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Forums - Movies & TV - The Force Awakens sucks! *MAJOR SPOILERS*

DakonBlackblade said:

Too many ppl complaining about unexplained stuf in the first movie of a trilogy, its suposed to have unexplained stuf otherwise it would be just 1 movie not a trilogy. That aside the main tipics ppl bring up were clearly explained withim the movie to anyone who was actualy paying atention.

About Kylos duel, he isnt well trained Snoke makes this painfully obvious like 4 times in the movie, hes strong with the force but he doesnt realy ahve all that controll over it, and who would he pratice dueling wiht ? His moves during the duels are all wide and somewhat goofy, he obviously isnt great with a lightsaber (yet). Finn has training in hand to hand combat, hes a stormtrooper and we even get to see one stormtrooper whos a elite at hand to hand combat (who would probably have beat Kylo on a 1x1 duel if Kylo couldnt use the force to choke, push and stuf) fighting with a vibro staf, its not far fetched to think every stormtrooper gets to train with a vibro blade, specialy considering the first order knows jedis exists, and finn looses both duels he has in the movie, the first we see he knows how to handle himself but isnt anything great, the second he still isnt anything greta but hes fighting an injured Kylo and hes fighting with added motivation as he is protecting Rey. Rey knows how to fight with a staff very well, she was not completly untrained and was fighting a 2x injuried Kylo (one of the injuries came from a weapon that wouldve killed anyone who couldnt use the force btw, the movie showed that bow blaster blowing ppl up 3x at least), and she awakens completly to the force mid duel giving her an edge. On top of all that Kylo, hows conflicted troughout the movie, has just kiled his father and trough Adam Drivers expression we can see he is having second toughts cause that most likely didnt queltch the "temptation of the light".

About Rey learning stuf, she knows the legends (thats also made very evident 2x on the movies), its implied that she knew already she had the force but didnt want to belive/admit it, she had already had a vision so she felt the force vividly already, she had an episode where she was inside Kylos mind, she now had all the info she needed to try doing force stuf. A jedi mind trink is pretty basic (specialy performed on a stormtrooper standing 1 inch from her looking straight to her eyes), as well as a force pull, thats basicaly what she does, atuning to the force to become faster and have faster reflexes is also basic and she does what Mas Kanata told her to do, close her eyes and feel the force around her. Another snipet showing how shes using the force to do stuf even before she properly awakens to it is the scene shes shooting with a blaster, the first shot misses completly, the second she hits square in the face of the stormtrooper and Daisy Ridley totaly changes her expression when pulling the triget the second time, she has a look of pure focus and peace, after the shot lands Rey looks to the blaster puzzled, like questioning herself, what the hell have I done, and than she proceeds to land 2 more shots.

Another consideration, Rey is clearly super strong with the force, probably Anakin level or maybe more so, Anakin to those who dont know was good at everything he tried to do and he mastered the force younger than anyone else has ever mastered, even as a child he could use the force to do stuf (like the pod racing scene on Ep 1) without realy knowing what he was doing. Reys true awakening to the force is such a hughe event that it sends ripples on the force all the way to Snoke, the dude notices her awakening, its not just any everyday force user that can cause a disturbance in the force of this proportion, Kylo Ren is dead scared after he atempts to read Reys mind and notices the extent of her power, he knows the girl is OP and he tells it to Snoke: "shes strong with the force, untrained, but stronger than she knows" are his exact words and theyre delivered by an Adam Driver in a shacky voice looking like hes beginning to panick .

The movie actualy does an awesome job of telling everything we need to know, its all there, multiple scenes showing the effect of that bow blaster, Snoke telling Kylo he needs more training, Mas Kanata telling Rey how to let the force in, stormtroopers knowing how to fight hand to hand, Reys skill with a staff, Adan Drivers expression of fear when he feels Reys power, the mentions that Rey has heard about the jedis legends etc. You ppl just didnt pay atention to any of that, or to the actors expressions and body language, and would prefer a 100% exposition movie it seens.

To finish its possible that Rey had previous training and had her mind wiped when she was hiden in Jakku, I dont think thats the case but thats a plausible theory lots of ppl seen to think will be the case once Ep 8 comes around. Someone definetly hid her in Jakku, it mightve been to protect her when Kylo started killing the other jedis on Lukes new Jedi Order.

