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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Cyberpunk 2077 is 'even more ambitious than we planned' - CD Projekt Red

DakonBlackblade on 07 December 2015
HoloDust said:
DakonBlackblade said:
HoloDust said:
Hopefully there won't be heavily defined main character like Geralt, I prefer to see more of a 'create your own hero' approach to give it more choices and replayability.

Why ? So that the character may have no expression, be totaly souless and the story can be super badly written like in Fallout 4 and everybody will say its OK cause they got to "chose theyre own story" ? If its not a defined character go the Shepard/Inquisitor route, where the character was defined but you could change its apearence, otherwise its a recipe to deliver terrible storylines and uninteresing main characters.

You have apparently never played some of the great c/W/RPGs that have 'create your own hero' approach AND great (or at least good) stories on top of it - like Fallout 1/2, Gothic 1/2, Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines, KOTOR 1/2...even in Planescape: Torment, what is generally considered the best written c/W/RPG (if not RPG, period) of all times it's up to you to shape The Nameless One as you see fit.

Anyway, I see you're a bit younger, so you must've missed some of those games and you're automatically connecting 'create your own hero' with Bethesda level of bad...which is bad, there's no argument there, they are probabaly the worst in industry in last 2 decades when it comes to stories and characters.

But there are other devs that do it right, and that's what I would like to see from 2077 (and it seems, what we'll get), game that gives you more options than what Witcher offered.

Im not "a bit younger", Im 27 so Ive been around ever since videogames were in its infancy, Ive played almost all of those games you listed with the excepetion of Fallout 1/2 and Gothic 2, and on those games, the story is indead great but the weakest part is your silent, expressionless, souless main character, that could be much better and more usefull to the story if he had a pre-set structure like Shepard did on ME. You can make Shepard look and have the skills you want, even change his/hers first name, but hell always have a "skeleton" there that ties him to the story and gives him a soul, on KOTOR this kinda happens as well, there is character development in there for your main character, but itd stil be better if you werent just a nameless Jedi. But them again maybe the fact I just recently finished Fallout 4 and have it fresh in my mind is playing a part here, as that game has one of the worst written storylines ever.



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Chazore on 07 December 2015
DakonBlackblade said:

I play tabletop all the time, in fact I was playing D&D 5th ed today morning with my long time group. The difference is, tabletop is organic, it doesnt have a set structure the DM makes the adventure and the story but he adapts it to how the players react and construct theyre characters. If I say I play a cleric that has gone mad after being possessed by a demonic entity, and now hes paranoid and thinks everyoen is possessed, the DM might actualy put someone possessed in a village and Id try to convinve my group that that person was under demonic influence, and no one would believe me and thered be lots of roleplay in the following interactions this storyline would provide.

A videogame, on the other hand, doesnt think, it has a set structure, and it also doesnt depend on your imagination, it needs to animate the character, when the character doesnt have a name, a face nor expressions he also doesnt have a purpose on the set world the game provides you, I could make my paranoid cleric backstory but Id never meet anything that would play on that backstory nor would my character even emote differently if he were to find a demon.

Fallout (3 and 4, never played 1 and 2 to say anythign) or Elder Scrolls (Oblivion and Skyrim, also never played the others) are agmes about visiting random places and killing stuf, ppl try to say theyre games were you make your own story but you dont, theres a set structure everyone follows and its not changeable, some sidequests you may do or not and a very poorly written and shallow main story. Mass Effect, Drgaon Age and Witcher on the other hand offer deep imersive experiences, even DA 2 wich is just lower quality than the others ofer an imersive story, cause they integrate you, the player, to the setting, other than offering you a souless main character that dont have much expression and is just a random dude on the world. You can shape your character to an extent, buts always withim the boundarys of the game, therefore if the character dont have a preset "skeleton" it feels like he isnt interacting with the world.

Just to conclude, its exactly because I play tabletop that I dont liek the completly no preset character creation type of game, I know the character Im creating will still be limited by the game and wont have a real purpose because the devs didnt give him one, I know how true character creation and development works from playing tabletop, devs cant fool me. Imagine how Final Fnatasy VII would feel if Cloud were a mute dude with no name, blank expressions and no backstory. 

The thing about Fallout 1-2 and even the later ones (besides 4 since things have changed now) and the ES series is that you pretty much have to make up your character as you go along, we all know you come out of a vault or that you woke up some place (in ES games) but the changes from there are usually on your own accord. To you they can feel or appear like a skeleton but to others they can appear like their own designed character sicne they designed parts ot eh body, face, attributes etc. With Mass Effect you more or less come with a predefined character in the sense that it is already given a personality and a voice, not all of which is liked by all but some since doing it that way does eliminate some personal character building as parts of it if not most are done for you, all that's left with that type is to make choices, choices of which you make in games like Fallout/ES/Witcher a lot of the time and likely with CP2077.



Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"

HoloDust on 07 December 2015
DakonBlackblade said:
HoloDust said:
DakonBlackblade said:
HoloDust said:
Hopefully there won't be heavily defined main character like Geralt, I prefer to see more of a 'create your own hero' approach to give it more choices and replayability.

