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Forums - Nintendo - 2016 will be huge year for Nintendo!

Miyamotoo said:
potato_hamster said:
Miyamotoo said:
potato_hamster said:
Miyamotoo said:
potato_hamster said:
 


Care to explain to me how if Nintendo's next home and handheld consoles

a) share a similar architecture making porting games from one console to the other easier
b) shares a similar operating system that makes inter-console multiplayer easier to implement
c) are marketed as differerent platforms, with different games in different packaging.


That all the statements you listed above by Nintendo will not be technically true? Nintendo is giving you an inch and you're assuming a mile.

And again look at the patents of previous consoles. Just look at the patents Nintendo put out two years before the Wii U. I bet you'd be shocked how many of them have absolutely nothing to do with what the Wii U became even if they looked like really cool features that the Wii U totally should feature based on the things Nintendo said about it leading up to its announcement. Ohh well. That's irrelevant I guess.

I really don't understand what you trying to say, but:

a) Yes, NX home and handheld will have same or very similar architecture. Not just because porting, I think they will develop one game in same time for handheld and home console.

b) Not similar, same OS for NX console and handheld, same like multiply different devices are having iOS or Apple OS and same like they sharing same apps and games.

c) No, it will not be marketed like different platforms, it will probably be marketing like one platform with different devices that have different capabilities but that are playing same games.

My assumings are based on things Nintendo gave us or based on rumorus about NX.

Again, huge difference from previous Nintendo patents before Wii U, is that this patents are basically what Nintendo talked about new consoles and platforms.

Ohh really? So all iPad games are on the iPhone and vice versa? Ohh right. No they're not. Developers actually have to put extra, significant amounts of work in to make their game compatible on both the iPad and iPhone. So there's that. The NX could emulate the iOS marketplace almost exactly and they could still have seperate games for seperate devices in seperate packages and not be compatible with one another. It happens on iOS devices all the time.

Here's the thing you keep failing to understand. You quite literally do not know what the NX will be. You do not. You have a couple vague sentences from marketers and you're twisting that into an extact vision of what the platform is and how it will operate. You do not know that. You have absolutely no idea, and yet here you are confident you know exactly what it will be. You acting like patents are an indicator of the direction a company is heading, and it's totally different from the WIi U and NX in terms of how their patents relate to real-world products when you literally have zero tangible evidence of what the NX will be. The patents Nitendo has made of late could be less relevant to the NX as the patents Nintendo made in the year or two before the Wii U was released and you have absolutely no way to prove that argument is correct at this time.

You have no idea what the NX will be. There is no reason for you to be as confident as you are. None.

Yes, 90% of same games and apps are working on iPad and on iPhone. Devolpers need to put extra work to make game compabitible with iPad and iPhone, but that extra work is much smaller than devolping for intance same game for iPhone and Samsung Android tablet, that are having different OS and and architecture, and that's a whole point.

Again, I know what Nintendo said they planing and I know Nintendo patents that are basically same thing Nintendo already mentioned and I know about rumours, so my thinking is based on those informations. Of Course nothing is certain until the Nintendo revil NX, but I think there are good chances that NX will be what I think it will be.

So yes, I have very clear idea what NX will be, and believe me, I am not only one with that same idea.

I'd bet you'd be pretty shocked how many games for the iPad aren't available on the iPhone. it's a lot less than 90% of whats made for iPad. There are entire companies that make software and apps exclusively for iPad and other tablets because they don't think they can offer the same experience on as small screen real estate as the iPhone. Developers do need to put in extra work to make one work well on the other and it is not trivial. While it is easier to port games from iPhone to iPad than it is to port games from iPhone to Android it is not significantly easier. And that's my point entirely. The iPad and iPhone have two similar but distinctly seperate software market places. Apple has never and would never put out anything that says you can play all your iPad games on your iPhone, like you're saying Nintendo will do. iPad games are iPad games. iPhone games are iPhone games. The two are not cross-compatible. The two are very similar, but not the same.

So going forward, let's assume the architecture is remarkably similar (it probably will be). Let's say it's 50% easier to port a NX home game to NX portable and vice versa than it was to port a Wii U game to the 3DS (and that's probably being generous-  but let's say that's what Nintendo meant when they talked about addressing software droughts). Those are two completely different cames for two different devices that are not compatible with another. They would have to have distinct packaging in stores. Games for both would be sold side-by-side as similar but seperate games. It would not be one game for two platforms unless Nintendo both mandates that third party developers must put in the extra work to support both, sell both games under one package (similar to Sony's cross-buy service they did with PS3 and PSV games). However what Nintendo would be doing is essentially telling developers that they have to put in more work for less potential profit (A million seller on the NX vs a million seller on the PS4 would cost more to make and it would make the third parties less money they they would if users were forced to buy two copies for two Nintendo platforms). That's a hard sell for third parties, because frankly it would be a lot easier for them to just churn out games for the PS4 and X1 which will more than likely have an established user base of 70+ million before the NX comes out. Why bother spending more effort on a console that has zero indication it will sell very well, whenWithout third parties, the NX is doomed before it even gets off the ground.

Again, you think you knoiw what Nintendo is planning, and you think the patents are related. You do not know that, and you've admitted as much. So maybe you should stop acting as if your assumptions are factual and stop saying things like "Nintendo will", and start saying things like "I believe Nintendo will". It is 100% irrelevant if more than one of you people are taking what Nitnendo has said and totally blown it out of proportion to elevate anything Nintendo says, as a defintive "this is what Nintendo's next console will be" or some other nonsense. It tends to be a common trend among you and people of similar interests on this site.



No I wouldn't be shocked at all, huge majority of same games and apps can be used on iPhone and iPad or an Android phone and Android tablet. You said itself that is a easier, and that's my point. For Nintendo (and for 3rd party) for instance will be much easier to make one Mario Kart that will work on NX home and NX handheld, than make basicly difrent Mario Kart games for 3DS and seperate Mario Kart for Wii U like they were doing this gen and all previous generations.

Again, yes, I think I know what Nintendo is planning and that some of patents are related with those plans, but you cant know if I am wrong or not, so maybe you need stop saying that I don't know anything because you can't prove that I am wrong.


Define "much easier". Because there's a different between "we pretty much just have to recompile it to use different assets, it's that easy" and "we have to re-do 70% of the game as opposed to 85% of the game in order to get it to work properly". One takes minimal effort, and the other while technically easier, doesn't really add much incentive to do so. So which is it? Ohh right. You have no idea, just that it'll probably be easier than porting a Wii U game to the 3DS. You think. Brilliant.

On top of that, there's no technical reason why Nintendo couldn't have done this in the past. It is easier to port Mario Kart 7 from the 3DS to the Wii U then it is to make an entirely new Mario Kart for the Wii U. Yet. that's what Nintendo did in Mario Kart 8. Why didn't Nintendo port Mario Kart 7 to the Wii U instead of making Mario Kart 8? Because more people would buy copies of a brand new mario kart rather than pick up another copy of a game they already have for their 3DS. It was a move to increase sales. Instead of selling one copy to its die hard Mario Kart fans, it could sell two.

Yet here you are saying Nintendo is going to abandon this philosophy all together because porting is easier than ever before, and definitely easier than making a completely new game? Well, I hate to break it to you, but It was always easier. Making the architecture similar makes porting games easier for sure, but it was always easier to port a game than start from scratch, so why is this suddenly going to lead to a dramatic increase in first party and third party titles? By forcing third parties to put in the extra effort to support two platforms instead of one, you might cause them to reject developing for the platform altogether. If you don't do that, then how is the game marketplace any different than the one for the Wii U and 3DS?

All that aside, you really need to stop with the fallacies. Last post you used an "appeal to the people fallacy" to argue that because more than one of you believe that this is what Nintendo is doing is somehow makes your claim more valid.  Now you're using an "appeal to ignorance" fallacy by arguing that I can't prove you wrong so there's validity to your claims.  Guess what? The onus is on you to prove your claims are true, not on me to prove your claims are false. Lastly, you should probably look up what the word "know" means because "think" and "know" mean two completely different things, and you're using them interchangably.



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potato_hamster said:
Miyamotoo said:


No I wouldn't be shocked at all, huge majority of same games and apps can be used on iPhone and iPad or an Android phone and Android tablet. You said itself that is a easier, and that's my point. For Nintendo (and for 3rd party) for instance will be much easier to make one Mario Kart that will work on NX home and NX handheld, than make basicly difrent Mario Kart games for 3DS and seperate Mario Kart for Wii U like they were doing this gen and all previous generations.

Again, yes, I think I know what Nintendo is planning and that some of patents are related with those plans, but you cant know if I am wrong or not, so maybe you need stop saying that I don't know anything because you can't prove that I am wrong.


Define "much easier". Because there's a different between "we pretty much just have to recompile it to use different assets, it's that easy" and "we have to re-do 70% of the game as opposed to 85% of the game in order to get it to work properly". One takes minimal effort, and the other while technically easier, doesn't really add much incentive to do so. So which is it? Ohh right. You have no idea, just that it'll probably be easier than porting a Wii U game to the 3DS. You think. Brilliant.

On top of that, there's no technical reason why Nintendo couldn't have done this in the past. It is easier to port Mario Kart 7 from the 3DS to the Wii U then it is to make an entirely new Mario Kart for the Wii U. Yet. that's what Nintendo did in Mario Kart 8. Why didn't Nintendo port Mario Kart 7 to the Wii U instead of making Mario Kart 8? Because more people would buy copies of a brand new mario kart rather than pick up another copy of a game they already have for their 3DS. It was a move to increase sales. Instead of selling one copy to its die hard Mario Kart fans, it could sell two.

Yet here you are saying Nintendo is going to abandon this philosophy all together because porting is easier than ever before, and definitely easier than making a completely new game? Well, I hate to break it to you, but It was always easier. Making the architecture similar makes porting games easier for sure, but it was always easier to port a game than start from scratch, so why is this suddenly going to lead to a dramatic increase in first party and third party titles? By forcing third parties to put in the extra effort to support two platforms instead of one, you might cause them to reject developing for the platform altogether. If you don't do that, then how is the game marketplace any different than the one for the Wii U and 3DS?

