xb360 consistently every year until Kinect took off. Sony has such a strong brand in home consoles, it can convince the consumers to buy its consoles even at a high price and with limited first party games. Ninty cannot. Hence the wii being the only exception since the n64 says. But sure. Let's wait until the next ninty console is released and see how it does.

As for Ninty ips being stale, I agree with you (been playing pokemon Y the last couple of weeks) and it's stale as hell. Same music, same story (oooh, it's time fire causing trouble), many same moves, yet the games still sell amazingly well and move hardware.

If you (as in anyone) spend most of your time on Ninty forums or around Ninty fans expressing their excitement over Zelda, you get the impression that the wrold can't wait for the new Zelda game. The reality may be a bit different, i.e. the hardcore fans being very local and the masses being indifferent to the game.





naruball on 12 January 2016
Kai_Mao said:

 

I think that's what will make Nintendo's transition to mobile interesting. As you say that last sentence, Nintendo is doing the initiative to raise awareness of their IPs to create more attention. This started with amiibo, now mobile, along with the theme parks, the potential tv shows and films, with the merchandise they already are selling (can't wait for that new Link figma), will start something new for Nintendo as they revamp their ecosystem. Will the masses respond to their new mobile games and other ventures?

I think it's a great move from Ninty. I applaud their strategy. I just think they can't half ass it. They can't just put an inferior version and think that the masses will eat it up. It's more likely that it will hurt the brand. So no more miifestival or whatever it's called and more Pokemon Go, hopefully well done!