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Forums - Nintendo - Xenoblade Chronicles X is the biggest game of the year...

Tachikoma said:
Goodnightmoon said:



So i got out the calculator and did a whole bunch of tests for various speeds and walking/jogging/sprinting speed, and this is what I end up with.

Map is claimed to be 400km/sq

Map with that size is then, 29km wide by 14km tall, so we can calculate, from the direct line speedrun, that:

Claimed Doll speed (Boosting) 116.4204 mph / 187.3605 kmh 
Claimed Doll speed (Standard) 75.1009 mph / 120.8633 kmh

Sprint speed   (Predefined distance ingame) 1.25s A to B = 25.88 mph / 41.65 kph (12.94x speed of walking)
Run speed      (Predefined distance ingame) 2.22 A to B  = 14.58 mph / 23.46 kph (7.29x speed of walking)
Walk speed     (Predefined distance ingame) 16.18 A to B = 2 mph / 3.21 kmh

Based off of the claimed map size versus doll speed in relation to that map size, we can calculate the following for land based doll movement.

Doll Run speed      (Predefined distance ingame) 1.15 = 28.2 mph / 45.4 kph (14.1x speed of walking)
Doll driving speed  (Predefined distance ingame) 0.2s = 161.6 mph / 260 kph (80.8x speed of walking)

What we can do is compare point to point distance on a beach, both in the water boosting, and in the wheeled vehicle mode along the same stretch, the results are that the driving speed is the same as on-water boosting, which means that the speed of 187.36kmh based on a map size of 400km/s, is wrong, and the true speed is actually somewhere around 160km/h, which means that the top to bottom distance is really 7.4288 miles / 11.96 km, thus we can work out from that, that the true width is then roughly 25.2km, making the total map area actually 301.392.

If we take the entire claimed 400km/sq map of XCX and blank out the land then pixel count, we find that only 14.7% of the map is actually land, meaning that the true map size is 14.7% of the claimed 400mk/sq, thus XCX's map playable land is 58.8km/sq (if it were infact 400/sq km)

But if we take the actual map size of 301.39km/sq and apply the same 14.7% land mass calculation what you end up with is a playable land mass of 44.3km/sq, when you consider that GTAV is known to be 30sq miles / 48.3km/sq of playable area (including underwater areas), you see that if you count land-only playable area, GTAV is basically the same size.

It's still impressive, but nowhere near as big as people are clammoring to claim it is. as for their claim of 400km/s, likely at some point or another they allowed you to map-loop (go off the top and enter the bottom), but later on added the barrier walls around the extrimities of the map, thus pulling it's overall size down to 301km/s, however even if they had left the map loop in place, the area beyond the barrier is still just water, so the overall land size would still be around 44km/sq.

I still maintain though that the world feels smaller when you're actually playing, because it is designed really quite barron, the open areas don't scale well with the actual size, in part because of the running speed, and in part because the geometry is low poly when scaled next to a normal player character, when you get a doll the world feels "correctly proportioned", and in turn, ends up feeling 5x-7x smaller as a result.

Oh, and one last thing that bugs me about the ops video, the guy talking claims that the doll in XCX is covering a mile "every couple of seconds". to do that, the doll would need to be travelling at the following speeds:

2 seconds: 1800.0000 mph
3 seconds: 1200.0000 mph
4 seconds: 900.0000 mph
5 seconds: 
720.0000 mph

When in actual fact, the doll, boosting, covers a mile every 36.21 seconds.


Damn, good job on this.

Looking at the map, and watching the video the world does seem like they could fit the playable sections into a much smaller area, and it looked pretty empty in the video. Though I'm still very interested in the game, and I'm considering getting anyways.



Bet with Adamblaziken:

I bet that on launch the Nintendo Switch will have no built in in-game voice chat. He bets that it will. The winner gets six months of avatar control over the other user.

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Tachikoma said:
Goodnightmoon said:

Except that on the video that guy is not making a straight line from A to B in Skyrim, he goes around mountains just as the guy on XCX dont go straight. I´m not saying that the video is accurate though, probably is far from accurate, but your comments look far from accurate too.

As stated, the guy playing XCX starts at the top, goes to the middle, diverts to the far right then goes to the far left then back upwards,

Here is a more straight-line path along the bottom three continents. 

http://kotaku.com/it-takes-31-minutes-to-run-across-xenoblade-x-s-open-wo-1708403421

If we are to assume that on Mira a person travels 50% faster than on Earth (due to lower gravity as has been stated) then we would get something like 6 m/s (on the low end)*60*30 seconds. That gives us 10,800 meters or 10.8 km (Skyrim in comparison is something like 5 km wide.) Both Skyrim and XBC:X continents have ellipictal shapes so the vertical foci are smaller than the horizontal ones. A relative area estimate is likely similar to the relative linear estimate for this reason. 

In a more intuitive comparison it takes about the same time to get across skyrim's map (linearly) with a slower and limited running speed (you must sprint.) Also the guy even fights a few enemies. 

I agree that it always seemed the case that the game wasn't actually 400 km^2. You could've just used the method of exhaustion to figure that out by getting a good estimate of NLA's area and filling it into the land area, multiplying by the number of NLA's. But it is still larger than Skyrim by a considerable amount in terms of pure numbers. How that feels for different people (based on character speed and world density) I can imagine varies. Many people say it is huge and the sense of scale is considerable. You say otherwise. That is a pretty subjective metric. 



Boberkun said:
midrange said:


Bayonetta 2 won multiple awards (including GOTY for some sites) while having plenty of perfect scores despite being a "wii u exclusive". There is no conspiracy against the wii u and its exclusives. I don't get why people act as if there is

Check feedback for Devil's Third and Fatal Frame V. For Bayonetta 2 I mean comments in the internet, not awards.


Well, Devils third is just plain bad. Are you telling me that a meta score of under 50 deserves to be talked about fondly? (No, meta score isn't the final say of good or bad, but with a score around 30, it's a pretty damn good indicator).

fatal frame got shit on because it's download only in the US. Meaning those with an 8 gb wii u can't even play the game. Add in the fact that it didn't get above stellar reviews, and it's certainly not something people will go out of their way for to talk kindly about.

bayonetta 2 got internet hate, but many games get internet hate, not just Nintendo exclusives. Last of us, Uncharted, call of duty, assassins creed, fallout, doom, Titanfall, watch dogs, Destiny, and even major peripherals like the Microsoft Kinect. Once again, there is no conspiracy against the wii u, stop acting as if there is



Mbolibombo said:

Well the only thing we know about XCX is that it has beautiful environments, kick ass music combined with a few wtf moments and the fact that is a frikking huge game. How could we possibly talk about story and presentation yet when we have not been able to play it just yet?

But if that is getting you skeptical of it, that sucks for you.


The game is already out. Everything is known about the game already. (I just haven't spoiled it for myself)



sc94597 said:

If we are to assume that on Mira a person travels 50% faster than on Earth (due to lower gravity as has been stated) 

I tested in game, there are three stages of walking speed, standard, run and sprint, the standard walking speed based on a difference calculated by the height of the characters comes in at 2mph, give or take a fraction, which puts the running and sprinting speed to more or less the same as the average, healthy human on earth, the only area where gravity augments the players abilities is with jumping, where a character can jump 4x their height, which calculates down to .3% earths gravity, again give or take a fraction.

 

As for subjective view on scale, I agree, an area where XCX suffers is that the four main areas, and the single city are clear cut in their transition, which makes the world seem smaller as a result of running into different "sections", as you play you start to get into a habbit of blanking out the journey and instead it becomes a chore because beyond killing monsters and grinding exp, theres very little to actually do in the land.

Imagine if you would, that Fallout New vegas had the vegas strip city area, and everything outside of that city was just barron land with next to nothing to interact with, just monsters to kill and waypoints to run to if you happened to have a mission.

The lack of random encounters for side missions and the reliance on a hub based mission system does the world size an injustice because once youve explored most of the area once, you end up just using the fast travel function to jump to the nearest beacon to the waypoint, but ultimately, that lack of things to do beyond "open chests" dotted around the map and the occasional NPC that only does anything useful if you are on the specific mission which uses them, ultimately makes the world feel empty and lifeless, but more importantly, turns the games central mechanic into a grindfest.

Even as Skyrims map is technically smaller, gameplay wise its bigger because the quests that are given by the npcs that fill it, and the locations which themselves lead to their own plotlines, quests and descision making elements, fill the world with life and thus, progression through that world is more interesting and engaging.

It takes between 30 and 50 hours to unlock dolls in XCX, but a majority of that time is spent on overly long cutscenes (painfully long, infact), and extremely boring and repetitive hunting and gathering missions, that go out of their way to make the distances between quest steps as long as possible to drag it out as much as they can, combine that with the painful grind for leveling up, and the longer you play the more the hollow nature of the game ultimately detracts from it's own world.



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Tachikoma said:

So i got out the calculator and did a whole bunch of tests for various speeds and walking/jogging/sprinting speed, and this is what I end up with.

