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Forums - Politics Discussion - Virginia School District closes over Islam worksheet

 

Would you get angry if your child received this?

Yes! It is making my child submit to Islam! 77 42.78%
 
No, it is simply teaching... 62 34.44%
 
Who cares? Honestly. No need to be butthurt. 41 22.78%
 
Total:180
NobleTeam360 on 18 December 2015

I'll assume these are public school, in which case religion of any sort isn't supposed to be taught, no?



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Shiken on 18 December 2015
JWeinCom said:
hershel_layton said:

 

There's a difference though. One is stating the foundation of an entire religion, the other is a Bible verse saying if you're Christian, then to DisneyLand you go.

 

Personally, I don't care if you do so! Did the teachers ever say "Hey, we're gonna make you submit to all religions!" ? I recall people back then being able to visit churches, mosques, temples, and much more without people complaining. I don't see why 2015 people suddenly need to feel offended by everything that doesn't make them happy-dappy.

It's erroneous. It's childish. I assure you that if I had a child with an assignment such as this, I would let them do the assignment. Why? Because it helps the student understand the faiths of others. 

 

Name any religion- Jewdism, Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Sikhism, as long as they aren't making it where they force them to believe in the religion(which never happened here), then let the child learn some basic information about other people!


How is this an attack on one's religion if you're simply writing down words? I'd love to know. I'm not a Christian. However, I would happily write down Bible verses talking about the foundation of Christianity. It's the tolerant thing to do. I am not fond on Christianity. BUT, I am not a bigot, and realize that it is important to understand the faith of 2.1 billion people on Earth. If I didn't think it was important, i'd probably sound as dumb as the parents crying over the assignment

 

Based on your responses so far I think you're being contrarian for the sake of being contrary.  But I'll humor you and see if I'm wrong.

"There's a difference though. One is stating the foundation of an entire religion, the other is a Bible verse saying if you're Christian, then to DisneyLand you go."

I don't see how it's different.  What does it matter if it's the foundation or not?  Children should never be forced to say anything that goes against their beliefs, verbally or in writing.  

And, if you're writing that Muhammed is the prophet Allah, then all the rest of the Quran kind of goes along with it.  It's no different from John 3:16 or whatever, because by extension you are saying implicitly the Quran is true, and everything Muhammed said is true.  So all the silly stuff like Muhammed cut the moon in two goes with that.

 

"Personally, I don't care if you do so! Did the teachers ever say "Hey, we're gonna make you submit to all religions!" ? I recall people back then being able to visit churches, mosques, temples, and much more without people complaining. I don't see why 2015 people suddenly need to feel offended by everything that doesn't make them happy-dappy."

This is a total non-sequitor.   People could go wherever they want and not be offended.  But, when a publicly funded institution instructs children to say "There is no god but Allah." That's a violation of the constitution.  This is not a new thing.

 

"It's erroneous. It's childish. I assure you that if I had a child with an assignment such as this, I would let them do the assignment. Why? Because it helps the student understand the faiths of others. "

You are free to have your child write whatever nonsense he wants.  My kids wouldn't do the assignment.  Unless they somehow wound up Muslim.  And this is not simply helping understand the religions of others.
There is a big difference between saying "Muslims believe that Allah is the one true god." And saying "There is no god but Allah."  If the kids were writing the first statement, there would be no issue.
If you don't get this, try this thought experiment.  Would you feel comfortable making a post on social media saying, "Jared Fogle believes it is ok to have sex with children?"  I'm guessing you would.  I mean, it'd be weird to say unprompted, but you may do it if there was a reason.

On the other hand, would you write on social media "It is ok to have sex with children."  I'm guessing you wouldn't post that one.
To sum it up "There is no god from Allah" =/= "Muslims believe that there is no god but Allah."
"Name any religion- Jewdism, Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Sikhism, as long as they aren't making it where they force them to believe in the religion(which never happened here), then let the child learn some basic information about other people!"
And why does this education have to involve writing a statement that may violate many individuals personal beliefs, and in some cases their religious beliefs?  Nobody is saying it is wrong to teach about religion, so please stop using this strawman argument.  They are arguing against the specific way it is being taught.
"How is this an attack on one's religion if you're simply writing down words? I'd love to know. I'm not a Christian. However, I would happily write down Bible verses talking about the foundation of Christianity. It's the tolerant thing to do. I am not fond on Christianity. BUT, I am not a bigot, and realize that it is important to understand the faith of 2.1 billion people on Earth. If I didn't think it was important, i'd probably sound as dumb as the parents crying over the assignment"
Saying "I'm not a bigot" is a rather slimy way to imply that those who have a problem with the assignment are.
Do you know what the word tolerant means?  Because it doesn't seem like you do.
Tolerant means that if someone says that Allah is the one true god, you let them.  If your teacher is telling you about Islam, you listen respectfully.  It does not mean you have to actually participate or write something you don't agree with.  You would happily write bible verses?  Well grab a pen and a bible and knock yourself out.

