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Forums - Movies & TV - The Force Awakens sucks! *MAJOR SPOILERS*

padib said:

If the force is more important than swordfighting skills to determine the winner, why did Kylo struggle against Finn?

 

He didnt struggle. He was playing with him. Watch it again.

He uses one hand for the majority of the fight. He knocks him to the ground and lets him get back up. He's showboating with his saber. He pins him up against the tree and tortures him.

It's only when Finn gets in the lucky shot that Kylo stops screwing around, and drops him immediately.



                            

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amp316 said:

No, I did not watch the move.  I have no idea who this Ham guy is that you keep talking about.  Okay, so let's say that the Knights of Ren were created by Snoke.  Kylo Ren was implied to have led the Knights into Luke's temple and destroy it.  It scares Luke enough to the point where he goes into hiding.  This is another problem.  Why doesn't Luke just kick the crap out of his student if he is such a novice as so many are claiming?  Oh, Luke must've been off you say.  Now you're just making stuff up to fit your argument as you have throughout this thread.  Wouldn't Luke have returned and whooped him.   This might have happened.  That might have happened.  You're basically telling me that you understand everything better than I do about this movie because your imagination works.

You're right in a way.  TFA isn't supposed to be a standalone movie.  It's part 7 in a series.  There has been a gap between of about 30 years between VI an VII.  What does it tell us happened in those 30 years?  Wait.  Let's see... Pretty much nothing. 



OMG hes name ends with with an n, that changes EVERYTHING. Nowhere its implied Luke was scared, what Han says is that he left because he tought he did more harm than good (forgot the exact words but its somewhere along those lines) and the only shot of Luke during the fall of the jedi Order is him with his hand on top of R2 looking from afar. If there was a confrontation with Luke himself the visions didnt show and it seens rather unlikely that Kylo would have any chance of winning. Its also very likely that Kylo was older than every other student as he was probably the first new jedi Luke took under his wing, being his nephew and all. It seens its more out of shame than anything that Luke vanished, imagine how itd feel to look into your sisters eyes and know you failled her son. There might be some conection to Rey in there or Snoke as well, there realy isnt much told about the whole faling of Lukes Order yet, this will be expanded upon on VIII as Luke will have to talk to Rey about stuff now.

Kinda hard to tell 30+ years of story and a new movie at the same time. The story about what happened btween Eps III and IV is never fully told in movies either, it was later turned into novels and now we have Star Wars Rebels the animated series, telling us just that.

 

padib said:
Carl2291 said:

He didnt struggle. He was playing with him. Watch it again.

He uses one hand for the majority of the fight. He knocks him to the ground and lets him get back up. He's showboating with his saber. He pins him up against the tree and tortures him.

It's only when Finn gets in the lucky shot that Kylo stops screwing around, and drops him immediately.

So the planet is exploding, Kylo is distraught from murdering his father to the point where he can't stop a bow shot, and he's having fun with Finn.

I'm expected to be impressed by this character?

The planet isnt exploding while he is fighting Finn, its also not exploding when he starts the duel with Rey, its only mid duel with Rey that Poe destroys the Oscilator. He is obvioulsy punishing Finn, the whole "TRAITOR!!!" yell kinda gives it away that he didnt like the guy too much, and Rey is knowcked out so its not like he saw her as a threat, he could take his time and have some fun torturing Finn. He does so up until Finn hits him, than he ends the duel in 2 second. So screwed up Kylo Ren completly dominates Finn, no inconsistencys there, basicaly Ren at his worse was still much better than Finn with a lightsaber, he wasnt better than Rey during an outburst of "power" tough.



padib said:
Carl2291 said:

He didnt struggle. He was playing with him. Watch it again.

He uses one hand for the majority of the fight. He knocks him to the ground and lets him get back up. He's showboating with his saber. He pins him up against the tree and tortures him.

It's only when Finn gets in the lucky shot that Kylo stops screwing around, and drops him immediately.

So the planet is exploding, Kylo is distraught from murdering his father to the point where he can't stop a bow shot, and he's having fun with Finn.

I'm expected to be impressed by this character?

Yes.  The next movie Snoke will have trained him more and when he's a complete bad ass we are supposed to accept it.  It would have been better if he was played by Rick Moranis.  

Seriously, did anyone else get the impression that The Force Awakens was a bad parody of A New Hope?





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DakonBlackblade said:
Lawlight said:

That's some revisionist stuff right there. People didn't believe the Jedi existed? It's quite clear from the prequels that people have accepted the fact that Jedis exist. The Jedi even led military missions after all so they existed. The feats accomplished by the Jedis like levitation or force-choke existed as well and was demonstrable. This isn't the Greek gods era where you cannot prove stuff. It's an era where technology is advanced.

As I said, it's just a plot hole.



Everyone knew they existed, almost no one believed what they could do, they dindt do that stuf in public at all. Han Solo and the entire Rebel Army on Ep IV wich is liek 30 years after the prequels tought the jedis realy coudlnt do all that stuff legends told they could, and thats closer to EPs 1-3 than Ep VII is, and thats also from the original trilogy. So ye everyone always threated jedis kinda like myths, they new the republic had this order that called themselves that and that they were military leaders, the Force and "space wizardry" part is far from being common knowledge. In fact most of the galaxy dont even believe the Force is a thing, that has always been the case.



The very fact that people treated Jedis like a myth is a problem. Again, that's like saying that the SS was a myth. And not just Jedis, less than 30 years later people were threating the actual person named Luke Skywalker as a myth. No video footage of them deflecting laser shots? Or using force push? There is literally no way to explain this.





Not sure if anyone already mentioned it, but the character of Finn feels like it was written by a child. He wants to defect from the Order because he cant handle all the killing, but starts killing Storm Troopers almost immediately(from the turret of the escape ship) with 0 remorse. Old school Star Wars fans will be loathe to admit, but this really was a kid's movie. The franchise hasn't matured along with you.



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amp316 said:
padib said:
Carl2291 said:

He didnt struggle. He was playing with him. Watch it again.

He uses one hand for the majority of the fight. He knocks him to the ground and lets him get back up. He's showboating with his saber. He pins him up against the tree and tortures him.

It's only when Finn gets in the lucky shot that Kylo stops screwing around, and drops him immediately.

So the planet is exploding, Kylo is distraught from murdering his father to the point where he can't stop a bow shot, and he's having fun with Finn.

I'm expected to be impressed by this character?

Yes.  The next movie Snoke will have trained him more and when he's a complete bad ass we are supposed to accept it.  It would have been better if he was played by Rick Moranis.  

Seriously, did anyone else get the impression that The Force Awakens was a bad parody of A New Hope?



I wouldn't go that far but TFA looked like a movie that a fan who cannot write a script would do if given the budget required to reboot A New Hope.





Movie seemed fine to me, it's pretty much what I expected from a SW film.



Lawlight said:

The very fact that people treated Jedis like a myth is a problem. Again, that's like saying that the SS was a myth. And not just Jedis, less than 30 years later people were threating the actual person named Luke Skywalker as a myth. No video footage of them deflecting laser shots? Or using force push? There is literally no way to explain this.

 

Im not saying its a good explanation, it kinda isnt, Im just saying Ep VII was in acordance ot lore, cant realy blame the movie for doing that.





DakonBlackblade said:
amp316 said:

No, I did not watch the move.  I have no idea who this Ham guy is that you keep talking about.  Okay, so let's say that the Knights of Ren were created by Snoke.  Kylo Ren was implied to have led the Knights into Luke's temple and destroy it.  It scares Luke enough to the point where he goes into hiding.  This is another problem.  Why doesn't Luke just kick the crap out of his student if he is such a novice as so many are claiming?  Oh, Luke must've been off you say.  Now you're just making stuff up to fit your argument as you have throughout this thread.  Wouldn't Luke have returned and whooped him.   This might have happened.  That might have happened.  You're basically telling me that you understand everything better than I do about this movie because your imagination works.

You're right in a way.  TFA isn't supposed to be a standalone movie.  It's part 7 in a series.  There has been a gap between of about 30 years between VI an VII.  What does it tell us happened in those 30 years?  Wait.  Let's see... Pretty much nothing. 

 

OMG hes name ends with with an n, that changes EVERYTHING. Nowhere its implied Luke was scared, what Han says is that he left because he tought he did more harm than good. If there was a confrontation with Luke himself the visions didnt show and it seens rather unlikely that Kylo would have any chance of winning. Its also very likely that Kylow as older than every other student as he was liekly the first new jedi Luke took under his wing, being his nephew and all. It seens its more out of shame than anything that Luke vanished, imagine how itd feel to look into your sisters eyes and know you failled her son. There might be some conection to Rey in there, there realy sint much told about the whole faling of Lukes Order yet, this will be expanded upon most lilelly on VIII ad Luke will have to talk to Rey about stuff now.

Kinda hard to tell 30+ years of story and a new movie at the same time. The story about what happened btween Eps III and IV is never told in movies either, it was later turned into novels and now we have Star Wars Rebels the animated series, telling us just that.

 


Yep, it would be difficult to tell my sister that I failed her son, but I wouldn't hide out in order to allow him to lead the First Order and slaughter innocent people.  Luke Skywalker is a hero.  Not a coward...  He fought against the Empire and would do so against the First Order.  More specualation on things that you don't know.  Just guesswork.

At the end of III we see Luke and Leia born, where they are taken to, Vader, Palpatine, and Tarkin together, and at the beginning of IV they explain that the Senate has been dissolved.  Like him or not, Lucas told a cohesive story and we see both of Anakin / Vader's lightsaber duels.  We don't have to guess what happened.  If anything the complaint is that Lucas explained too much.  This movie explained nothing.



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AllfatherStarr said:
Not sure if anyone already mentioned it, but the character of Finn feels like it was written by a child. He wants to defect from the Order because he cant handle all the killing, but starts killing Storm Troopers almost immediately(from the turret of the escape ship) with 0 remorse. Old school Star Wars fans will be loathe to admit, but this really was a kid's movie. The franchise hasn't matured along with you.

 

Not just that but he was supposed to have been trained and brainwashed by a Nazi-like regime since he was a kid. But he was also, apparently, part of the sanitation team? He also jeopardizes the whole mission putting entire planets and millions/billions of lives at risk just so he can find Rey? A character he met for a brief moment - because she was the first person to treat him as a person, even though Poe did that before. Speaking of Poe, how quickly did he befriend Finn? And apparently, you can steal a tie fighter quite easily. Dude, you cannot even steal a car that easily.

In any case, Finn's only purpose was to be the comic relief so they didn't even bother written a half-decent character. So many characters were wasted here - Captain Phasma, the Raid guys (and here I was expecting some cool fisticuffs), Lupita Nyongo (why bother with the mocap?), Liam Gleeson who's only purpose was to make the New Order look like Nazis. Poe was wasted as well. I think he'll just end up being Finn's love interest.