Why ? So that the character may have no expression, be totaly souless and the story can be super badly written like in Fallout 4 and everybody will say its OK cause they got to "chose theyre own story" ? If its not a defined character go the Shepard/Inquisitor route, where the character was defined but you could change its apearence, otherwise its a recipe to deliver terrible storylines and uninteresing main characters.

You have apparently never played some of the great c/W/RPGs that have 'create your own hero' approach AND great (or at least good) stories on top of it - like Fallout 1/2, Gothic 1/2, Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines, KOTOR 1/2...even in Planescape: Torment, what is generally considered the best written c/W/RPG (if not RPG, period) of all times it's up to you to shape The Nameless One as you see fit.

Anyway, I see you're a bit younger, so you must've missed some of those games and you're automatically connecting 'create your own hero' with Bethesda level of bad...which is bad, there's no argument there, they are probabaly the worst in industry in last 2 decades when it comes to stories and characters.

But there are other devs that do it right, and that's what I would like to see from 2077 (and it seems, what we'll get), game that gives you more options than what Witcher offered.

Im not "a bit younger", Im 27 so Ive been around ever since videogames were in its infancy, Ive played almost all of those games you listed with the excepetion of Fallout 1/2 and Gothic 2, and on those games, the story is indead great but the weakest part is your silent, expressionless, souless main character, that could be much better and more usefull to the story if he had a pre-set structure like Shepard did on ME. You can make Shepard look and have the skills you want, even change his/hers first name, but hell always have a "skeleton" there that ties him to the story and gives him a soul, on KOTOR this kinda happens as well, there is character development in there for your main character, but itd stil be better if you werent just a nameless Jedi.


Well, given that I'm in mid 40s, you do undestand how 27 is "a bit younger"...no hard feelings meant, just that a lot of folks these days who seem to play Bethesda games never actually played anything else when it comes to WRPGs, and you specifically, for some reason, compared what I've said about "create your own hero" with their games...which is kinda funny, given how often I bash them, and specially FO3/4 for ruining Fallout.

Anyway, I have no problem in fairly linear RPGs with more defined main characters...actually, I would even prefer that Witcher 3 was more linear like W2, the way it turned out in the end seemed like open-world was slapped on, unlike IPs like Gothic where good mixture of story and exploration works exactly because you are a "Nameless Hero"...actually, I'd say, for all good RPGs that have lot of potential in playing your character very differently and exploring world, while having good stories, this is almost a prerequisite of a sort, since hard fixing character is just limiting options.

But, in the end it comes to personal preference, I'd almost always take more variety and replayability in RPG over pre-defined characters, especially when it comes to open-world RPGs...as for 2077, after digging a bit, it seems I don't have to worry much, though the info is bit old, it looks like we'll have much more freedom when it comes to main character than in Witcher.



DakonBlackblade on 07 December 2015
HoloDust said:

Well, given that I'm in mid 40s, you do undestand how 27 is "a bit younger"...no hard feelings meant, just that a lot of folks these days who seem to play Bethesda games never actually played anything else when it comes to WRPGs, and you specifically, for some reason, compared what I've said about "create your own hero" with their games...which is kinda funny, given how often I bash them, and specially FO3/4 for ruining Fallout.

Anyway, I have no problem in fairly linear RPGs with more defined main characters...actually, I would even prefer that Witcher 3 was more linear like W2, the way it turned out in the end seemed like open-world was slapped on, unlike IPs like Gothic where good mixture of story and exploration works exactly because you are a "Nameless Hero"...actually, I'd say, for all good RPGs that have lot of potential in playing your character very differently and exploring world, while having good stories, this is almost a prerequisite of a sort, since hard fixing character is just limiting options.

But, in the end it comes to personal preference, I'd almost always take more variety and replayability in RPG over pre-defined characters, especially when it comes to open-world RPGs...as for 2077, after digging a bit, it seems I don't have to worry much, though the info is bit old, it looks like we'll have much more freedom when it comes to main character than in Witcher.

Its cool, I tough you were under the impression I wasnt around on the first generations of videogames (fun fact my father bought an Atari when I was born, he convinced my mother saying it was "for the baby", it was obviously for himself but hey I dont complain I got to grow up around videogames) but indead I am a bit younger than you. About the bolded part, its probably because I recently finished Fallout 4 and the horribly written story is still sticking like a sore thumb in my mind.

I get what you are saying, but I think Witcher 3, albeit very restrictive on the character part , integrated its open world well to the story, the sidestorys and interactions that happen along the way, and the hiden treasures and snipets of lore hiden troughout the world made the experience feel very imersive to me. Personaly I prefer something in the midle of what Witcher 3 did and what Gothic does when it comes to character creation, the best example I can find for the format I think works the best in a videogame is realy Mass Effect and Dragon Age, you have libertys but the character has enought pre-set to integrate it properly to the world and story being presented.

I'll play Cyberpunk for sure regardless of what direction they go, and Im not too concerned with the story on a CDPR game, theyre masters at that department, I trust these Polish wizards to deliver us a great game theyve proven themselves more than enought already.



Mummelmann on 07 December 2015

I really believe in these guys, this could turn out to be a real gem!