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Forums - Movies & TV - The Force Awakens sucks! *MAJOR SPOILERS*

amp316 said:

Well that makes sense.  That's why Vader got beat down by Leia after he cut off Luke's hand...  Also, he was all messed up and weak after he killed his mentor, Obi-Wan.  He couldn't fly a Tie Fighter or anything.  Good to see how things are staying true to the Star Wars universe.



Youre in denial by this point it seens. Leia and Rey cant be compared at all, its not even entirely sure if Leia is force sensitive and even if she is theres realy no paralel that can be stabilished to Rey, so ye whatever.

Also Darth Vader was a freaking fully trained Sith Lord, who had already killed 1 entire generation of young jedis on cold blood, backstabed Mace Windu, dueled his own master when he almost died and dueled his master again and this time killed him. Kylo Ren is a conflicted young boy who is being manipulated by Snoke and thinks hes doing the right thing but internaly is super conflicted, theres also no paralel there.

And even Vader being Vader, in the end his emotions get the best of him and Luke wins the Ep VI duel and Vader kills Sidius and all that so ye, theres that. 





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DakonBlackblade said:
amp316 said:

Well that makes sense.  That's why Vader got beat down by Leia after he cut off Luke's hand...  Also, he was all messed up and weak after he killed his mentor, Obi-Wan.  He couldn't fly a Tie Fighter or anything.  Good to see how things are staying true to the Star Wars universe.



Youre in denial by this point it seens. Leia and Rey cant be compared at all, its not even entirely sure if Leia is force sensitive and even if she is theres realy no paralel that can be stabilished to Rey, so ye that was retarded.

Also Darth Vader was a freaking fully trained Sith Lord, who had already killed 1 entire generation of young jedis on cold blood, backstabed Mace Windu, dueled his own master almost dieing and dueled his master again and this time killed him. Kylo Ren is a conflicted young boy who is being manipulated by Snoke and thinks hes doing the right thing but internaly he is super conflicted, theres also no paralel there.

And even Vader being Vader, in the end his emotions get the best of him and Luke wins the Ep VI duel and Vader kills Sidius and all that so ye, theres that. 



Hmm.  We aren't sure if Leia is force sensitive?  How did she hear Luke calling out to him at the end of the Empire Strikes Back when he was hanging upside down from that weather attenna?  Once again.  Hmm.  Maybe your knowledge of the history of this franchise isn't that good.

When Anakin was a conflicted young boy in Attack Of the Clones and only a Padawan learner under Obi-Wan he held his own for a little while against Count Dooku, who was at one time on the Jedi counsel and trained as a Sith Lord under Sidious.  I don't think that he would have been beaten down by someone that just picked up a lightsaber for the very first time, injury or not.  

I'm sorry, but I think that either you don't have much knowledge of the previous movies and the mythos of the force that was built upon or that you are in denial over the major problems in this latest installment of the series.  Seriously, look through all the BS and see TFA for what it really is.  A good looking movie with several flaws.  





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Tag "Sorry man. Someone pissed in my Wheaties."

"There are like ten games a year that sell over a million units."  High Voltage CEO -  Eric Nofsinger

The bigger question is how did people forget about Jedi within the span of a couple of generations? That's like forgetting that the Nazis existed in 2016.



Lawlight said:
The bigger question is how did people forget about Jedi within the span of a couple of generations? That's like forgetting that the Nazis existed in 2016.

 

Everything you heard its true...  or whatever the dumb line was.

This movie didn't forget the Nazis though.  Hux had that stupid Nazi rally for no reason. 



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amp316 said:
DakonBlackblade said:

Youre in denial by this point it seens. Leia and Rey cant be compared at all, its not even entirely sure if Leia is force sensitive and even if she is theres realy no paralel that can be stabilished to Rey, so ye that was retarded.

Also Darth Vader was a freaking fully trained Sith Lord, who had already killed 1 entire generation of young jedis on cold blood, backstabed Mace Windu, dueled his own master almost dieing and dueled his master again and this time killed him. Kylo Ren is a conflicted young boy who is being manipulated by Snoke and thinks hes doing the right thing but internaly he is super conflicted, theres also no paralel there.

