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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Kotaku claims to be blacklisted by Bethesda and Ubisoft

kitler53 said:
mornelithe said:
http://www.gamezone.com/originals/opinion-no-kotaku-you-weren-t-blacklisted-for-speaking-the-truth-jxh2

Pretty much sums it up, I think.


"Kotaku is a tabloid, and this argument that they post about leaked games for “truth” instead of pageviews is a blatant lie."

 

xD


There's another good one from Harmful Opinions:


View on YouTube



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mornelithe said:
binary solo said:
I couldn't have said it better than Jim Sterling https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeL34nbEo8s

Unlike most people here who fail to grasp the broader implications he takes a dim view of blacklisting. I hope Kotaku continues to do well so that publishers realise that blacklisting is not a legitimate tactic and is bad for gaming media because it turn gaming media into merely an extension of the game industry PR machine, which is ultimately bad for us the gamers. If the occasional website behaves like a dick then that's the price to be paid by keeping the gaming media and the game industry at arms length.

Not really, pretty sure Kotaku isn't an extension of Ubi or Bethesda, so that kinda fails under scrutiny.   It's also the developers/publishers choice.  Just as Kotaku is free to write whatever they want, Publishers/Devs are free to associate with whomever they want (protected under the same amendment). 

Did you watch the video? Of course the publishers have the choice, that's not the issue. The issue is whether blacklisting is a helpful or harmful tactic in the broader scheme of things and whether us as the ultimate source of the profits for game companies are well served by publishers thinking they can blacklist media outlets for whatever reason they want. You might be able to argue that this blacklisting was somewhat justified, but blacklisting has been done for some very dodgy reasons, bad reviews, and the more publishers think they can blacklist with gamers on their side the more they will do it and the worse off we'll be.

It's kind of ironic that people who supported the so-called aims of #GG regarding journalistic ethics (which basically amounts to media colluding with publishers to give good press for games) are basically in support of this tactic, which is exactly one way for game companies to exert pressure on gaming media to give good press. The threat of blacklisting puts gaming media on notice to be more positive towards the publishers.

Blacklisting is generaly an abusive practice and gamers should be generally opposed to it, regardless of what they think about the behaviour of the media outlet concerned. Kotaku may be a rare case where it is justified. But I tend to err on the side of being highly sceptical about the companies doing the blacklisting because business trying to control the media is a dangerous thing for the consumer.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

Sites should NOT keep their "heads down". Why? Because it's this stuff that creates a culture of corruption and if you want corruption out of our industry, this is the only way to go about it. Big sites like this should report and expose things like this otherwise the power is in the hands of the publishers. When the publishers hold the keys, they can dictate and influence things... and we don't want that.



More publishers should blacklist Kotaku. And others. Integrity is a important thing when you are the media and if they are going to show no integrity and betray the trust of those publishers, then those publishers are doing right by themselves.



Seventizz said:
Kotaku favors all things Japanese - or at least they used to. It's part of their schtick. Ubisoft and Bathesda aren't Japanese.

There's your answer.


Not really, they just show something crazy happening from japan alot of times but they never actually promoting japanese games. And they are pro feminism if i am correct? 



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Smart move by them



Currently most hyped for: FFXV and Zelda U

binary solo said:
mornelithe said:

Not really, pretty sure Kotaku isn't an extension of Ubi or Bethesda, so that kinda fails under scrutiny.   It's also the developers/publishers choice.  Just as Kotaku is free to write whatever they want, Publishers/Devs are free to associate with whomever they want (protected under the same amendment). 

Did you watch the video? Of course the publishers have the choice, that's not the issue. The issue is whether blacklisting is a helpful or harmful tactic in the broader scheme of things and whether us as the ultimate source of the profits for game companies are well served by publishers thinking they can blacklist media outlets for whatever reason they want. You might be able to argue that this blacklisting was somewhat justified, but blacklisting has been done for some very dodgy reasons, bad reviews, and the more publishers think they can blacklist with gamers on their side the more they will do it and the worse off we'll be.

It's kind of ironic that people who supported the so-called aims of #GG regarding journalistic ethics (which basically amounts to media colluding with publishers to give good press for games) are basically in support of this tactic, which is exactly one way for game companies to exert pressure on gaming media to give good press. The threat of blacklisting puts gaming media on notice to be more positive towards the publishers.

Blacklisting is generaly an abusive practice and gamers should be generally opposed to it, regardless of what they think about the behaviour of the media outlet concerned. Kotaku may be a rare case where it is justified. But I tend to err on the side of being highly sceptical about the companies doing the blacklisting because business trying to control the media is a dangerous thing for the consumer.

Thank you for this post.  I thought I was taking crazy pills while reading this thread.

The relationship between publishers and gaming journalists is far too cozy for my liking already.  Publishers thinking they can get away with blacklisting media is just going to make things worse.



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lol



binary solo said:
mornelithe said:

Not really, pretty sure Kotaku isn't an extension of Ubi or Bethesda, so that kinda fails under scrutiny.   It's also the developers/publishers choice.  Just as Kotaku is free to write whatever they want, Publishers/Devs are free to associate with whomever they want (protected under the same amendment). 

Did you watch the video? Of course the publishers have the choice, that's not the issue. The issue is whether blacklisting is a helpful or harmful tactic in the broader scheme of things and whether us as the ultimate source of the profits for game companies are well served by publishers thinking they can blacklist media outlets for whatever reason they want. You might be able to argue that this blacklisting was somewhat justified, but blacklisting has been done for some very dodgy reasons, bad reviews, and the more publishers think they can blacklist with gamers on their side the more they will do it and the worse off we'll be.

It's kind of ironic that people who supported the so-called aims of #GG regarding journalistic ethics (which basically amounts to media colluding with publishers to give good press for games) are basically in support of this tactic, which is exactly one way for game companies to exert pressure on gaming media to give good press. The threat of blacklisting puts gaming media on notice to be more positive towards the publishers.

Blacklisting is generaly an abusive practice and gamers should be generally opposed to it, regardless of what they think about the behaviour of the media outlet concerned. Kotaku may be a rare case where it is justified. But I tend to err on the side of being highly sceptical about the companies doing the blacklisting because business trying to control the media is a dangerous thing for the consumer.

Why would I watch a video of someone who supports Doxxing?   His opinions are irrelevant to me, and I've already linked an article and a video that are more in line with my thoughts on the matter.

Bottom line though, this isn't an ethics thing, this is about two different rights.  Freedom of Speech, Kotaku's right to publish whatever they want.  And Freedom of Association - Bethesda and Ubisoft's right to associate with whomever they desire.   This isn't about writers sleeping with people they cover, covering ex/current roommates, or taking money from Publishers/Devs for favorable reviews.  The claim here is that because Kotaku chose to reveal two titles that hadn't been announced yet, those Pubs decided not to do business with them any longer.  Both actions are ethically and legally allowed.



mornelithe said:
binary solo said:

Did you watch the video? Of course the publishers have the choice, that's not the issue. The issue is whether blacklisting is a helpful or harmful tactic in the broader scheme of things and whether us as the ultimate source of the profits for game companies are well served by publishers thinking they can blacklist media outlets for whatever reason they want. You might be able to argue that this blacklisting was somewhat justified, but blacklisting has been done for some very dodgy reasons, bad reviews, and the more publishers think they can blacklist with gamers on their side the more they will do it and the worse off we'll be.

It's kind of ironic that people who supported the so-called aims of #GG regarding journalistic ethics (which basically amounts to media colluding with publishers to give good press for games) are basically in support of this tactic, which is exactly one way for game companies to exert pressure on gaming media to give good press. The threat of blacklisting puts gaming media on notice to be more positive towards the publishers.

Blacklisting is generaly an abusive practice and gamers should be generally opposed to it, regardless of what they think about the behaviour of the media outlet concerned. Kotaku may be a rare case where it is justified. But I tend to err on the side of being highly sceptical about the companies doing the blacklisting because business trying to control the media is a dangerous thing for the consumer.

Why would I watch a video of someone who supports Doxxing?   His opinions are irrelevant to me, and I've already linked an article and a video that are more in line with my thoughts on the matter.

Bottom line though, this isn't an ethics thing, this is about two different rights.  Freedom of Speech, Kotaku's right to publish whatever they want.  And Freedom of Association - Bethesda and Ubisoft's right to associate with whomever they desire.   This isn't about writers sleeping with people they cover, covering ex/current roommates, or taking money from Publishers/Devs for favorable reviews.  The claim here is that because Kotaku chose to reveal two titles that hadn't been announced yet, those Pubs decided not to do business with them any longer.  Both actions are ethically and legally allowed.

No he doesn't, https://m.ask.fm/Jimquisition/answers/129585918178 a stupid thing to say at the time, but he has clarified and I'm satisfied with his explanation as lame as he was in the first place, and as lame an excuse as it is. I hate "but it was just a joke" excuses, but if it really was a terrible attempt at sarcasm then I accept it at the same time as being very disappointed in him for what he initially said and how he said it.

Anyway, unless you are legally bound to conform to a code of ethics, like lawyers or doctors, then "ethically allowed" is meaningless. And indeed I completely disagree with you on the point that either sides' actions were ethically OK. If you actually believe Kotaku was ethically OK to do what it has been said they did, then surely you would say the blacklisting is an extreme and unethical over-reaction on the parts of Ubi and Bethesda, legal, yes, ethical no. And if you think that what Kotaku is said to have done is ethically dodgy then does that mean it is ethically passable for publishers to use an inherently ethically dodgy practice in response.

Blacklisting of media has a much borader context than this one case and it is a very problematic action because it has strong implications of corruption, collusion, and suppression.  And it would worry me greatly if other games media swung in behind Ubi and Bethesda in supporting the blacklisting. I do note with interest that the gamezone article doesn't directly support Bethesda's and Ubisoft's actions, and it is a reasonable critique of Kotaku's action. But I think most readers are taking that Op-ed as a tacit endorsement of blacklisting as a media control tactic, and that's a concern.

 



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix