No they don't. That's the claim of the 9 dash line which is being shredded in the arbitration that China does not want to participate because they know its against international law by the UN which they are a part of. If we accept what China is saying then the United Nation is meaningless.

Blow the islands up? That would lead to world war 3. Not to mention, the only nation that could do that would be the US which ain't doing anything.

Those are military bases, that has airstrips and probably sub pens. Those ain't small islands and the Islands have already been built and are operational.

Yes, they do! Ever since 1947 they've claimed the original islands. What international laws were there at the time against annexing technically rogue territories ? 

They own the original land fair and square as per their methods but unfortunately the UNCLOS agreement does not apply in this case ... 

In a hypothetical scenario what exactly are you supposed to do when two sovereign island states are within less than 200 nautical miles of each other ? 

As for the artificial islands, what exactly does China's neighbors have to be afraid of when it is technically under their jurisdiction as to do so ? 

How can you claim a group of islands that no one lives there? And they took areas that's not even part of the contested areas!

So your saying the UN law is meaningless and a claim of China should be enforced that destroys the soveriegnty of other nations?

The hypothesis means nothing in this case because what China took is not within the 200 nuatical miles of their country. Do not change the subject.

And btw China is harassing the fishermen of other countries who's ancestry has fished and lived there far longer than the claim of the 9 dash line. That is the problem. Denying a soveriegn country's right to fish and gather resources from their own waters is a violation of internal law.

There is no going around about that.

If China had every right to claim the entire South China Sea then they would not be afraid to go to the arbitration but they choose not to do so.

This is what I mean by China getting a free pass. They break international law but they are still in the right for a claim that no one but themselves accepts to be true.

Edit: Wait when you made your argument, you mean only the Parcel and Spratlys right? Because what I'm saying is they kinda took more than that and they kinda laying the claim on the entire South China Sea. So I just wanted to be sure, I'm not misunderstanding what your saying. ^^

The UNCLOS agreement DID NOT apply before 1994 November 16, period! China still owns the land that they reclaimed but as for who owns the overlapping waters that is still disputed therefore the UNCLOS does not apply in this case ... 

China's neighbors should probably negotiate what part of the sea they own instead of depending on a flawed international law to give them their waters ...

Anyways let's drop this or you can maybe put another thread since this is a little off-topic ...

ehhhh

not really at this point, at least anywhere near the old Cold War

what made the Cold War so significant was that there were two countries who had the perfect (as terrible as it was) scenario to give them both leadership positions: i.e. Wold War II. It's unique for a conflict to end with two large countries both receiving so much power in a way (USA from just industry and taking advantage arguably of the time Europe rebuilt, Russia obviously from taking over half of Europe)

the USA and Russia were both nearly equally more powerful by a long shot over the next countries and were polar opposites

currently, despite the big tension between Russia and the USA, I don't see them anywhere near equal nor comparable. Russia is too weak now in terms of their position in the world economy and the thing is too big of a portion of the world doesn't see eye to eye with them

you could argue that at thie point even India is more powerful than Russia (obviously I'm speaking beyond nuclear capabilities)

if it were China who were having all of this tension with the USA then I would say, yes, that would be a lot more comparable. but Russia beyond nuclear capability is just too much of a shadow for another Cold War to really pop up... there isn't enough gain to be had or frankly enough hate between the two nations for fear of a nuclear world imo

I could however see tensions reaching the old Cold War level at some point due to a third party; i.e. Russia/China/USA supporting different sides over a Middle Eastern conflict or whatever. but we're not at that point genuinely yet in terms of differences or particular conflict 

Sorry my edit came in a bit late. I wanted to clarify something hehehe

You are talking about the Parcel and Spratlys right? Unless you agree with China that they own the entire South China Sea which is what the 9 dash line is claiming...

Also, you can't just say China owns the territorial waters of other countries because UNCLOS was not present then, that's illogical. Our ancestors has been fishing and living in those areas far longer than the Chinese and you cannot say that UNCLOS means nothing either when China themselves agreed to it.

Its simple, if China's claim is valid. They why would they continuesly avoid the arbitration?

Actually, this discussions is good and we are actually on point. This is the type of scenario that leads countries into a war. cold or otherwise.

So its cool!

although I did see some talk in the last few pages of this thread about the Chinese 'sea' and I do think that's a great point, potentially I could see a Cold War brew between China and the USA if the Chinese get too heavy into trying to develop around there, in territory/waters considered international

it is somewhat absurd if you think about it though, for China to claim waters so far from their shores, in some cases ocean/islands that are just as close to other countries territory

that said I know that China will do whatever it takes to not get into serious tensions with some of their neighbors / USA simply because of their economy. although China may have one of the biggest growing economies in the world they also arguably have one of the least balanced ones, and for its size probably the economy that is MOST reliant on its trading partners. it is extremely artificially grown too, with China constantly adjusting their currency internally to make it weaker in comparison to other currencies as to encourage people to trade with them (i.e. the REminbi is worth like nothing next to the Euro or Dollar)

the issue is basically China's economy is built on very weak foundation at the moment, their goal has been to push growth no matter what the options may be and not always with thinking about the future

issues

China stops trading with the USA? USA begins to make more crap from India or South America instead. USA/West stops trading with China? their economy collapses

that is the stress/dangerous part of having economy practically fully built on the cheap manufacture of goods. it's not anywhere near as stable as an economy built on technology/agriculture/natural resources at this point

I think a lot of that explains why China is being so aggressive trying to gurantee their ocean claims in Asia- they recognize how unstable their economy is long term and how much it relies on other nations. By grasping more land or water locations that contain natural resources (in these cases mostly oil) they give themselves more freedom and more power through natural resources

in the end there is only so far China will go to attempt to obtain the water around them, obviously it's a current priority but we're not seeing them push insanely hard yet because it would not be worth risking their trading partners. we'll see how much they ramp up building oil infrastructure out there and how their neighbors react and then how they react. these things take time though, China has just began it's attempt to take advantage of the sea on its borders so its quite hard to say yet if it will develop into an international conflict

I agree with everything you said, except the bolded part because they already have done it. US Naval vessels can't even get close to those man made islands in international waters without being warned that they are tresspassing in China's territory. Again, that's international waters far from the disputed areas or Parcel and Spratlys.

Its just not getting much attention as Crimea or Syria because its over water.

You guys are probably right that China does not want to anger the US but with the US being weak willed and I'm pretty sure none of the west wants to go to war (I want to play Fallout 5 on a PC/console and not in real life). China's bluff is being extremely well played at the expense of ultra-super-duper weak country like mine. lol!

Hmm, I may agree that China has ownership of those tiny islands but as for the sea, China and it's neighbors should come to a settlement, not use UNCLOS to assert that they own these overlapping waters for themselves ...

UNCLOS only took affect AFTER 1994 November 16 and I'm pretty sure the vietnamese had a longer recorded history with the South China Sea than the philippines did ... 

They avoid arbitration because we all know that the international courts might relinquish China's claim on these islands so their only trying to protect their spoils from WWII ... 

Thanks for the clarification bro, I knew there was a misunderstanding going on with our conversation. xD

I for one actually don't really care about Parcel and Spratlys, I think Asian nations should actually work together to preserve that environment while doing joint research on how to gather its resources without destroying it.