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Forums - PC Discussion - Valve says Steam Machines are better than gaming consoles

LurkerJ said:
HoloDust said:
Bollocks.

Alienware's $450 Steam machine is the cheapest one, and that 860M inside it is not faster than PS4's GPU (close in some games, but note there really).

It is faster that XOne though, so they're only Half-Lying.

Faster on paper. We don't how well games are gonna run on it. I'd rather have a slower machine with well optimized games. 

To be fair to Gabe, online play is free on steam machines, gaming for 5 years on the PS4 will add $250 to the total amount paid (and $300 to X1?)

But of course that is only if you go for online gaming, I personally rarely to never play online but do keep a psn+ sub for the instant game collection.

"In 2014, PlayStation Plus provided more than $1,300 worth of games in the Instant Game Collection,[31] while competing service Xbox Live provided $584 worth of games.[32]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Instant_Game_Collection_games_%28PAL_region%29

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Games_with_Gold_games

So yeah, playing online might cost money, but they do also give you 4/6 (XBLG/PSN+) games to play on your system each month for that price, and like I said too you can happily own a X1 or PS4 and not pay for online at all, both systems have even taken most non multiplayer stuff out from the Paywalls now, even cloud saves on XB1 are free to use without the sub.



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ganoncrotch said:
LurkerJ said:
HoloDust said:
Bollocks.

Alienware's $450 Steam machine is the cheapest one, and that 860M inside it is not faster than PS4's GPU (close in some games, but note there really).

It is faster that XOne though, so they're only Half-Lying.

Faster on paper. We don't how well games are gonna run on it. I'd rather have a slower machine with well optimized games. 

To be fair to Gabe, online play is free on steam machines, gaming for 5 years on the PS4 will add $250 to the total amount paid (and $300 to X1?)

But of course that is only if you go for online gaming, I personally rarely to never play online but do keep a psn+ sub for the instant game collection.

"In 2014, PlayStation Plus provided more than $1,300 worth of games in the Instant Game Collection,[31] while competing service Xbox Live provided $584 worth of games.[32]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Instant_Game_Collection_games_%28PAL_region%29

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Games_with_Gold_games

So yeah, playing online might cost money, but they do also give you 4/6 (XBLG/PSN+) games to play on your system each month for that price, and like I said too you can happily own a X1 or PS4 and not pay for online at all, both systems have even taken most non multiplayer stuff out from the Paywalls now, even cloud saves on XB1 are free to use without the sub.

On the other hand, with $50-60 you can buy a lot of games if you are willig to wait for sales and offers like humble bundles on PC. 

Anyhow, looks like the cheap steam machines are gonna struggle to run games, even the mid rangers don't sound like a good deal. As I said, benchmarks and faster/slower comparisons are useless when you know games aren't as optimized for the hardware, if you want something cheap and reliable, a console is still the safest bet. 



LurkerJ said:
ganoncrotch said:
LurkerJ said:
HoloDust said:
Bollocks.

Alienware's $450 Steam machine is the cheapest one, and that 860M inside it is not faster than PS4's GPU (close in some games, but note there really).

It is faster that XOne though, so they're only Half-Lying.

Faster on paper. We don't how well games are gonna run on it. I'd rather have a slower machine with well optimized games. 

To be fair to Gabe, online play is free on steam machines, gaming for 5 years on the PS4 will add $250 to the total amount paid (and $300 to X1?)

But of course that is only if you go for online gaming, I personally rarely to never play online but do keep a psn+ sub for the instant game collection.

"In 2014, PlayStation Plus provided more than $1,300 worth of games in the Instant Game Collection,[31] while competing service Xbox Live provided $584 worth of games.[32]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Instant_Game_Collection_games_%28PAL_region%29

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Games_with_Gold_games

So yeah, playing online might cost money, but they do also give you 4/6 (XBLG/PSN+) games to play on your system each month for that price, and like I said too you can happily own a X1 or PS4 and not pay for online at all, both systems have even taken most non multiplayer stuff out from the Paywalls now, even cloud saves on XB1 are free to use without the sub.

On the other hand, with $50-60 you can buy a lot of games if you are willig to wait for sales and offers like humble bundles on PC. 

Anyhow, looks like the cheap steam machines are gonna struggle to run games, even the mid rangers don't sound like a good deal. As I said, benchmarks and faster/slower comparisons are useless when you know games aren't as optimized for the hardware, if you want something cheap and reliable, a console is still the safest bet. 

Oh yeah for sure, for the sake of the $1 humble bundle you can pick up steam keys for a handful of games every few weeks, I know of course there is also a ton more free to play games on the PC side of things but I was just pointing out that online play isn't the only thing that you got from the €50 a year psn/xbl sub.

I love the concept of something like a steam machine but I really have issues seeing the market they are aiming for, I think those who love PC gaming definitely will stay away from them since an educated PC gamer will know how to put together their own custom PC and a Console gamer would be less likely imo to go for a PC with a limited Steam OS rather than make the jump to buying a standard windows PC and at least have full PC functionality. Could be wrong of course, there seems to be a lot of companies putting resources into Steam Machines so they wont have pushed money into something without knowing it'll give them a return.



Why not check me out on youtube and help me on the way to 2k subs over at www.youtube.com/stormcloudlive

ganoncrotch said:
LurkerJ said:

On the other hand, with $50-60 you can buy a lot of games if you are willig to wait for sales and offers like humble bundles on PC. 

Anyhow, looks like the cheap steam machines are gonna struggle to run games, even the mid rangers don't sound like a good deal. As I said, benchmarks and faster/slower comparisons are useless when you know games aren't as optimized for the hardware, if you want something cheap and reliable, a console is still the safest bet. 

Oh yeah for sure, for the sake of the $1 humble bundle you can pick up steam keys for a handful of games every few weeks, I know of course there is also a ton more free to play games on the PC side of things but I was just pointing out that online play isn't the only thing that you got from the €50 a year psn/xbl sub.

I love the concept of something like a steam machine but I really have issues seeing the market they are aiming for, I think those who love PC gaming definitely will stay away from them since an educated PC gamer will know how to put together their own custom PC and a Console gamer would be less likely imo to go for a PC with a limited Steam OS rather than make the jump to buying a standard windows PC and at least have full PC functionality. Could be wrong of course, there seems to be a lot of companies putting resources into Steam Machines so they wont have pushed money into something without knowing it'll give them a return.


Gabe is very clear about the steam machine mission, he wants to knock down the barriers that drives the average Joe away from PC gaming by offering a console-like experience on a ... PC.

Yes, it is true that the PS4 is for hardcore gamers but the fact is, most console buyers are always going to be parents getting something for their kids to play. That's his target.

As for the resources put into steam machines by third parties, they are as minimal as they can get. All companies are using existing technologies collected in a box that's pre-loaded with software offered by Steam. So they don't have to worry a lot about the hardware and they don't have to worry at all about the software. I think the risk of making and selling Steam Machines is minimum, really. 

On another note, usually when a product with multiple models laucnh at the same time, you get a comprehensive table that illustrates the products and the differences between them. Where is my table, Gabe?



Well technically yes, they're better. Because you're spending more money to get a better product. A revolutionary idea!

I can't see these things being very successful. They're basically just corporate-branded pre-built PCs, like an Alienware for example...

Except they're worse, because most use SteamOS (Linux-based) instead of Windows.



"Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

-Samuel Clemens

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greenmedic88 said:
HoloDust said:

http://www.cnet.com/products/alienware-steam-machine-2015/

 

Funny thing is the exact same Alienware (Alpha) with Windows, Steam integration and XBox controller for $400 on Amazon - so I really don't undertand why would anyone pick SteamOS version vs Windows, given how limited in games SteamOS is.

It's a smaller niche audience, but it would be for consumers who want a PC strictly for playing games on it.

I say this as someone in that niche; I maintained multiple PCs including one that had nothing but Steam and games installed on it.

I would imagine many, if not most Steam box buyers would install Windows on it for dual boot purpose like any other PC.

I agree it's niche audience, I personally know few people that are just the audience for it, but as of right now it just doesn't make much sense to pay more for the exactly same product that has tremendously weaker library than Windows version, especially since I don't see AAA publishers doing much to support it at the moment.

Maybe in few years if it picks up...well, steam.



What AAA games run on the steam OS? Oh wait, none.



Breaking news : Sony says PS4 is better than Xbox One !

Other news : Steam machines are dead already. You want a PC ? Buy a PC. You want a console ? Buy a console. Really few people want something with a PC-like price without the power or the AAA games, and even fewer people interested in a console will take the time it needs to understand what the hell you're buying when you spend hundreds of bucks in a Steam machine.



steam machine is a failure, i can get free steam machine downloaded from internet



Lawlight said:
AlfredoTurkey said:


How do you know? Steam, as a service, is so different to what console gamers are use to that I could totally see it doing well. Most console players aren't informed like us. These are your average joes who don't know much. PS1 took off with those guys because it was so radically different and I think an offical Steam console COULD do the same thing. We'll never know though.


PS1 took off because it started to give people more mature games and was an entertainment system as opposed to a toy. Not because it was different for the sake of being different. And plenty of people still prefer to purchase physical copies of games. There is absolutely no reason to buy a Steam machine for a console owner at this point.

Again, you're speaking from the mind of a vastly informed, hardcore gamer. I think people like us fit your description. Average joe's, not so much. The average person just isn't that intelligent. If they are intelligent, they're uninformed and don't care about being informed. They bought consoles because their friends have one or because it's hip or cool. These are the kinds of people who, 2 months before launch, are buying last generation consoles because they don't know the new ones are right around the corner.

Idk, I think if Valve did it right, it would have a 50/50 shot.