And even Vader being Vader, in the end his emotions get the best of him and Luke wins the Ep VI duel and Vader kills Sidius and all that so ye, theres that. 



Hmm.  We aren't sure if Leia is force sensitive?  How did she hear Luke calling out to him at the end of the Empire Strikes Back when he was hanging upside down from that weather attenna?  Once again.  Hmm.  Maybe your knowledge of the history of this franchise isn't that good.

When Anakin was a conflicted young boy in Attack Of the Clones and only a Padawan learner under Obi-Wan he held his own for a little while against Count Dooku, who was at one time on the Jedi counsel and trained as a Sith Lord under Sidious.  I don't think that he would have been beaten down by someone that just picked up a lightsaber for the very first time, injury or not.  

I'm sorry, but I think that either you don't have much knowledge of the previous movies and the mythos of the force that was built upon or that you are in denial over the major problems in this latest installment of the series.  Seriously, look through all the BS and see TFA for what it really is.  A good looking movie with several flaws.  

Anakin had 0 conflicts going on on during the Dokhu fight, being conflicted as a person is not the same as going trough an emotional breakdown during the duel. And he looses the duel kinda easilly (also you changed your reference cause the first one you sued about the Cloud City duel was pretty lame and you likely noticed it). And Leia and Rey have 0 paralels, Leia does some very, very minor stuf that were probably guided by the force (like noticing Ham died on FA or hearing Luke), her conection to the force is likely very minor, they never made it clear if she could have been a jedi if she wanted, Rey is so conected ot the force that the moment she touches that lightsaber it sends ripples trough the force that Snoke notices her awakening from freaking wherever the hell he is.

Ihave perfect knowldge of the mythos ty. This movie was very very easy to understand and it follows the mythos betetr than even Lucas himself did in the prequels. You just chose not to understandnig anything that was shown to you, liek you selected not to take into consideration Rys years of fighting in Jakku as training and that Kylo Rens weakened state was a problem during the duel. 

Lawlight said:
The bigger question is how did people forget about Jedi within the span of a couple of generations? That's like forgetting that the Nazis existed in 2016.

Even when the jedis were on theyre peak lots of ppl didnt believe or were skeptical about what they could or could not do. Tham The Empire slaughters the Jedis and make talking about them forbiden. Years go by like this, already on EP IV many dont believe the Jedi were space wizards or even existed. Vader is kinda like the boggieman for the comonfolk, no one even suspects Palpatine is a sith. Luke comes defeats the empire but hes just 1 dude, he doesnt go into public saying, hey Im a jedi look what I cna do. He tries to start the New Jedi Order, shit goes awry, he goes into exile. No one is talking about jedis for like 60+ years now. Also we only know what Finn and Rey tells us, Finn knows the Force exists (or at least has the notion that space magic is real), knows about Luke Skywalker and the the First Order wants him but likely dont know the extent of his power. Rey lived in a remote planet her whole life where nothing of galatic importance realy ahppened, she only heard stories. 



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Lawlight said:
The bigger question is how did people forget about Jedi within the span of a couple of generations? That's like forgetting that the Nazis existed in 2016.

I think they will say everyone has been using Guardian Forces all this time in the next Star Wars film, that will explain everything.



Nintendo is selling their IPs to Microsoft and this is true because:

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DakonBlackblade said:
amp316 said:

Hmm.  We aren't sure if Leia is force sensitive?  How did she hear Luke calling out to him at the end of the Empire Strikes Back when he was hanging upside down from that weather attenna?  Once again.  Hmm.  Maybe your knowledge of the history of this franchise isn't that good.

When Anakin was a conflicted young boy in Attack Of the Clones and only a Padawan learner under Obi-Wan he held his own for a little while against Count Dooku, who was at one time on the Jedi counsel and trained as a Sith Lord under Sidious.  I don't think that he would have been beaten down by someone that just picked up a lightsaber for the very first time, injury or not.  

I'm sorry, but I think that either you don't have much knowledge of the previous movies and the mythos of the force that was built upon or that you are in denial over the major problems in this latest installment of the series.  Seriously, look through all the BS and see TFA for what it really is.  A good looking movie with several flaws.  



