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Forums - Nintendo - Digital Foundry vs FAST Racing Neo

Lauster on 15 December 2015

Congrats to Shin'en, it's a hell of a job, awesome !

Zekkyou said:
   Looking at what WipEout HD did on the PS3, and what FRN is doing on the WiiU, i really hope we see a new WipEout entry on the PS4 at some point. Would be interesting to see what kind of stuff they could do.  

 Yeah WipeOut HD / Fury was marvelous too, and already at 1080p 60fps.

I would like to see another Rollcage =)





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DonFerrari on 15 December 2015
Vena said:
fatslob-:O said:
Very technically impressive for the WII U ...

From a technical impression perspective, its impressive irregardless of console or system. They built an astounding engine within the confines of the machine's parameters, whatever machine they were to build it on would still leave that engine/game as being impressive (unless it was built on some alien space technology).

Its an impressive game for the WiiU amongst WiiU games from a graphical perspective (and from the fact that its made by five people).

They went hard into the lower level code of the WiiU for their rendering solutions, to the point where I wouldn't be surprised if they went into machine coding for parts of this performance. They've definitely gone beyond the top level dev API tools, which is impressive in its own right (and likely means they were given a go-ahead to do such from up on high), and isn't something many developers can or even know how to do to such a level. In fact, nowadays, everything is built on such a high level abstraction layers for ease of porting that I'd wonder how many people even can reliable do this level of under the hood work.

There aren't many developers in the gaming industry that go to or know this level of programming, and they easily rival some of the best in EPD/EAD (or MonolithSoft) when it comes to breaking a system open for the last oodles of power.

I know Naughty Dog do low level, close to the metal programming, and their ICE team help other Sony devs whenever necessary.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari on 15 December 2015
Goodnightmoon said:

There is an important update from Digital Foundry, the game is not 640x720p

UPDATE 14/12/15 5:20pm: After spending more time with the game, we wanted to clarify the issue of rendering resolution in Fast Racing Neo. While results as low as 640x720 are possible, and evident in many of our examples, it doesn't tell the whole story. The game operates at 1280x720 with a re-projection technique not completely unlike that of Killzone Shadow Fall's multiplayer mode.

Here, though, the re-projection technique is most effective on edges composed against areas with proper depth buffer information. As the skybox used in the game lacks any z-buffer entries, polygon edges contrasted against this area of the screen cannot be effectively reconstructed. It is this type of scenario that produces lower resolution results evident in some of the screen captures.

Basically, the apparent resolution of an edge depends on where it falls within the image. Edges of geometry placed against other objects within the world can actually appear to operate with a width of 1280. Yet, when contrasted against the skybox, these edges lose information and instead appear to operate with half the pixels. The end result is sharper image quality than 640x720 could allow but not quite as clean as a native 1280x720 either. It's good middle ground for the game that makes the smooth frame-rate possible.

So many cry raging on the solution used for Killzone, but here it helped in a way to improve a WiiU game... very good thing in the end right?

Zekkyou said:
Outside of the rather lackluster image quality (i could cut my hand on some of those jaggies :p), FRN looks genuinely exceptional for a WiiU game. Especially considering the size of the team that made it. A 1080p version really wouldn't look out of place on either the PS4 or X1.

Looking at what WipEout HD did on the PS3, and what FRN is doing on the WiiU, i really hope we see a new WipEout entry on the PS4 at some point. Would be interesting to see what kind of stuff they could do.

Always good to have more racers.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Goodnightmoon on 15 December 2015
DonFerrari said:
Goodnightmoon said:

There is an important update from Digital Foundry, the game is not 640x720p

UPDATE 14/12/15 5:20pm: After spending more time with the game, we wanted to clarify the issue of rendering resolution in Fast Racing Neo. While results as low as 640x720 are possible, and evident in many of our examples, it doesn't tell the whole story. The game operates at 1280x720 with a re-projection technique not completely unlike that of Killzone Shadow Fall's multiplayer mode.

Here, though, the re-projection technique is most effective on edges composed against areas with proper depth buffer information. As the skybox used in the game lacks any z-buffer entries, polygon edges contrasted against this area of the screen cannot be effectively reconstructed. It is this type of scenario that produces lower resolution results evident in some of the screen captures.

Basically, the apparent resolution of an edge depends on where it falls within the image. Edges of geometry placed against other objects within the world can actually appear to operate with a width of 1280. Yet, when contrasted against the skybox, these edges lose information and instead appear to operate with half the pixels. The end result is sharper image quality than 640x720 could allow but not quite as clean as a native 1280x720 either. It's good middle ground for the game that makes the smooth frame-rate possible.

So many cry raging on the solution used for Killzone, but here it helped in a way to improve a WiiU game... very good thing in the end right?