As an atheist I am incredibly uncomfortable saying anything implying a belief in a deity.  It is something I totally don't believe, and I wouldn't want to say it, write it, sing it, trace it, or whatever.  And if something makes students or their parents uncomfortable, why is it necessary?
To sum it up, you don't have to respond to every point.  Just respond to this one.

You think teaching religion is important?  Fine, agreed.  Is it necessary to write "There is no god but Allah?" to learn about the religion?  Can students get a full understanding of Islam without writing that down?  If we can learn about Islam without this, why should we force students to do something which they may have intellectual, moral, or religious objections to?

 


As a Christian, you took my thoughts and put them into much better words.  Thank you my atheist friend, you hit tbe nail on the head!



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hershel_layton on 18 December 2015
Gourmet said:
It's hilarious how you only made this thread because this shouldn't offend anyone and you said I was insulting you, out of freaking nowhere. Cognitive dissonance much?

 

No, I was not saying it in a way where I am hurt. However, I found it strange how you preferred to use childish insults such as "smartass" and whatnot to get some of your points across. Nothing you said was taken personally from me.



 

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12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

hershel_layton on 18 December 2015

All of you made me change my thoughts on the manner:

They never should have had the religious text as a homework assignment. However, replacing it with a non-religious arabic text is perfectly fine. While this does offend people's beliefs and viewpoints, some people took this overboard.

Thanks to the people who corrected my errors, and apologies for wasting any of your time.

(Unless someone wants this to keep going, does anyone know how to delete forums?)



 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

hershel_layton on 18 December 2015
Shiken said:
JWeinCom said:

 

Based on your responses so far I think you're being contrarian for the sake of being contrary.  But I'll humor you and see if I'm wrong.

"There's a difference though. One is stating the foundation of an entire religion, the other is a Bible verse saying if you're Christian, then to DisneyLand you go."

I don't see how it's different.  What does it matter if it's the foundation or not?  Children should never be forced to say anything that goes against their beliefs, verbally or in writing.  

And, if you're writing that Muhammed is the prophet Allah, then all the rest of the Quran kind of goes along with it.  It's no different from John 3:16 or whatever, because by extension you are saying implicitly the Quran is true, and everything Muhammed said is true.  So all the silly stuff like Muhammed cut the moon in two goes with that.

 

"Personally, I don't care if you do so! Did the teachers ever say "Hey, we're gonna make you submit to all religions!" ? I recall people back then being able to visit churches, mosques, temples, and much more without people complaining. I don't see why 2015 people suddenly need to feel offended by everything that doesn't make them happy-dappy."

This is a total non-sequitor.   People could go wherever they want and not be offended.  But, when a publicly funded institution instructs children to say "There is no god but Allah." That's a violation of the constitution.  This is not a new thing.

 

"It's erroneous. It's childish. I assure you that if I had a child with an assignment such as this, I would let them do the assignment. Why? Because it helps the student understand the faiths of others. "

You are free to have your child write whatever nonsense he wants.  My kids wouldn't do the assignment.  Unless they somehow wound up Muslim.  And this is not simply helping understand the religions of others.
There is a big difference between saying "Muslims believe that Allah is the one true god." And saying "There is no god but Allah."  If the kids were writing the first statement, there would be no issue.
If you don't get this, try this thought experiment.  Would you feel comfortable making a post on social media saying, "Jared Fogle believes it is ok to have sex with children?"  I'm guessing you would.  I mean, it'd be weird to say unprompted, but you may do it if there was a reason.