All that aside, you really need to stop with the fallacies. Last post you used an "appeal to the people fallacy" to argue that because more than one of you believe that this is what Nintendo is doing is somehow makes your claim more valid.  Now you're using an "appeal to ignorance" fallacy by arguing that I can't prove you wrong so there's validity to your claims.  Guess what? The onus is on you to prove your claims are true, not on me to prove your claims are false. Lastly, you should probably look up what the word "know" means because "think" and "know" mean two completely different things, and you're using them interchangably.

About your MK7 question:

"For example, currently it requires a huge amount of effort to port Wii software to Nintendo 3DS because not only their resolutions but also the methods of software development are entirely different. The same thing happens when we try to port Nintendo 3DS software to Wii U. If the transition of software from platform to platform can be made simpler, this will help solve the problem of game shortages in the launch periods of new platforms. Home consoles and handheld devices will no longer be completely different, and they will become like brothers in a family of systems."

 

Again, my opinion is based on all things NIntendo said they planning to do and patents that are related to those patents. You think my opinion is wrong and thats ok, we will see in few months is that true.



Miyamotoo said:
potato_hamster said:
Miyamotoo said:


No I wouldn't be shocked at all, huge majority of same games and apps can be used on iPhone and iPad or an Android phone and Android tablet. You said itself that is a easier, and that's my point. For Nintendo (and for 3rd party) for instance will be much easier to make one Mario Kart that will work on NX home and NX handheld, than make basicly difrent Mario Kart games for 3DS and seperate Mario Kart for Wii U like they were doing this gen and all previous generations.

Again, yes, I think I know what Nintendo is planning and that some of patents are related with those plans, but you cant know if I am wrong or not, so maybe you need stop saying that I don't know anything because you can't prove that I am wrong.


Define "much easier". Because there's a different between "we pretty much just have to recompile it to use different assets, it's that easy" and "we have to re-do 70% of the game as opposed to 85% of the game in order to get it to work properly". One takes minimal effort, and the other while technically easier, doesn't really add much incentive to do so. So which is it? Ohh right. You have no idea, just that it'll probably be easier than porting a Wii U game to the 3DS. You think. Brilliant.

On top of that, there's no technical reason why Nintendo couldn't have done this in the past. It is easier to port Mario Kart 7 from the 3DS to the Wii U then it is to make an entirely new Mario Kart for the Wii U. Yet. that's what Nintendo did in Mario Kart 8. Why didn't Nintendo port Mario Kart 7 to the Wii U instead of making Mario Kart 8? Because more people would buy copies of a brand new mario kart rather than pick up another copy of a game they already have for their 3DS. It was a move to increase sales. Instead of selling one copy to its die hard Mario Kart fans, it could sell two.

Yet here you are saying Nintendo is going to abandon this philosophy all together because porting is easier than ever before, and definitely easier than making a completely new game? Well, I hate to break it to you, but It was always easier. Making the architecture similar makes porting games easier for sure, but it was always easier to port a game than start from scratch, so why is this suddenly going to lead to a dramatic increase in first party and third party titles? By forcing third parties to put in the extra effort to support two platforms instead of one, you might cause them to reject developing for the platform altogether. If you don't do that, then how is the game marketplace any different than the one for the Wii U and 3DS?

All that aside, you really need to stop with the fallacies. Last post you used an "appeal to the people fallacy" to argue that because more than one of you believe that this is what Nintendo is doing is somehow makes your claim more valid.  Now you're using an "appeal to ignorance" fallacy by arguing that I can't prove you wrong so there's validity to your claims.  Guess what? The onus is on you to prove your claims are true, not on me to prove your claims are false. Lastly, you should probably look up what the word "know" means because "think" and "know" mean two completely different things, and you're using them interchangably.

About your MK7 question:

"For example, currently it requires a huge amount of effort to port Wii software to Nintendo 3DS because not only their resolutions but also the methods of software development are entirely different. The same thing happens when we try to port Nintendo 3DS software to Wii U. If the transition of software from platform to platform can be made simpler, this will help solve the problem of game shortages in the launch periods of new platforms. Home consoles and handheld devices will no longer be completely different, and they will become like brothers in a family of systems."

 

Again, my opinion is based on all things NIntendo said they planning to do and patents that are related to those patents. You think my opinion is wrong and thats ok, we will see in few months is that true.

No matter how difficult it is, It's an objective fact that it is simpler to port a game from 3DS to Wii U than it is to make a Wii U game from scratch. Even if you can't reuse most of the game and assets, the fact that you don't need to plan out the characters or tracks or menu or game modes means that a substantial part of the work is already done. It would have been easier to port MK7 to the Wii U than it was to make MK8. That's a fact.

You're failing to understand. "Simpler" is a pretty vague term. "Simpler" could make it 5% less work or 95% less work. 5% less work wouldn't make any bit of a difference in getting more games on the platform. 95% less work is substantial. How much simpler will Nintendo make it? We have no idea. The phrase is in of itself totally meaningless, and marketing speak that at the end of the day could result in a change that may have little impact on improving the difficulty of porting an NX home game to the NX portable from what it is to port a Wii U game to the 3DS.