Anakin had 0 conflicts going on on during the Dooku fight, being conflicted as a person is not the same as going trough an emotional breakdown during the duel. And he looses the duel kinda easilly. And Leia and Rey have 0 paralels, Leia does some very, very minor stuf that were probably guided by the force (like noticing Ham died on FA or hearing Luke), her conection to the force is likely very minor, they never made it clear if she could have been a jedi if she wanted, Rey is so conected ot the force that the moment she touches that lightsaber it sends ripples trough the force that Snoke notices her awakening from freaking wherever the hell he is.

Ihave perfect knowldge of the mythos ty. This movie was very very easy to understand and it follows the mythos betetr than even Lucas himself did in the prequels. You just chose not to understandnig anything that was shown to you, liek you selected not to take into consideration Rys years of fighting in Jakku as training and that Kylo Rens weakened state was a problem during the duel. 



 

Anakin had 0 conflicts going on during his fight with Dooku?  I must have imagined that part where Padme fell out of that low flying craft into the desert and Anakin demanded for them to go back because he thought that she might have died.  He also didn't show a lot of anger toward Dooku for all of the of the Jedi that he killed.  Yoda also implied that Leia was their last hope to Obi-Wan when he said that Luke was.  Also, Vader though that she was powerful enough to turn her to the Dark Side if Luke wouldn't do so.  Am I misremembering anything?

Yeah, Rey could fight with a staff on Jakku and even if that does equal lightsaber training as you suggest, how can she do a force pull without training?  A mind trick?  Read minds?  Be the best star pilot in the galaxy?  Know more about the Falcon than Han?  What's the point of watching the next film?  She's already the best at everything.  I'll tell you my reason for watching it.  Because I've been a fan of this series for almost 40 years and I hope that the next one is better.  It can't get much worse.

 



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amp316 said:

Anakin had 0 conflicts going on during his fight with Dooku.  I must have imagined that part where Padme fell out of that low flying craft into the desert and demanded for them to go back because he thought that she might have died.  He also didn't show a lot of anger toward Dooku for all of the of the Jedi that she killed.  Yoda also implied that Leia was their last hope to Obi-Wan when he said that Luke was.  Also, Vader though tthat she was powerful enough to turn her to the Dark Side if Luke wouldn't do so.  Am I misremembering anything?

Yeah, Rey could fight with a staff on Jakku and even if that does equal lightsaber training as you suggest, how can she do a force pull without training?  A mind trick?  Read minds?  Be the best star pilot in the galaxy?  Know more about the Falcon than Han?  What's the point of watching the next film?  She's already the best at everything.  I'll tell you my reason for watching it.  Because I've been a fan of this series for almost 40 years and I hope that the next one is better.  It can't get much worse.

 

Anakin was angry at that duel (he was angry quite often) anger is good for the dark side, he always taped into the dark side even when he dindt realy know, so if anything he was more powerfull. Kylo was a mess, he was not sure how he felt, specialy cause he believed killing Ham would solve all his problems, and its very clear in Adam Drivers eyes when Ham touches his face it didnt. He keeps hititng himself to feel pain and try to harness that, and it is only exactly after hitting his wound that he force pushes Rey into the tree, than he does nothing else that requires force mastery.

Theres 1 million things implied about Leia, it was never made clear if she coudlve been a jedi (or a compeetent one), as soon as Luke comes into the picture everyone goes, ye no that kid has the Force in spades, lets just forget about Leia being the last hope and all that. Snoke kinda does the same thing with Kylo, he was very ready to discard Kylo in favor of Rey, he even asks that shed be brought to him. Dark Side users tend to do that, Sidius did it multiple times, everytime hed find someone more powerfull than he current aprentice he just swapped aprentices.

Her staff skills equals trainig in hand to hand combat, and Rey fights kinda badly with that lightsber, she stabs and swings in arcs, kinda like you would fight with a staff, she also gets owned by a screwed up Kylo Ren during 80% of the fight, its only on the very end that she has the uper hand (and even during that outburst shes still stabing and swinging in arcs, shes just doing it much faster and with precision, aka her physical atributes are enhanced).  She doesnt read minds, she resists Kylos mind read and it backfires on him. Force pull on something as small as a lightsaber is the basic of the basic. The only problem I see is the mind trick, that is too specific to just try (even tough in recent material it has been made a relatively easy skill to pull, with Ezra and Ashoka learning it very fast at a very young age). Possible explanations are that the lightsaber imprinted some knowledge into her (it defiently did that, now to wich extent is up in the air), or that she did have training under Luke when he stabilished the New Order and Luke or someone took her to Jakku to hide her there once Kylo screwed everything, or that she learned some stuff when she was in Kylos mind, one of the multiple force spirits (Obiwan, Yodda or Anakin for instance - she does hear all of theyre voices during the vision sequence) were guiding her, or she simply tried stuff she learned from the jedis legends (this one is a bad explanation but one noetheless). If comes Ep VIII the oficial explanation is the one that she just tried stuff she heard the jedi could do and it worked cause she had awoken to the Force and she is that strong, its gona be meh but it does make sense.

 

Also a lot of the complains sbput "why would I watch the other movies, she knows everything already" is not taking into consideration she was doing stuff as spurs of the moments, she had no time to process and think about anything. She wil now be faced with the burden of having to save the galaxy, maybe even having to convince Luke to go out of hiding, self doubts, the pull of the dark side, fear etc. All this comes now.



DakonBlackblade said:

Lawlight said:
The bigger question is how did people forget about Jedi within the span of a couple of generations? That's like forgetting that the Nazis existed in 2016.

Even when the jedis were on theyre peak lots of ppl didnt believe or were skeptical about what they could or could not do. Tham The Empire slaughters the Jedis and make talking about them forbiden. Years go by like this, already on EP IV many dont believe the Jedi were space wizards or even existed. Vader is kinda like the boggieman for the comonfolk, no one even suspects Palpatine is a sith. Luke comes defeats the empire but hes just 1 dude, he doesnt go into public saying, hey Im a jedi look what I cna do. He tries to start the New Jedi Order, shit goes awry, he goes into exile. No one is talking about jedis for like 60+ years now. Also we only know what Finn and Rey tells us, Finn knows the Force exists (or at least has the notion that space magic is real), knows about Luke Skywalker and the the First Order wants him but likely dont know the extent of his power. Rey lived in a remote planet her whole life where nothing of galatic importance realy ahppened, she only heard stories. 

 



I'm sorry but that must be one small galaxy then if they are able to erase all records of the Jedis. At their peak, which is less than 2 generations ago, the Jedis had a council that the republic worked with. Also, Jedis were around for about 30,000 years and all it took was a few decades to erase everything?

Sounds like a plot hole resulting from them wanting to add mystery to the whole force/jedi thing.



Lawlight said:

I'm sorry but that must be one small galaxy then if they are able to erase all records of the Jedis. At their peak, which is less than 2 generations ago, the Jedis had a council that the republic worked with. Also, Jedis were around for about 30,000 years and all it took was a few decades to erase everything?

Sounds like a plot hole resulting from them wanting to add mystery to the whole force/jedi thing.

It steams from the fact ppl didnt believe the Jedi to be real in the first place, not in the space wizards sense, they were numerous but not that numerous, its like there was less than 1k jedis during theyre peak. They were never seen much and acted as generals on the Clone Wars. There were stories but many treated it like legends. On the novels as soon as palpatine eradicates the jedi order and forbids any mention of the jedis questioning about what the jedis could realy do start spreading around the commonfolk like wildfire, and if they were in fact traitors. Only the high ups in the republic realy knew what the jedis could do, most ppl only saw them as military generals.

On the EU (wich isnt canon anymore but anyway there are stories) on the Old Republic days, when the first jedi purge hapened it also took no time for ppl turn Jedis into legends. This concept/notion that the galaxy at large always kinda tought they were myths permeates every novel/movie and whatnot.

Not saying it makes much sense, Im saying the movie was consistent with the lore on that aspect and I can acept it as a plausibel explanation at least.