On the other hand, would you write on social media "It is ok to have sex with children."  I'm guessing you wouldn't post that one.
To sum it up "There is no god from Allah" =/= "Muslims believe that there is no god but Allah."
"Name any religion- Jewdism, Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Sikhism, as long as they aren't making it where they force them to believe in the religion(which never happened here), then let the child learn some basic information about other people!"
And why does this education have to involve writing a statement that may violate many individuals personal beliefs, and in some cases their religious beliefs?  Nobody is saying it is wrong to teach about religion, so please stop using this strawman argument.  They are arguing against the specific way it is being taught.
"How is this an attack on one's religion if you're simply writing down words? I'd love to know. I'm not a Christian. However, I would happily write down Bible verses talking about the foundation of Christianity. It's the tolerant thing to do. I am not fond on Christianity. BUT, I am not a bigot, and realize that it is important to understand the faith of 2.1 billion people on Earth. If I didn't think it was important, i'd probably sound as dumb as the parents crying over the assignment"
Saying "I'm not a bigot" is a rather slimy way to imply that those who have a problem with the assignment are.
Do you know what the word tolerant means?  Because it doesn't seem like you do.
Tolerant means that if someone says that Allah is the one true god, you let them.  If your teacher is telling you about Islam, you listen respectfully.  It does not mean you have to actually participate or write something you don't agree with.  You would happily write bible verses?  Well grab a pen and a bible and knock yourself out.

As an atheist I am incredibly uncomfortable saying anything implying a belief in a deity.  It is something I totally don't believe, and I wouldn't want to say it, write it, sing it, trace it, or whatever.  And if something makes students or their parents uncomfortable, why is it necessary?
To sum it up, you don't have to respond to every point.  Just respond to this one.

You think teaching religion is important?  Fine, agreed.  Is it necessary to write "There is no god but Allah?" to learn about the religion?  Can students get a full understanding of Islam without writing that down?  If we can learn about Islam without this, why should we force students to do something which they may have intellectual, moral, or religious objections to?

 


As a Christian, you took my thoughts and put them into much better words.  Thank you my atheist friend, you hit tbe nail on the head!

 

That was actually a very intellectual and well though out response. I'm actually quite shocked...I've never sounded this stupid in quite some time. I do feel embarassed though, and disappointed in the effort I put into this topic.

 

(Applause)



 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

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jigokutamago on 18 December 2015
JWeinCom said:
hershel_layton said:

 

There's a difference though. One is stating the foundation of an entire religion, the other is a Bible verse saying if you're Christian, then to DisneyLand you go.

 

Personally, I don't care if you do so! Did the teachers ever say "Hey, we're gonna make you submit to all religions!" ? I recall people back then being able to visit churches, mosques, temples, and much more without people complaining. I don't see why 2015 people suddenly need to feel offended by everything that doesn't make them happy-dappy.

It's erroneous. It's childish. I assure you that if I had a child with an assignment such as this, I would let them do the assignment. Why? Because it helps the student understand the faiths of others. 

 

Name any religion- Jewdism, Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Sikhism, as long as they aren't making it where they force them to believe in the religion(which never happened here), then let the child learn some basic information about other people!


How is this an attack on one's religion if you're simply writing down words? I'd love to know. I'm not a Christian. However, I would happily write down Bible verses talking about the foundation of Christianity. It's the tolerant thing to do. I am not fond on Christianity. BUT, I am not a bigot, and realize that it is important to understand the faith of 2.1 billion people on Earth. If I didn't think it was important, i'd probably sound as dumb as the parents crying over the assignment

 

Based on your responses so far I think you're being contrarian for the sake of being contrary.  But I'll humor you and see if I'm wrong.

"There's a difference though. One is stating the foundation of an entire religion, the other is a Bible verse saying if you're Christian, then to DisneyLand you go."

I don't see how it's different.  What does it matter if it's the foundation or not?  Children should never be forced to say anything that goes against their beliefs, verbally or in writing.  

And, if you're writing that Muhammed is the prophet Allah, then all the rest of the Quran kind of goes along with it.  It's no different from John 3:16 or whatever, because by extension you are saying implicitly the Quran is true, and everything Muhammed said is true.  So all the silly stuff like Muhammed cut the moon in two goes with that.

 

"Personally, I don't care if you do so! Did the teachers ever say "Hey, we're gonna make you submit to all religions!" ? I recall people back then being able to visit churches, mosques, temples, and much more without people complaining. I don't see why 2015 people suddenly need to feel offended by everything that doesn't make them happy-dappy."

This is a total non-sequitor.   People could go wherever they want and not be offended.  But, when a publicly funded institution instructs children to say "There is no god but Allah." That's a violation of the constitution.  This is not a new thing.

 

"It's erroneous. It's childish. I assure you that if I had a child with an assignment such as this, I would let them do the assignment. Why? Because it helps the student understand the faiths of others. "

You are free to have your child write whatever nonsense he wants.  My kids wouldn't do the assignment.  Unless they somehow wound up Muslim.  And this is not simply helping understand the religions of others.
There is a big difference between saying "Muslims believe that Allah is the one true god." And saying "There is no god but Allah."  If the kids were writing the first statement, there would be no issue.
If you don't get this, try this thought experiment.  Would you feel comfortable making a post on social media saying, "Jared Fogle believes it is ok to have sex with children?"  I'm guessing you would.  I mean, it'd be weird to say unprompted, but you may do it if there was a reason.

On the other hand, would you write on social media "It is ok to have sex with children."  I'm guessing you wouldn't post that one.
To sum it up "There is no god from Allah" =/= "Muslims believe that there is no god but Allah."
"Name any religion- Jewdism, Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Sikhism, as long as they aren't making it where they force them to believe in the religion(which never happened here), then let the child learn some basic information about other people!"
And why does this education have to involve writing a statement that may violate many individuals personal beliefs, and in some cases their religious beliefs?  Nobody is saying it is wrong to teach about religion, so please stop using this strawman argument.  They are arguing against the specific way it is being taught.
"How is this an attack on one's religion if you're simply writing down words? I'd love to know. I'm not a Christian. However, I would happily write down Bible verses talking about the foundation of Christianity. It's the tolerant thing to do. I am not fond on Christianity. BUT, I am not a bigot, and realize that it is important to understand the faith of 2.1 billion people on Earth. If I didn't think it was important, i'd probably sound as dumb as the parents crying over the assignment"
Saying "I'm not a bigot" is a rather slimy way to imply that those who have a problem with the assignment are.
Do you know what the word tolerant means?  Because it doesn't seem like you do.
Tolerant means that if someone says that Allah is the one true god, you let them.  If your teacher is telling you about Islam, you listen respectfully.  It does not mean you have to actually participate or write something you don't agree with.  You would happily write bible verses?  Well grab a pen and a bible and knock yourself out.

As an atheist I am incredibly uncomfortable saying anything implying a belief in a deity.  It is something I totally don't believe, and I wouldn't want to say it, write it, sing it, trace it, or whatever.  And if something makes students or their parents uncomfortable, why is it necessary?
To sum it up, you don't have to respond to every point.  Just respond to this one.

You think teaching religion is important?  Fine, agreed.  Is it necessary to write "There is no god but Allah?" to learn about the religion?  Can students get a full understanding of Islam without writing that down?  If we can learn about Islam without this, why should we force students to do something which they may have intellectual, moral, or religious objections to?

I find some ironic humor in the fact that you wrote "There is no god but Allah." about four times.



JWeinCom on 18 December 2015
Shiken said:
JWeinCom said:

 

Based on your responses so far I think you're being contrarian for the sake of being contrary.  But I'll humor you and see if I'm wrong.

"There's a difference though. One is stating the foundation of an entire religion, the other is a Bible verse saying if you're Christian, then to DisneyLand you go."

I don't see how it's different.  What does it matter if it's the foundation or not?  Children should never be forced to say anything that goes against their beliefs, verbally or in writing.  

And, if you're writing that Muhammed is the prophet Allah, then all the rest of the Quran kind of goes along with it.  It's no different from John 3:16 or whatever, because by extension you are saying implicitly the Quran is true, and everything Muhammed said is true.  So all the silly stuff like Muhammed cut the moon in two goes with that.

 

"Personally, I don't care if you do so! Did the teachers ever say "Hey, we're gonna make you submit to all religions!" ? I recall people back then being able to visit churches, mosques, temples, and much more without people complaining. I don't see why 2015 people suddenly need to feel offended by everything that doesn't make them happy-dappy."

This is a total non-sequitor.   People could go wherever they want and not be offended.  But, when a publicly funded institution instructs children to say "There is no god but Allah." That's a violation of the constitution.  This is not a new thing.