To add to this as an example  based on my experience, you have to re-do 15-20% of the work to port a PS4 game to the X1 or vice versa. This is down from about 25-30% of things that had to be re-done to port a PS3 game to Xbox 360 or vice versa. So by doing nothing but choosing similar architectures, Sony and MS have made it "simpler" to port their games to each other's platform by doing nothing but making their consoles the way they saw fit. They unsurprisingly have not used this fact in marketing, but it remains true. Have you seen a flood of multi-platform games as a result of this, even though it's simpler to port a game between both? Absolutely not. WHy not? It's simpler, afterall! It's because it's still months of manhours of additional work, and that's hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars in additional costs for a AAA level game, and that might not be worth it for company in charge of developing it. Now any game company that may be interested in making an NX game might have to spend just as much time making an NX game as they will making a multiplatform PS4 and X1 game, and that is a very hard sell.

Let's be clear. I don't think your opinions are wrong, I'm saying there is no substantive basis for your opinion. Everything you're saying may be totally 100% correct, I don't know that, and neither do you. I'm simply saying you really have no grounds for the confidence you have in your predictions. There is simply not that much info available to be as confident as you are, and I'm simply pointing out the glaring holes that you're ignoring.



potato_hamster said:

No matter how difficult it is, It's an objective fact that it is simpler to port a game from 3DS to Wii U than it is to make a Wii U game from scratch. Even if you can't reuse most of the game and assets, the fact that you don't need to plan out the characters or tracks or menu or game modes means that a substantial part of the work is already done. It would have been easier to port MK7 to the Wii U than it was to make MK8. That's a fact.

You're failing to understand. "Simpler" is a pretty vague term. "Simpler" could make it 5% less work or 95% less work. 5% less work wouldn't make any bit of a difference in getting more games on the platform. 95% less work is substantial. How much simpler will Nintendo make it? We have no idea. The phrase is in of itself totally meaningless, and marketing speak that at the end of the day could result in a change that may have little impact on improving the difficulty of porting an NX home game to the NX portable from what it is to port a Wii U game to the 3DS.

To add to this as an example  based on my experience, you have to re-do 15-20% of the work to port a PS4 game to the X1 or vice versa. This is down from about 25-30% of things that had to be re-done to port a PS3 game to Xbox 360 or vice versa. So by doing nothing but choosing similar architectures, Sony and MS have made it "simpler" to port their games to each other's platform by doing nothing but making their consoles the way they saw fit. They unsurprisingly have not used this fact in marketing, but it remains true. Have you seen a flood of multi-platform games as a result of this, even though it's simpler to port a game between both? Absolutely not. WHy not? It's simpler, afterall! It's because it's still months of manhours of additional work, and that's hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars in additional costs for a AAA level game, and that might not be worth it for company in charge of developing it. Now any game company that may be interested in making an NX game might have to spend just as much time making an NX game as they will making a multiplatform PS4 and X1 game, and that is a very hard sell.

Let's be clear. I don't think your opinions are wrong, I'm saying there is no substantive basis for your opinion. Everything you're saying may be totally 100% correct, I don't know that, and neither do you. I'm simply saying you really have no grounds for the confidence you have in your predictions. There is simply not that much info available to be as confident as you are, and I'm simply pointing out the glaring holes that you're ignoring.

But Nintendo said why they hadn't done something like that before, and why they will do that only with next platform. They also said (and it very obvious) that they cant support any more in HD era two completely different platforms like before, and thats main reason why they are going for integration platform.

I dont know how many exactly simple, but definitely they will develop faster one MK game for NX handheld and NX home console than they developed separate MK games for 3DS and Wii U, and thats a whole point.

 

"may have little impact on improving the difficulty of porting an NX home game to the NX portable from what it is to port a Wii U game to the 3DS."

Dont think so, because Wii U and 3DS are completely different and they dont have nothing in common, but NX portable and home console will probably have same OS, same architecture and same way of developing, and that can make quite difference.

 

My opinion is based on things Nintendo said they planning to do with new platform.



Miyamotoo said:
potato_hamster said:
 

No matter how difficult it is, It's an objective fact that it is simpler to port a game from 3DS to Wii U than it is to make a Wii U game from scratch. Even if you can't reuse most of the game and assets, the fact that you don't need to plan out the characters or tracks or menu or game modes means that a substantial part of the work is already done. It would have been easier to port MK7 to the Wii U than it was to make MK8. That's a fact.

You're failing to understand. "Simpler" is a pretty vague term. "Simpler" could make it 5% less work or 95% less work. 5% less work wouldn't make any bit of a difference in getting more games on the platform. 95% less work is substantial. How much simpler will Nintendo make it? We have no idea. The phrase is in of itself totally meaningless, and marketing speak that at the end of the day could result in a change that may have little impact on improving the difficulty of porting an NX home game to the NX portable from what it is to port a Wii U game to the 3DS.

To add to this as an example  based on my experience, you have to re-do 15-20% of the work to port a PS4 game to the X1 or vice versa. This is down from about 25-30% of things that had to be re-done to port a PS3 game to Xbox 360 or vice versa. So by doing nothing but choosing similar architectures, Sony and MS have made it "simpler" to port their games to each other's platform by doing nothing but making their consoles the way they saw fit. They unsurprisingly have not used this fact in marketing, but it remains true. Have you seen a flood of multi-platform games as a result of this, even though it's simpler to port a game between both? Absolutely not. WHy not? It's simpler, afterall! It's because it's still months of manhours of additional work, and that's hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars in additional costs for a AAA level game, and that might not be worth it for company in charge of developing it. Now any game company that may be interested in making an NX game might have to spend just as much time making an NX game as they will making a multiplatform PS4 and X1 game, and that is a very hard sell.

Let's be clear. I don't think your opinions are wrong, I'm saying there is no substantive basis for your opinion. Everything you're saying may be totally 100% correct, I don't know that, and neither do you. I'm simply saying you really have no grounds for the confidence you have in your predictions. There is simply not that much info available to be as confident as you are, and I'm simply pointing out the glaring holes that you're ignoring.

But Nintendo said why they hadn't done something like that before, and why they will do that only with next platform. They also said (and it very obvious) that they cant support any more in HD era two completely different platforms like before, and thats main reason why they are going for integration platform.

I dont know how many exactly simple, but definitely they will develop faster one MK game for NX handheld and NX home console than they developed separate MK games for 3DS and Wii U, and thats a whole point.

 

"may have little impact on improving the difficulty of porting an NX home game to the NX portable from what it is to port a Wii U game to the 3DS."

Dont think so, because Wii U and 3DS are completely different and they dont have nothing in common, but NX portable and home console will probably have same OS, same architecture and same way of developing, and that can make quite difference.

 

My opinion is based on things Nintendo said they planning to do with new platform.


If that's Nintendo's reasoning why they made MK8 rather than porting MK7, then that's a load of crap.It flat out is. I mean Ni No Kuni got ported from 3DS to PS3, and those two devices couldn't be more different. It's easier to do a port than it is to start from scratch. It always has been that way, and it more than likely always will.  I was part of a team that ported a PS3 game to the Vita (and yes it was far easier than making the game from scratch. It allowed us to develop the game in about 3/4 the time we would have alloted had we made it from scratch). If that can be done, and Ni No Kuni can be done, Nintendo has no excuses. You're just buying the marketing speak as fact. There are no technical reasons why MK7 could not be ported to the Wii U. None. Period.

Will it be easier to make a NX portable game from an NX home game than it was to make a 3DS game from a Wii U game? More than likely. It's really not difficult to make it even slightly easier. Will it be easy? More than likely not. The Wii U and 3Ds could not be more different? Really? They have more in common than the PS4 and Vita, and those platforms are definitely not "completely different". Processor/graphics/memory architecture are only a few pieces of the puzzle, there are many more that are very similar. Both have two serpate screens to display info, both have a similar controller layout, with the same buttons in more or less the same places (especially with the new 3DS). Both have touch enabled controls at the same part of the controller. The Wii U and 3DS have a lot more in common than say the PS3 or PS4 and the Vita do (Vita has a touch screen and a rear touch pad, and is missing the second set of trigger buttons) yet there have been plenty of ports between those two devices. Did Sony make it easier to port PS4 games to the Vita when they released the PS4? Yes they did. Is it signifcantly easier? Not really.

They said they're going for a more integrated platform, not a completely integrated one. Those are two different things. The PS4 and Vita are more integrated than the PS3 and PSP. That's another fact. In fact, one could quite easily argue that the PS4 and Vita are "brothers in a family of systems" since that is also equally as vague. The words "more integrated" are pretty vague are they not? So for all you know Nintendo is going for a more incremental change rather than the vast sweeping one you're so confident in. What then?



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So much talk and wishful thinking yet simple facts are being purposefully omitted to let a dream of nx success live.

PS4 showed the world what this industry wants and what it does not. Any sort of hybrid hand held gimmick console will be a massive failure with anyone who's not a nintnedo fan already. Now this maybe could work in Japan but rest of the world it will get spanked by the PS4. No chance in hell are the current console fans buying this. Its just wiiU hope 2.0.

The more out there it is the less 3rd party support it will get, either way it getting mediocre support so its a dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. They don't want another platform to support, they hated the idea of 4 consoles in the 6th gen and they killed the DC. Nintendo is the lame duck out, PS is to powerful a brand MS to rich to avoid and PC to big.

The former Ninty hand held sales will not transfer over to the NX. Seen it in my own family, 3 kids yet 5 ds because they break one or lose one. The parents saw it as a cheap enough toy that each one got it and they were replaced with out much fuss. You think a parent will buy each of their kids a NX ?

Best case NX does a 30/35 million. More likely GC numbers but just as likely its wiiu sales all over again.








potato_hamster said:
Miyamotoo said:
potato_hamster said:
 

No matter how difficult it is, It's an objective fact that it is simpler to port a game from 3DS to Wii U than it is to make a Wii U game from scratch. Even if you can't reuse most of the game and assets, the fact that you don't need to plan out the characters or tracks or menu or game modes means that a substantial part of the work is already done. It would have been easier to port MK7 to the Wii U than it was to make MK8. That's a fact.

You're failing to understand. "Simpler" is a pretty vague term. "Simpler" could make it 5% less work or 95% less work. 5% less work wouldn't make any bit of a difference in getting more games on the platform. 95% less work is substantial. How much simpler will Nintendo make it? We have no idea. The phrase is in of itself totally meaningless, and marketing speak that at the end of the day could result in a change that may have little impact on improving the difficulty of porting an NX home game to the NX portable from what it is to port a Wii U game to the 3DS.

To add to this as an example  based on my experience, you have to re-do 15-20% of the work to port a PS4 game to the X1 or vice versa. This is down from about 25-30% of things that had to be re-done to port a PS3 game to Xbox 360 or vice versa. So by doing nothing but choosing similar architectures, Sony and MS have made it "simpler" to port their games to each other's platform by doing nothing but making their consoles the way they saw fit. They unsurprisingly have not used this fact in marketing, but it remains true. Have you seen a flood of multi-platform games as a result of this, even though it's simpler to port a game between both? Absolutely not. WHy not? It's simpler, afterall! It's because it's still months of manhours of additional work, and that's hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars in additional costs for a AAA level game, and that might not be worth it for company in charge of developing it. Now any game company that may be interested in making an NX game might have to spend just as much time making an NX game as they will making a multiplatform PS4 and X1 game, and that is a very hard sell.

Let's be clear. I don't think your opinions are wrong, I'm saying there is no substantive basis for your opinion. Everything you're saying may be totally 100% correct, I don't know that, and neither do you. I'm simply saying you really have no grounds for the confidence you have in your predictions. There is simply not that much info available to be as confident as you are, and I'm simply pointing out the glaring holes that you're ignoring.

But Nintendo said why they hadn't done something like that before, and why they will do that only with next platform. They also said (and it very obvious) that they cant support any more in HD era two completely different platforms like before, and thats main reason why they are going for integration platform.

I dont know how many exactly simple, but definitely they will develop faster one MK game for NX handheld and NX home console than they developed separate MK games for 3DS and Wii U, and thats a whole point.

 

"may have little impact on improving the difficulty of porting an NX home game to the NX portable from what it is to port a Wii U game to the 3DS."

Dont think so, because Wii U and 3DS are completely different and they dont have nothing in common, but NX portable and home console will probably have same OS, same architecture and same way of developing, and that can make quite difference.

 

My opinion is based on things Nintendo said they planning to do with new platform.


If that's Nintendo's reasoning why they made MK8 rather than porting MK7, then that's a load of crap.It flat out is. I mean Ni No Kuni got ported from 3DS to PS3, and those two devices couldn't be more different. It's easier to do a port than it is to start from scratch. It always has been that way, and it more than likely always will.  I was part of a team that ported a PS3 game to the Vita (and yes it was far easier than making the game from scratch. It allowed us to develop the game in about 3/4 the time we would have alloted had we made it from scratch). If that can be done, and Ni No Kuni can be done, Nintendo has no excuses. You're just buying the marketing speak as fact. There are no technical reasons why MK7 could not be ported to the Wii U. None. Period.

Will it be easier to make a NX portable game from an NX home game than it was to make a 3DS game from a Wii U game? More than likely. It's really not difficult to make it even slightly easier. Will it be easy? More than likely not. The Wii U and 3Ds could not be more different? Really? They have more in common than the PS4 and Vita, and those platforms are definitely not "completely different". Processor/graphics/memory architecture are only a few pieces of the puzzle, there are many more that are very similar. Both have two serpate screens to display info, both have a similar controller layout, with the same buttons in more or less the same places (especially with the new 3DS). Both have touch enabled controls at the same part of the controller. The Wii U and 3DS have a lot more in common than say the PS3 or PS4 and the Vita do (Vita has a touch screen and a rear touch pad, and is missing the second set of trigger buttons) yet there have been plenty of ports between those two devices. Did Sony make it easier to port PS4 games to the Vita when they released the PS4? Yes they did. Is it signifcantly easier? Not really.

They said they're going for a more integrated platform, not a completely integrated one. Those are two different things. The PS4 and Vita are more integrated than the PS3 and PSP. That's another fact. In fact, one could quite easily argue that the PS4 and Vita are "brothers in a family of systems" since that is also equally as vague. The words "more integrated" are pretty vague are they not? So for all you know Nintendo is going for a more incremental change rather than the vast sweeping one you're so confident in. What then?

Dont agree, again.

We'll have to wait and see.



Miyamotoo said:
potato_hamster said:
Miyamotoo said:
potato_hamster said:
 

No matter how difficult it is, It's an objective fact that it is simpler to port a game from 3DS to Wii U than it is to make a Wii U game from scratch. Even if you can't reuse most of the game and assets, the fact that you don't need to plan out the characters or tracks or menu or game modes means that a substantial part of the work is already done. It would have been easier to port MK7 to the Wii U than it was to make MK8. That's a fact.

You're failing to understand. "Simpler" is a pretty vague term. "Simpler" could make it 5% less work or 95% less work. 5% less work wouldn't make any bit of a difference in getting more games on the platform. 95% less work is substantial. How much simpler will Nintendo make it? We have no idea. The phrase is in of itself totally meaningless, and marketing speak that at the end of the day could result in a change that may have little impact on improving the difficulty of porting an NX home game to the NX portable from what it is to port a Wii U game to the 3DS.

To add to this as an example  based on my experience, you have to re-do 15-20% of the work to port a PS4 game to the X1 or vice versa. This is down from about 25-30% of things that had to be re-done to port a PS3 game to Xbox 360 or vice versa. So by doing nothing but choosing similar architectures, Sony and MS have made it "simpler" to port their games to each other's platform by doing nothing but making their consoles the way they saw fit. They unsurprisingly have not used this fact in marketing, but it remains true. Have you seen a flood of multi-platform games as a result of this, even though it's simpler to port a game between both? Absolutely not. WHy not? It's simpler, afterall! It's because it's still months of manhours of additional work, and that's hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars in additional costs for a AAA level game, and that might not be worth it for company in charge of developing it. Now any game company that may be interested in making an NX game might have to spend just as much time making an NX game as they will making a multiplatform PS4 and X1 game, and that is a very hard sell.

Let's be clear. I don't think your opinions are wrong, I'm saying there is no substantive basis for your opinion. Everything you're saying may be totally 100% correct, I don't know that, and neither do you. I'm simply saying you really have no grounds for the confidence you have in your predictions. There is simply not that much info available to be as confident as you are, and I'm simply pointing out the glaring holes that you're ignoring.

But Nintendo said why they hadn't done something like that before, and why they will do that only with next platform. They also said (and it very obvious) that they cant support any more in HD era two completely different platforms like before, and thats main reason why they are going for integration platform.

I dont know how many exactly simple, but definitely they will develop faster one MK game for NX handheld and NX home console than they developed separate MK games for 3DS and Wii U, and thats a whole point.

 

"may have little impact on improving the difficulty of porting an NX home game to the NX portable from what it is to port a Wii U game to the 3DS."

Dont think so, because Wii U and 3DS are completely different and they dont have nothing in common, but NX portable and home console will probably have same OS, same architecture and same way of developing, and that can make quite difference.

 

My opinion is based on things Nintendo said they planning to do with new platform.


If that's Nintendo's reasoning why they made MK8 rather than porting MK7, then that's a load of crap.It flat out is. I mean Ni No Kuni got ported from 3DS to PS3, and those two devices couldn't be more different. It's easier to do a port than it is to start from scratch. It always has been that way, and it more than likely always will.  I was part of a team that ported a PS3 game to the Vita (and yes it was far easier than making the game from scratch. It allowed us to develop the game in about 3/4 the time we would have alloted had we made it from scratch). If that can be done, and Ni No Kuni can be done, Nintendo has no excuses. You're just buying the marketing speak as fact. There are no technical reasons why MK7 could not be ported to the Wii U. None. Period.

Will it be easier to make a NX portable game from an NX home game than it was to make a 3DS game from a Wii U game? More than likely. It's really not difficult to make it even slightly easier. Will it be easy? More than likely not. The Wii U and 3Ds could not be more different? Really? They have more in common than the PS4 and Vita, and those platforms are definitely not "completely different". Processor/graphics/memory architecture are only a few pieces of the puzzle, there are many more that are very similar. Both have two serpate screens to display info, both have a similar controller layout, with the same buttons in more or less the same places (especially with the new 3DS). Both have touch enabled controls at the same part of the controller. The Wii U and 3DS have a lot more in common than say the PS3 or PS4 and the Vita do (Vita has a touch screen and a rear touch pad, and is missing the second set of trigger buttons) yet there have been plenty of ports between those two devices. Did Sony make it easier to port PS4 games to the Vita when they released the PS4? Yes they did. Is it signifcantly easier? Not really.

They said they're going for a more integrated platform, not a completely integrated one. Those are two different things. The PS4 and Vita are more integrated than the PS3 and PSP. That's another fact. In fact, one could quite easily argue that the PS4 and Vita are "brothers in a family of systems" since that is also equally as vague. The words "more integrated" are pretty vague are they not? So for all you know Nintendo is going for a more incremental change rather than the vast sweeping one you're so confident in. What then?

Dont agree, again.

We'll have to wait and see.

Well of course you don't agree. That would involve entertaining the idea that the console that you've created in your head is a whole lot of wishful thinking, and acknowleding that the marketing phrases you've latched onto can be interpreted in dozens of different ways. I find it rather amusing that this whole argument has bears a striking resemblance to conversations about whether or not one's chosen religion is in fact the correct one, when they refuse to consider that they may in fact be wrong, and all of these other religions have an equal chance of being correct as theirs.

You have a lot of faith in Nintendo sir.



potato_hamster said:
Miyamotoo said:
potato_hamster said:
Miyamotoo said:
potato_hamster said:
 

No matter how difficult it is, It's an objective fact that it is simpler to port a game from 3DS to Wii U than it is to make a Wii U game from scratch. Even if you can't reuse most of the game and assets, the fact that you don't need to plan out the characters or tracks or menu or game modes means that a substantial part of the work is already done. It would have been easier to port MK7 to the Wii U than it was to make MK8. That's a fact.

You're failing to understand. "Simpler" is a pretty vague term. "Simpler" could make it 5% less work or 95% less work. 5% less work wouldn't make any bit of a difference in getting more games on the platform. 95% less work is substantial. How much simpler will Nintendo make it? We have no idea. The phrase is in of itself totally meaningless, and marketing speak that at the end of the day could result in a change that may have little impact on improving the difficulty of porting an NX home game to the NX portable from what it is to port a Wii U game to the 3DS.

To add to this as an example  based on my experience, you have to re-do 15-20% of the work to port a PS4 game to the X1 or vice versa. This is down from about 25-30% of things that had to be re-done to port a PS3 game to Xbox 360 or vice versa. So by doing nothing but choosing similar architectures, Sony and MS have made it "simpler" to port their games to each other's platform by doing nothing but making their consoles the way they saw fit. They unsurprisingly have not used this fact in marketing, but it remains true. Have you seen a flood of multi-platform games as a result of this, even though it's simpler to port a game between both? Absolutely not. WHy not? It's simpler, afterall! It's because it's still months of manhours of additional work, and that's hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars in additional costs for a AAA level game, and that might not be worth it for company in charge of developing it. Now any game company that may be interested in making an NX game might have to spend just as much time making an NX game as they will making a multiplatform PS4 and X1 game, and that is a very hard sell.

Let's be clear. I don't think your opinions are wrong, I'm saying there is no substantive basis for your opinion. Everything you're saying may be totally 100% correct, I don't know that, and neither do you. I'm simply saying you really have no grounds for the confidence you have in your predictions. There is simply not that much info available to be as confident as you are, and I'm simply pointing out the glaring holes that you're ignoring.

But Nintendo said why they hadn't done something like that before, and why they will do that only with next platform. They also said (and it very obvious) that they cant support any more in HD era two completely different platforms like before, and thats main reason why they are going for integration platform.

I dont know how many exactly simple, but definitely they will develop faster one MK game for NX handheld and NX home console than they developed separate MK games for 3DS and Wii U, and thats a whole point.

 

"may have little impact on improving the difficulty of porting an NX home game to the NX portable from what it is to port a Wii U game to the 3DS."

Dont think so, because Wii U and 3DS are completely different and they dont have nothing in common, but NX portable and home console will probably have same OS, same architecture and same way of developing, and that can make quite difference.

 

My opinion is based on things Nintendo said they planning to do with new platform.


If that's Nintendo's reasoning why they made MK8 rather than porting MK7, then that's a load of crap.It flat out is. I mean Ni No Kuni got ported from 3DS to PS3, and those two devices couldn't be more different. It's easier to do a port than it is to start from scratch. It always has been that way, and it more than likely always will.  I was part of a team that ported a PS3 game to the Vita (and yes it was far easier than making the game from scratch. It allowed us to develop the game in about 3/4 the time we would have alloted had we made it from scratch). If that can be done, and Ni No Kuni can be done, Nintendo has no excuses. You're just buying the marketing speak as fact. There are no technical reasons why MK7 could not be ported to the Wii U. None. Period.

Will it be easier to make a NX portable game from an NX home game than it was to make a 3DS game from a Wii U game? More than likely. It's really not difficult to make it even slightly easier. Will it be easy? More than likely not. The Wii U and 3Ds could not be more different? Really? They have more in common than the PS4 and Vita, and those platforms are definitely not "completely different". Processor/graphics/memory architecture are only a few pieces of the puzzle, there are many more that are very similar. Both have two serpate screens to display info, both have a similar controller layout, with the same buttons in more or less the same places (especially with the new 3DS). Both have touch enabled controls at the same part of the controller. The Wii U and 3DS have a lot more in common than say the PS3 or PS4 and the Vita do (Vita has a touch screen and a rear touch pad, and is missing the second set of trigger buttons) yet there have been plenty of ports between those two devices. Did Sony make it easier to port PS4 games to the Vita when they released the PS4? Yes they did. Is it signifcantly easier? Not really.

They said they're going for a more integrated platform, not a completely integrated one. Those are two different things. The PS4 and Vita are more integrated than the PS3 and PSP. That's another fact. In fact, one could quite easily argue that the PS4 and Vita are "brothers in a family of systems" since that is also equally as vague. The words "more integrated" are pretty vague are they not? So for all you know Nintendo is going for a more incremental change rather than the vast sweeping one you're so confident in. What then?

Dont agree, again.

We'll have to wait and see.

Well of course you don't agree. That would involve entertaining the idea that the console that you've created in your head is a whole lot of wishful thinking, and acknowleding that the marketing phrases you've latched onto can be interpreted in dozens of different ways. I find it rather amusing that this whole argument has bears a striking resemblance to conversations about whether or not one's chosen religion is in fact the correct one, when they refuse to consider that they may in fact be wrong, and all of these other religions have an equal chance of being correct as theirs.

You have a lot of faith in Nintendo sir.

No, just dont have so many time to give you counter arguments and proves that I dont agree with you, over and over again, especially because we had similar conversion few months ago.

I have faith in Nintendo but I certainly didn't expect Wii/DS success with NX, but you dont have none.



2016 will proberly also be the year Nintendo enter the chiness marked for real..