 

WOW Go watch the older ones again please  Both Anakin and Luke Still needed lots of training to do the Jedi Mind Trick it's not that simple as you put it. Luke doesn't do it until 6 and Anakin in the beginning of 3. Also Everyone needs to be TRAINED Yoda says so himself. Go watch the movies again refresh mind. You mention everything in the current movie to make your facts stand out but forget the first 6 rules.



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A little video that hits on my biggest beef with VII. 

 

EDIT: And, no, there's no excuse as to why Kylo gets whipped on by two absolute beginners - no matter their innate Force sensitivity. He's young, yes. His training in the Dark Side is incomplete, yes. BUT he has been trained, he's part of the Knights of Ren - who he unquestionably spars with - AND he began his training as a youth under LUKE SKYWALKER. 

Let's not try to wash this one away, people. This is a major indicator that the people who are currently writing the Star Wars films are not versed in the culture or canon. This was (partially) relieved in the Trek films by creating an alternate universe/timeline for the rebooted franchise. Unfortunately, Disney is playing these new flicks off as sequels (not remakes). 



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StuOhQ said:

A little video that hits on my biggest beef with VII. 

 

EDIT: And, no, there's no excuse as to why Kylo gets whipped on by two absolute beginners - no matter their innate Force sensitivity. He's young, yes. His training in the Dark Side is incomplete, yes. BUT he has been trained, he's part of the Knights of Ren - who he unquestionably spars with - AND he began his training as a youth under LUKE SKYWALKER. 

Let's not try to wash this one away, people. This is a major indicator that the people who are currently writing the Star Wars films are not versed in the culture or canon. This was (partially) relieved in the Trek films by creating an alternate universe/timeline for the rebooted franchise. Unfortunately, Disney is playing these new flicks off as sequels (not remakes). 

Lol nice I just said this over on a Star Wars ranking thread





A bit too much forced humour, but I enjoyed it overall.

I'm actually kind of excited for the next one, while with Episode I - III I was completely indifferent.



DolPhanTendo said:
StuOhQ said:

A little video that hits on my biggest beef with VII. 

 

EDIT: And, no, there's no excuse as to why Kylo gets whipped on by two absolute beginners - no matter their innate Force sensitivity. He's young, yes. His training in the Dark Side is incomplete, yes. BUT he has been trained, he's part of the Knights of Ren - who he unquestionably spars with - AND he began his training as a youth under LUKE SKYWALKER. 

Let's not try to wash this one away, people. This is a major indicator that the people who are currently writing the Star Wars films are not versed in the culture or canon. This was (partially) relieved in the Trek films by creating an alternate universe/timeline for the rebooted franchise. Unfortunately, Disney is playing these new flicks off as sequels (not remakes). 

Lol nice I just said this over on a Star Wars ranking thread



You are asuming the knights of Ren even keep in touch wich each other or that they even have lightsabers, or are forse sensitive, on the one scene we seen them none of them is wielding a lightsaber, only Kylo. Also there is such a thing as jedis/syths/force users who excell at manipulating the force (Kylo obviously does, he freaking stops a blaster shot) but arent very good at lightsbaer duesl, the other way around is also true. And Kylo Ren had just been shot by what is basicaly a grenade launcher, I still dont understand how ppl keep downplaying this, the movie made every effort to show us how destructive that blaster bow is, it even went trough the troble of having Han Solo say "wow this is realy powerfull" after blowing up 3 stormtroopers with 1 shot, Kylo got shot in the guts and survived, he was limping and bleeding and still managed to duel and win 1 and a half duels. He actualy dominates Rey quite easily (shes back padling the whole first half of the duel) gets her with her backs to a cliff while having controll of her saber and doesnt kill her cause he wanted to bring her to the dark side, than the atunement to the force happens and Kylo is caught off guard by how fast and agile she becomes.

Btw I dont disagree with the video you linked, there are lots of plot similaritys, altough I tought FA is more like the plot of all 3 originals compressed together in one movie with some new stuf (specialy the way the villain works) thrown in there. It didnt bother me tough, JJ and Disney played it safe, the movie had to work they had a lot rinding in this one movie working, and it did.

DolPhanTendo said:

WOW Go watch the older ones again please  Both Anakin and Luke Still needed lots of training to do the Jedi Mind Trick it's not that simple as you put it. Luke doesn't do it until 6 and Anakin in the beginning of 3. Also Everyone needs to be TRAINED Yoda says so himself. Go watch the movies again refresh mind. You mention everything in the current movie to make your facts stand out but forget the first 6 rules.

Luke doesnt realy work as a comparision as Darth Vader, Sidius and Kenobi are also all super nerfed when compared to themselves on eps 1-3 or any other Star Wars lore, this is a sign of the passing of time, everything is more powerfull nowadays, even Superman is. Ben Kenobi for instance can use the mind trick but only issue very simple comands on 4-6, on the Clone Wars animated series (wich is canon) he can basicaly Kilgrave ppl, giving them entire lines of commands, thats the passing of time doing whats called "powercreep" where everything just gets more powerfull because otherwise it doesnt amaze anyone anymore. I honestly dont remember when Anakin learns mind trick, anyway again on the animated series (wich are canon) Ashoka learns it super fast and so does Erza now in Star Wars rebels, Ezra isnt a particulary powerfull jedi (Rey clearly is) and he is trained by a very average dude who didnt even manage to finish his own training and become a proper jedi knight. By curent, 2015, standards mind trick is basic even tough it wasnt before. Also its still unclear if Rey has had any past training or no, at least what regards her duelling we knew she was good at hand to hand combat from her days defending herself in Jakku.



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Hynad said:
DakonBlackblade said:

Too many ppl complaining about unexplained stuf in the first movie of a trilogy, its suposed to have unexplained stuf otherwise it would be just 1 movie not a trilogy. That aside the main tipics ppl bring up were clearly explained withim the movie to anyone who was actualy paying atention.

About Kylos duel, he isnt well trained Snoke makes this painfully obvious like 4 times in the movie, hes strong with the force but he doesnt realy ahve all that controll over it, and who would he pratice dueling wiht ? His moves during the duels are all wide and somewhat goofy, he obviously isnt great with a lightsaber (yet). Finn has training in hand to hand combat, hes a stormtrooper and we even get to see one stormtrooper whos a elite at hand to hand combat (who would probably have beat Kylo on a 1x1 duel if Kylo couldnt use the force to choke, push and stuf) fighting with a vibro staf, its not far fetched to think every stormtrooper gets to train with a vibro blade, specialy considering the first order knows jedis exists, and finn looses both duels he has in the movie, the first we see he knows how to handle himself but isnt anything great, the second he still isnt anything greta but hes fighting an injured Kylo and hes fighting with added motivation as he is protecting Rey. Rey knows how to fight with a staff very well, she was not completly untrained and was fighting a 2x injuried Kylo (one of the injuries came from a weapon that wouldve killed anyone who couldnt use the force btw, the movie showed that bow blaster blowing ppl up 3x at least), and she awakens completly to the force mid duel giving her an edge. On top of all that Kylo, hows conflicted troughout the movie, has just kiled his father and trough Adam Drivers expression we can see he is having second toughts cause that most likely didnt queltch the "temptation of the light".

About Rey learning stuf, she knows the legends (thats also made very evident 2x on the movies), its implied that she knew already she had the force but didnt want to belive/admit it, she had already had a vision so she felt the force vividly already, she had an episode where she was inside Kylos mind, she now had all the info she needed to try doing force stuf. A jedi mind trink is pretty basic (specialy performed on a stormtrooper standing 1 inch from her looking straight to her eyes), as well as a force pull, thats basicaly what she does, atuning to the force to become faster and have faster reflexes is also basic and she does what Mas Kanata told her to do, close her eyes and feel the force around her. Another snipet showing how shes using the force to do stuf even before she properly awakens to it is the scene shes shooting with a blaster, the first shot misses completly, the second she hits square in the face of the stormtrooper and Daisy Ridley totaly changes her expression when pulling the triget the second time, she has a look of pure focus and peace, after the shot lands Rey looks to the blaster puzzled, like questioning herself, what the hell have I done, and than she proceeds to land 2 more shots.

Another consideration, Rey is clearly super strong with the force, probably Anakin level or maybe more so, Anakin to those who dont know was good at everything he tried to do and he mastered the force younger than anyone else has ever mastered, even as a child he could use the force to do stuf (like the pod racing scene on Ep 1) without realy knowing what he was doing. Reys true awakening to the force is such a hughe event that it sends ripples on the force all the way to Snoke, the dude notices her awakening, its not just any everyday force user that can cause a disturbance in the force of this proportion, Kylo Ren is dead scared after he atempts to read Reys mind and notices the extent of her power, he knows the girl is OP and he tells it to Snoke: "shes strong with the force, untrained, but stronger than she knows" are his exact words and theyre delivered by an Adam Driver in a shacky voice looking like hes beginning to panick .

The movie actualy does an awesome job of telling everything we need to know, its all there, multiple scenes showing the effect of that bow blaster, Snoke telling Kylo he needs more training, Mas Kanata telling Rey how to let the force in, stormtroopers knowing how to fight hand to hand, Reys skill with a staff, Adan Drivers expression of fear when he feels Reys power, the mentions that Rey has heard about the jedis legends etc. You ppl just didnt pay atention to any of that, or to the actors expressions and body language, and would prefer a 100% exposition movie it seens.

To finish its possible that Rey had previous training and had her mind wiped when she was hiden in Jakku, I dont think thats the case but thats a plausible theory lots of ppl seen to think will be the case once Ep 8 comes around. Someone definetly hid her in Jakku, it mightve been to protect her when Kylo started killing the other jedis on Lukes new Jedi Order.

Indeed! It's like... How dare J.K. Rowling didn't explain in the first book/movie that Harry was a Horcrux !!!



 

DUDE! Spoilers!!



DolPhanTendo said:
DakonBlackblade said:

Too many ppl complaining about unexplained stuf in the first movie of a trilogy, its suposed to have unexplained stuf otherwise it would be just 1 movie not a trilogy. That aside the main tipics ppl bring up were clearly explained withim the movie to anyone who was actualy paying atention.

About Kylos duel, he isnt well trained Snoke makes this painfully obvious like 4 times in the movie, hes strong with the force but he doesnt realy ahve all that controll over it, and who would he pratice dueling wiht ? His moves during the duels are all wide and somewhat goofy, he obviously isnt great with a lightsaber (yet). Finn has training in hand to hand combat, hes a stormtrooper and we even get to see one stormtrooper whos a elite at hand to hand combat (who would probably have beat Kylo on a 1x1 duel if Kylo couldnt use the force to choke, push and stuf) fighting with a vibro staf, its not far fetched to think every stormtrooper gets to train with a vibro blade, specialy considering the first order knows jedis exists, and finn looses both duels he has in the movie, the first we see he knows how to handle himself but isnt anything great, the second he still isnt anything greta but hes fighting an injured Kylo and hes fighting with added motivation as he is protecting Rey. Rey knows how to fight with a staff very well, she was not completly untrained and was fighting a 2x injuried Kylo (one of the injuries came from a weapon that wouldve killed anyone who couldnt use the force btw, the movie showed that bow blaster blowing ppl up 3x at least), and she awakens completly to the force mid duel giving her an edge. On top of all that Kylo, hows conflicted troughout the movie, has just kiled his father and trough Adam Drivers expression we can see he is having second toughts cause that most likely didnt queltch the "temptation of the light".

About Rey learning stuf, she knows the legends (thats also made very evident 2x on the movies), its implied that she knew already she had the force but didnt want to belive/admit it, she had already had a vision so she felt the force vividly already, she had an episode where she was inside Kylos mind, she now had all the info she needed to try doing force stuf. A jedi mind trink is pretty basic (specialy performed on a stormtrooper standing 1 inch from her looking straight to her eyes), as well as a force pull, thats basicaly what she does, atuning to the force to become faster and have faster reflexes is also basic and she does what Mas Kanata told her to do, close her eyes and feel the force around her. Another snipet showing how shes using the force to do stuf even before she properly awakens to it is the scene shes shooting with a blaster, the first shot misses completly, the second she hits square in the face of the stormtrooper and Daisy Ridley totaly changes her expression when pulling the triget the second time, she has a look of pure focus and peace, after the shot lands Rey looks to the blaster puzzled, like questioning herself, what the hell have I done, and than she proceeds to land 2 more shots.

Another consideration, Rey is clearly super strong with the force, probably Anakin level or maybe more so, Anakin to those who dont know was good at everything he tried to do and he mastered the force younger than anyone else has ever mastered, even as a child he could use the force to do stuf (like the pod racing scene on Ep 1) without realy knowing what he was doing. Reys true awakening to the force is such a hughe event that it sends ripples on the force all the way to Snoke, the dude notices her awakening, its not just any everyday force user that can cause a disturbance in the force of this proportion, Kylo Ren is dead scared after he atempts to read Reys mind and notices the extent of her power, he knows the girl is OP and he tells it to Snoke: "shes strong with the force, untrained, but stronger than she knows" are his exact words and theyre delivered by an Adam Driver in a shacky voice looking like hes beginning to panick .

The movie actualy does an awesome job of telling everything we need to know, its all there, multiple scenes showing the effect of that bow blaster, Snoke telling Kylo he needs more training, Mas Kanata telling Rey how to let the force in, stormtroopers knowing how to fight hand to hand, Reys skill with a staff, Adan Drivers expression of fear when he feels Reys power, the mentions that Rey has heard about the jedis legends etc. You ppl just didnt pay atention to any of that, or to the actors expressions and body language, and would prefer a 100% exposition movie it seens.

To finish its possible that Rey had previous training and had her mind wiped when she was hiden in Jakku, I dont think thats the case but thats a plausible theory lots of ppl seen to think will be the case once Ep 8 comes around. Someone definetly hid her in Jakku, it mightve been to protect her when Kylo started killing the other jedis on Lukes new Jedi Order.

 

WOW Go watch the older ones again please  Both Anakin and Luke Still needed lots of training to do the Jedi Mind Trick it's not that simple as you put it. Luke doesn't do it until 6 and Anakin in the beginning of 3. Also Everyone needs to be TRAINED Yoda says so himself. Go watch the movies again refresh mind. You mention everything in the current movie to make your facts stand out but forget the first 6 rules.

 

If Yoda was asked to train Rey (Mysterio Jr.) he would say "No. She is too old."



That seems like a perfect place for some rant :D


Episode VII ironically goes to 7th place in my list despite the lack of any expectations. I know prequels quite often accumulate all SW fans hate, but they grew on me over time. Biggest contributing factors to the suckage are... worst, most pathetic villian, a Darth Vader wanabee beaten by an average stormtrooper (at least he shouldn't take his mask off, that'd have added to the character since the actor lacks any charisma on his own), the girl who has started to use the force effortlessly and right off the bat with no prior training (maybe it will be explained later, like she's Luke's daughter, so far it looks far fatched), that stormtrooper character that lacks motivation for everything he's doing (seriously why the betrayal? weren't they supposed to be trained and brought to loyalty since they are infants?) etc. Overall the movie is sticking to the template of the first one replacing vacant places with new characters and entities, here's your new Luke, new Han Solo, new Empire and Republic. Any movement within the SW universe? On the bright side, all the budget  is here, on the screen, the picture is bright and colorful, aesthetics faithful to the originals, a lot of cameos and a lot of fan service. That's basically what it is, a fan service. The movie is not bad, it is serviceable.

 

UPD: Upon reading the OP after posting (as usual), it apepars my impresssions repeat those expressed in the amp316 post... sometimes even wordings are the same.



If he doesn't want to be found, why does Luke leave a map?

Who found Anakin / Luke's lightsaber and where did they find it?

How did Rey know who the last three people that stole the Millenium Falcon were, but not not who Han Solo was?

How did Rey know more about fixing the Falcon than Han? It made Han look like he was a bumbling idiot in the OT,

Why didn't Han get a more heroic death?

Why am I the only one who sees the similarites between Kylo Ren and Dark Helmet?

How did Poe Dameron live?

Why are people using Harry Potter to try to explain Star Wars?



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amp316 said:
If he doesn't want to be found, why does Luke leave a map?

Who found Anakin / Luke's lightsaber and where did they find it?

How did Rey know who the last three people that stole the Millenium Falcon were, but not not who Han Solo was?

How did Rey know more about fixing the Falcon than Han? It made Han look like he was a bumbling idiot in the OT,

Why didn't Han get a more heroic death?

Why am I the only one who sees the similarites between Kylo Ren and Dark Helmet?

How did Poe Dameron live?

Why are people using Harry Potter to try to explain Star Wars?

 

Luke didn't leave that map. The Empire already had part of it during the original movies, and he wasn't in exile at that point, was he..

That map leads to the first Jedi temple. Not to Luke.