 

"It's erroneous. It's childish. I assure you that if I had a child with an assignment such as this, I would let them do the assignment. Why? Because it helps the student understand the faiths of others. "

You are free to have your child write whatever nonsense he wants.  My kids wouldn't do the assignment.  Unless they somehow wound up Muslim.  And this is not simply helping understand the religions of others.
There is a big difference between saying "Muslims believe that Allah is the one true god." And saying "There is no god but Allah."  If the kids were writing the first statement, there would be no issue.
If you don't get this, try this thought experiment.  Would you feel comfortable making a post on social media saying, "Jared Fogle believes it is ok to have sex with children?"  I'm guessing you would.  I mean, it'd be weird to say unprompted, but you may do it if there was a reason.

On the other hand, would you write on social media "It is ok to have sex with children."  I'm guessing you wouldn't post that one.
To sum it up "There is no god from Allah" =/= "Muslims believe that there is no god but Allah."
"Name any religion- Jewdism, Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Sikhism, as long as they aren't making it where they force them to believe in the religion(which never happened here), then let the child learn some basic information about other people!"
And why does this education have to involve writing a statement that may violate many individuals personal beliefs, and in some cases their religious beliefs?  Nobody is saying it is wrong to teach about religion, so please stop using this strawman argument.  They are arguing against the specific way it is being taught.
"How is this an attack on one's religion if you're simply writing down words? I'd love to know. I'm not a Christian. However, I would happily write down Bible verses talking about the foundation of Christianity. It's the tolerant thing to do. I am not fond on Christianity. BUT, I am not a bigot, and realize that it is important to understand the faith of 2.1 billion people on Earth. If I didn't think it was important, i'd probably sound as dumb as the parents crying over the assignment"
Saying "I'm not a bigot" is a rather slimy way to imply that those who have a problem with the assignment are.
Do you know what the word tolerant means?  Because it doesn't seem like you do.
Tolerant means that if someone says that Allah is the one true god, you let them.  If your teacher is telling you about Islam, you listen respectfully.  It does not mean you have to actually participate or write something you don't agree with.  You would happily write bible verses?  Well grab a pen and a bible and knock yourself out.

As an atheist I am incredibly uncomfortable saying anything implying a belief in a deity.  It is something I totally don't believe, and I wouldn't want to say it, write it, sing it, trace it, or whatever.  And if something makes students or their parents uncomfortable, why is it necessary?
To sum it up, you don't have to respond to every point.  Just respond to this one.

You think teaching religion is important?  Fine, agreed.  Is it necessary to write "There is no god but Allah?" to learn about the religion?  Can students get a full understanding of Islam without writing that down?  If we can learn about Islam without this, why should we force students to do something which they may have intellectual, moral, or religious objections to?

 


As a Christian, you took my thoughts and put them into much better words.  Thank you my atheist friend, you hit tbe nail on the head!

 

Yeah.  I mean, to me this isn't a matter of Christian vs Atheist, Atheist vs Muslim, Christian vs Muslim, or whatever.

 

It's a matter of secularism vs non-secularism.  Seems pretty clear that children should not be forced to write something they may not agree with.  I'll assume it was an honest mistake on the teacher's part, and the reaction was disproportionate, but still a stupid move on the teacher's part.  As a teacher (sorta), I'm 99% sure this happened because they were being lazy, and xeroxed a homework sheet without really paying attention.



JWeinCom on 18 December 2015
hershel_layton said:
Shiken said:

 


As a Christian, you took my thoughts and put them into much better words.  Thank you my atheist friend, you hit tbe nail on the head!

 

That was actually a very intellectual and well though out response. I'm actually quite shocked...I've never sounded this stupid in quite some time. I do feel embarassed though, and disappointed in the effort I put into this topic.

 

(Applause)

 

Ok, so I guess I was wrong about you doing this simply to troll.  Nothing wrong with being wrong as well as you're willing to listen to others and adjust your opinion if need be.



Yerm on 18 December 2015

im not entirely sure if i would want this to be a required assignment but to shut down an entire school district is ridiculous



hershel_layton on 18 December 2015
Yerm said:
im not entirely sure if i would want this to be a required assignment but to shut down an entire school district is ridiculous

It could have been fixed after school. Though, the staff said they shut the schools down because they began to have extremely negative backlash, fearing of potential threats to occur.





 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.