Map is claimed to be 400km/sq

Map with that size is then, 29km wide by 14km tall, so we can calculate, from the direct line speedrun, that:

Claimed Doll speed (Boosting) 116.4204 mph / 187.3605 kmh 
Claimed Doll speed (Standard) 75.1009 mph / 120.8633 kmh

Sprint speed   (Predefined distance ingame) 1.25s A to B = 25.88 mph / 41.65 kph (12.94x speed of walking)
Run speed      (Predefined distance ingame) 2.22 A to B  = 14.58 mph / 23.46 kph (7.29x speed of walking)
Walk speed     (Predefined distance ingame) 16.18 A to B = 2 mph / 3.21 kmh

Based off of the claimed map size versus doll speed in relation to that map size, we can calculate the following for land based doll movement.

Doll Run speed      (Predefined distance ingame) 1.15 = 28.2 mph / 45.4 kph (14.1x speed of walking)
Doll driving speed  (Predefined distance ingame) 0.2s = 161.6 mph / 260 kph (80.8x speed of walking)

What we can do is compare point to point distance on a beach, both in the water boosting, and in the wheeled vehicle mode along the same stretch, the results are that the driving speed is the same as on-water boosting, which means that the speed of 187.36kmh based on a map size of 400km/s, is wrong, and the true speed is actually somewhere around 160km/h, which means that the top to bottom distance is really 7.4288 miles / 11.96 km, thus we can work out from that, that the true width is then roughly 25.2km, making the total map area actually 301.392.

If we take the entire claimed 400km/sq map of XCX and blank out the land then pixel count, we find that only 14.7% of the map is actually land, meaning that the true map size is 14.7% of the claimed 400mk/sq, thus XCX's map playable land is 58.8km/sq (if it were infact 400/sq km)

But if we take the actual map size of 301.39km/sq and apply the same 14.7% land mass calculation what you end up with is a playable land mass of 44.3km/sq, when you consider that GTAV is known to be 30sq miles / 48.3km/sq of playable area (including underwater areas), you see that if you count land-only playable area, GTAV is basically the same size.

It's still impressive, but nowhere near as big as people are clammoring to claim it is. as for their claim of 400km/s, likely at some point or another they allowed you to map-loop (go off the top and enter the bottom), but later on added the barrier walls around the extrimities of the map, thus pulling it's overall size down to 301km/s, however even if they had left the map loop in place, the area beyond the barrier is still just water, so the overall land size would still be around 44km/sq.

I still maintain though that the world feels smaller when you're actually playing, because it is designed really quite barron, the open areas don't scale well with the actual size, in part because of the running speed, and in part because the geometry is low poly when scaled next to a normal player character, when you get a doll the world feels "correctly proportioned", and in turn, ends up feeling 5x-7x smaller as a result.

Oh, and one last thing that bugs me about the ops video, the guy talking claims that the doll in XCX is covering a mile "every couple of seconds". to do that, the doll would need to be travelling at the following speeds:

2 seconds: 1800.0000 mph
3 seconds: 1200.0000 mph
4 seconds: 900.0000 mph
5 seconds: 
720.0000 mph

When in actual fact, the doll, boosting, covers a mile every 36.21 seconds.


Damn. Savage. Absolutely savage.



midrange said:
Boberkun said:

Check feedback for Devil's Third and Fatal Frame V. For Bayonetta 2 I mean comments in the internet, not awards.


Well, Devils third is just plain bad. Are you telling me that a meta score of under 50 deserves to be talked about fondly? (No, meta score isn't the final say of good or bad, but with a score around 30, it's a pretty damn good indicator).

fatal frame got shit on because it's download only in the US. Meaning those with an 8 gb wii u can't even play the game. Add in the fact that it didn't get above stellar reviews, and it's certainly not something people will go out of their way for to talk kindly about.

bayonetta 2 got internet hate, but many games get internet hate, not just Nintendo exclusives. Last of us, Uncharted, call of duty, assassins creed, fallout, doom, Titanfall, watch dogs, Destiny, and even major peripherals like the Microsoft Kinect. Once again, there is no conspiracy against the wii u, stop acting as if there is

*Sigh* Did you play it?



Tachikoma said:
sc94597 said:

If we are to assume that on Mira a person travels 50% faster than on Earth (due to lower gravity as has been stated) 

I tested in game, there are three stages of walking speed, standard, run and sprint, the standard walking speed based on a difference calculated by the height of the characters comes in at 2mph, give or take a fraction, which puts the running and sprinting speed to more or less the same as the average, healthy human on earth, the only area where gravity augments the players abilities is with jumping, where a character can jump 4x their height, which calculates down to .3% earths gravity, again give or take a fraction.

The 6 m/s (or 21.6 kph) estimate I gave is actually less than your measurement of 23.46 kph run speed. So we can discard the 50% faster runspeed I guess. I just never thought of 6 m/s being an average run speed of a human on Earth for long distances. Still using your result of 23.46 kph that gives us 11.7 Km. 



sc94597 said:

The 6 m/s (or 21.6 kph) estimate I gave is actually less than your measurement of 23.46 kph run speed. So we can discard the 50% faster runspeed I guess. I just never thought of 6 m/s being an average run speed of a human on Earth for long distances. Still using your result of 23.46 kph that gives us 11.7 Km. 

Which is pretty much in-line with the direct line measurement for the 301km/sq overall map size, since the route you need to take on foot is not direct, as a result of the land shape and obstructions along the way.
Additionally they run on landmass only, horizontally, which does not account for the large band of water space on the left and right of the map, which can be accessed before hitting the barrier.



Tachikoma said:
Goodnightmoon said:

Except that on the video that guy is not making a straight line from A to B in Skyrim, he goes around mountains just as the guy on XCX dont go straight. I´m not saying that the video is accurate though, probably is far from accurate, but your comments look far from accurate too.

So i got out the calculator and did a whole bunch of tests for various speeds and walking/jogging/sprinting speed, and this is what I end up with.

Map is claimed to be 400km/sq

Map with that size is then, 29km wide by 14km tall, so we can calculate, from the direct line speedrun, that:

Claimed Doll speed (Boosting) 116.4204 mph / 187.3605 kmh 
Claimed Doll speed (Standard) 75.1009 mph / 120.8633 kmh

Sprint speed   (Predefined distance ingame) 1.25s A to B = 25.88 mph / 41.65 kph (12.94x speed of walking)
Run speed      (Predefined distance ingame) 2.22 A to B  = 14.58 mph / 23.46 kph (7.29x speed of walking)
Walk speed     (Predefined distance ingame) 16.18 A to B = 2 mph / 3.21 kmh

Based off of the claimed map size versus doll speed in relation to that map size, we can calculate the following for land based doll movement.

Doll Run speed      (Predefined distance ingame) 1.15 = 28.2 mph / 45.4 kph (14.1x speed of walking)
Doll driving speed  (Predefined distance ingame) 0.2s = 161.6 mph / 260 kph (80.8x speed of walking)

What we can do is compare point to point distance on a beach, both in the water boosting, and in the wheeled vehicle mode along the same stretch, the results are that the driving speed is the same as on-water boosting, which means that the speed of 187.36kmh based on a map size of 400km/s, is wrong, and the true speed is actually somewhere around 160km/h, which means that the top to bottom distance is really 7.4288 miles / 11.96 km, thus we can work out from that, that the true width is then roughly 25.2km, making the total map area actually 301.392.

If we take the entire claimed 400km/sq map of XCX and blank out the land then pixel count, we find that only 14.7% of the map is actually land, meaning that the true map size is 14.7% of the claimed 400mk/sq, thus XCX's map playable land is 58.8km/sq (if it were infact 400/sq km)

But if we take the actual map size of 301.39km/sq and apply the same 14.7% land mass calculation what you end up with is a playable land mass of 44.3km/sq, when you consider that GTAV is known to be 30sq miles / 48.3km/sq of playable area (including underwater areas), you see that if you count land-only playable area, GTAV is basically the same size.

It's still impressive, but nowhere near as big as people are clammoring to claim it is. as for their claim of 400km/s, likely at some point or another they allowed you to map-loop (go off the top and enter the bottom), but later on added the barrier walls around the extrimities of the map, thus pulling it's overall size down to 301km/s, however even if they had left the map loop in place, the area beyond the barrier is still just water, so the overall land size would still be around 44km/sq.

I still maintain though that the world feels smaller when you're actually playing, because it is designed really quite barron, the open areas don't scale well with the actual size, in part because of the running speed, and in part because the geometry is low poly when scaled next to a normal player character, when you get a doll the world feels "correctly proportioned", and in turn, ends up feeling 5x-7x smaller as a result.

Oh, and one last thing that bugs me about the ops video, the guy talking claims that the doll in XCX is covering a mile "every couple of seconds". to do that, the doll would need to be travelling at the following speeds:

2 seconds: 1800.0000 mph
3 seconds: 1200.0000 mph
4 seconds: 900.0000 mph
5 seconds: 
720.0000 mph

When in actual fact, the doll, boosting, covers a mile every 36.21 seconds.

Now this makes more sense.

And it confirms you were lying big time when you said Skyrim was bigger than XCX