I always agree with any kind of trade off that is used to mantain a good performance. 



DonFerrari on 15 December 2015
Goodnightmoon said:
DonFerrari said:
Goodnightmoon said:

There is an important update from Digital Foundry, the game is not 640x720p

UPDATE 14/12/15 5:20pm: After spending more time with the game, we wanted to clarify the issue of rendering resolution in Fast Racing Neo. While results as low as 640x720 are possible, and evident in many of our examples, it doesn't tell the whole story. The game operates at 1280x720 with a re-projection technique not completely unlike that of Killzone Shadow Fall's multiplayer mode.

Here, though, the re-projection technique is most effective on edges composed against areas with proper depth buffer information. As the skybox used in the game lacks any z-buffer entries, polygon edges contrasted against this area of the screen cannot be effectively reconstructed. It is this type of scenario that produces lower resolution results evident in some of the screen captures.

Basically, the apparent resolution of an edge depends on where it falls within the image. Edges of geometry placed against other objects within the world can actually appear to operate with a width of 1280. Yet, when contrasted against the skybox, these edges lose information and instead appear to operate with half the pixels. The end result is sharper image quality than 640x720 could allow but not quite as clean as a native 1280x720 either. It's good middle ground for the game that makes the smooth frame-rate possible.

So many cry raging on the solution used for Killzone, but here it helped in a way to improve a WiiU game... very good thing in the end right?

I always agree with any kind of trade off that is used to mantain a good performance. 

Everyone have prefferences, if the trade offs for that genre adhere with our expectations there is no point in complaining about what wasn't achieved if they weren't important for our needs =]

Well at least most Nintendo followers seem to value 60fps stable as the most important and Nintendo delivers it and stil achieve pleasant visuals.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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curl-6 on 15 December 2015
Goodnightmoon said:
DonFerrari said:
Goodnightmoon said:

There is an important update from Digital Foundry, the game is not 640x720p

UPDATE 14/12/15 5:20pm: After spending more time with the game, we wanted to clarify the issue of rendering resolution in Fast Racing Neo. While results as low as 640x720 are possible, and evident in many of our examples, it doesn't tell the whole story. The game operates at 1280x720 with a re-projection technique not completely unlike that of Killzone Shadow Fall's multiplayer mode.

Here, though, the re-projection technique is most effective on edges composed against areas with proper depth buffer information. As the skybox used in the game lacks any z-buffer entries, polygon edges contrasted against this area of the screen cannot be effectively reconstructed. It is this type of scenario that produces lower resolution results evident in some of the screen captures.

Basically, the apparent resolution of an edge depends on where it falls within the image. Edges of geometry placed against other objects within the world can actually appear to operate with a width of 1280. Yet, when contrasted against the skybox, these edges lose information and instead appear to operate with half the pixels. The end result is sharper image quality than 640x720 could allow but not quite as clean as a native 1280x720 either. It's good middle ground for the game that makes the smooth frame-rate possible.

So many cry raging on the solution used for Killzone, but here it helped in a way to improve a WiiU game... very good thing in the end right?

I always agree with any kind of trade off that is used to mantain a good performance. 

Same here. For a racing game, especially one that moves this Fast (Badum tssss) 60fps is paramount in my opinion.

Whether it be Nintendo, 343i, Naughty Dog, or Shin'en, I'm always happy to see a dev prioritize performance over eye candy. I mean, I like eye candy as much the next guy, but I'd prefer it not come at the expense of the framerate.



curl-6 on 19 December 2015
Goodnightmoon said:

There is an important update from Digital Foundry, the game is not 640x720p

UPDATE 14/12/15 5:20pm: After spending more time with the game, we wanted to clarify the issue of rendering resolution in Fast Racing Neo. While results as low as 640x720 are possible, and evident in many of our examples, it doesn't tell the whole story. The game operates at 1280x720 with a re-projection technique not completely unlike that of Killzone Shadow Fall's multiplayer mode.

Here, though, the re-projection technique is most effective on edges composed against areas with proper depth buffer information. As the skybox used in the game lacks any z-buffer entries, polygon edges contrasted against this area of the screen cannot be effectively reconstructed. It is this type of scenario that produces lower resolution results evident in some of the screen captures.

Basically, the apparent resolution of an edge depends on where it falls within the image. Edges of geometry placed against other objects within the world can actually appear to operate with a width of 1280. Yet, when contrasted against the skybox, these edges lose information and instead appear to operate with half the pixels. The end result is sharper image quality than 640x720 could allow but not quite as clean as a native 1280x720 either. It's good middle ground for the game that makes the smooth frame-rate possible.

Some further clarification from the devs themselves: