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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Official NX Discussion Thread

zorg1000 said:

bdbdbd said:

And I don't if Nintendo really ends up as "entertainment company", as that would mean a big change in how they do business. Not sure if it's the Sony model or the Apple model Nintendo's planning to copy.


They have a successful line of Amiibo figurines/cards, they have upcoming ventures in mobile apps, theme park attractions, feature films and a brand of health/fitness/education products. Nintendo is definitely on track to becoming an entertainment company rather than just a video games company.

I'm like 99.99% sure Nintendo wants to emulate the Apple model rather than the Sony model. The future of Playstation (not in the next few years but perhaps in the coming decade) is going to be streaming content to tons of different products/brands through PS Now while Apple has a self-contained ecosystem that consists of a family of devices (iPod/iPhone/iPad/Apple TV/Apple Watch), that's more of what Nintendo wants.

Nintendo wants to be like a combination of Disney & Apple, the strong IP of Disney with the ecosystem of Apple, if done right I think they have a strong chance of pulling it off.


Disney, Apple and Sony have very different approaches; Disney is purely a content company and distributes it's own production free of platform. Apple is a service-orientated company that distributes others' content on it's own service. Sony is a content and service company that distributes it's own content and others' content via it's own service and others' service (sans Playstation).

The problem with adopting Apple model is Nintendo's strong first party. It's easy for Apple to get content creators on it's own service because it doesn't have a first party that would lead the service/hardware development regardless of what the third parties think. This is also a strength for Google and Microsoft (to an extent). 

The problem with Sony model would be to distribute Nintendo's content to other platforms, meaning that Nintendo wouldn't make content just to boost sales of it's own service.

What is the Nintendo model then? It's the current model used in game consoles. The difference between Atari model and Nintedo model is that the platform holder has control over what content to be released on the said platform.



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

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Ok i said they will make it as powerful as a gaming pc which can last for 10 years because if they do this they can have a longer generation and that would mean nintnedo makes more money and the platforms can do better #. Think about if the console last 10 years and sells 6 million each year thats 60 million while the handheld last 10 years and sells 8 million each year that 80 million. So thats 140 million my nintendo account on dedicated systems and about 100 million my nintendo accounts from mobile, also around 30 million my nintendo accounts from pc. Thats 270 accounts and those will increase nintendo revenue in the long term.



This thread was needed so long ago, glad it´s finally here



                                                                                     

@JEMC: I was going to say that the developers always complain about something - but so it seems that in terms of raw processing power PS4 has a weaker CPU than PS3. So, it really is just fixing the last gen issues with not being able to run games on 1080p/60Hz. Or if they did, polygon count was low.

About Steam I fully agree. But let's see what happens next. Once people start complaining, maybe (doubtful as this is Valve we're talking about) Valve does something about the matter.

I'm just thinking that the GPU would need to output 3D on a TV screen, on AR helmet, handheld, all kinds of stuff with varying degree of hardware effects with the same program code. And it should be forward compatible (like the CPU too). Nintendo's intention wasn't to emulate it via software, but to have compatible hardware.
Of course, they would need to use different SoC on a handheld than on a home console.



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

jason1637 said:
Ok i said they will make it as powerful as a gaming pc which can last for 10 years because if they do this they can have a longer generation and that would mean nintnedo makes more money and the platforms can do better #. Think about if the console last 10 years and sells 6 million each year thats 60 million while the handheld last 10 years and sells 8 million each year that 80 million. So thats 140 million my nintendo account on dedicated systems and about 100 million my nintendo accounts from mobile, also around 30 million my nintendo accounts from pc. Thats 270 accounts and those will increase nintendo revenue in the long term.

For those long-term plans to take off, they would need a decent start and a couple of strong years at the very least. A gaming PC with muscle enough to last ten years into the future would have a high entry cost the first years, the most crucial for Nintendo. If the system doesn't take off at the start, it will never do, just like the WiiU. Nintendo can't count on longevity like PS devices do, because 3rd parties on Nintendo are way more scarce.



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Come join The 2018 Obscure Game Monthly Review Thread.

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jason1637 said:
Ok i said they will make it as powerful as a gaming pc which can last for 10 years because if they do this they can have a longer generation and that would mean nintnedo makes more money and the platforms can do better #. Think about if the console last 10 years and sells 6 million each year thats 60 million while the handheld last 10 years and sells 8 million each year that 80 million. So thats 140 million my nintendo account on dedicated systems and about 100 million my nintendo accounts from mobile, also around 30 million my nintendo accounts from pc. Thats 270 accounts and those will increase nintendo revenue in the long term.


Ur just making up random numbers without coming up with any actual basis on how those numbers will be achieved. 



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

bdbdbd said:
zorg1000 said:


They have a successful line of Amiibo figurines/cards, they have upcoming ventures in mobile apps, theme park attractions, feature films and a brand of health/fitness/education products. Nintendo is definitely on track to becoming an entertainment company rather than just a video games company.

I'm like 99.99% sure Nintendo wants to emulate the Apple model rather than the Sony model. The future of Playstation (not in the next few years but perhaps in the coming decade) is going to be streaming content to tons of different products/brands through PS Now while Apple has a self-contained ecosystem that consists of a family of devices (iPod/iPhone/iPad/Apple TV/Apple Watch), that's more of what Nintendo wants.

Nintendo wants to be like a combination of Disney & Apple, the strong IP of Disney with the ecosystem of Apple, if done right I think they have a strong chance of pulling it off.


Disney, Apple and Sony have very different approaches; Disney is purely a content company and distributes it's own production free of platform. Apple is a service-orientated company that distributes others' content on it's own service. Sony is a content and service company that distributes it's own content and others' content via it's own service and others' service (sans Playstation).

The problem with adopting Apple model is Nintendo's strong first party. It's easy for Apple to get content creators on it's own service because it doesn't have a first party that would lead the service/hardware development regardless of what the third parties think. This is also a strength for Google and Microsoft (to an extent). 

The problem with Sony model would be to distribute Nintendo's content to other platforms, meaning that Nintendo wouldn't make content just to boost sales of it's own service.

What is the Nintendo model then? It's the current model used in game consoles. The difference between Atari model and Nintedo model is that the platform holder has control over what content to be released on the said platform.


When I say a mix of Disney & Apple, I'm talking about having the IP that can be used in a variety of different forms (games, toys, cards, movies, theme parks, etc) similar to Disney and the ecosystem of Apple which has a variety of devices that are linked together by sharing a common OS and sharing most of the same software/services.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

jason1637 said:
Ok i said they will make it as powerful as a gaming pc which can last for 10 years because if they do this they can have a longer generation and that would mean nintnedo makes more money and the platforms can do better #. Think about if the console last 10 years and sells 6 million each year thats 60 million while the handheld last 10 years and sells 8 million each year that 80 million. So thats 140 million my nintendo account on dedicated systems and about 100 million my nintendo accounts from mobile, also around 30 million my nintendo accounts from pc. Thats 270 accounts and those will increase nintendo revenue in the long term.

The problem with that plan is that it is not doable. Tech advances too fast.

Current GPUs and AMD CPUs (and also most ARM processors) are made using the 28nm process, first introduced in 2011, but right now we're in the middle of a transition, going from the 28nm process to a 16nm one. What that change means for a GPU is to double the performance per watt ratio. A 100W GPU at 28nm will be half as powerful than a 100W GPU at 16nm, and that's without counting the improvements that a new architecture brings with it that will make that gap even bigger.

To make it clear, just look what happened during the last transition: check this comparison of the HD 6970 launched in late 2010 using the tried and tested 40nm process and the HD 7970 with the, back then, new and still not mature (so it had its flaws an couldn't be pushed to the limit) 28nm process. And now compare the 6970 to the 290X made in a mature 28nm. (If you want to argue that this only happens with the top end cards, compare the 6870 vs. 7870 and the 6870 vs. 280X) And that's in the span of 5 years, imagine in 10!

And that's a bigger problem than you think because if Nintendo plans to launch NX by the end of 2016 or early 2017, they will probably have to use the "old" 28nm process because Apple and other Co. will pay more to get the first 16nm chips.

In ten years, the NX will be obsolete, like a PS2 compared to a PS4 or worse.

 

bdbdbd said:
@JEMC: I was going to say that the developers always complain about something - but so it seems that in terms of raw processing power PS4 has a weaker CPU than PS3. So, it really is just fixing the last gen issues with not being able to run games on 1080p/60Hz. Or if they did, polygon count was low.

About Steam I fully agree. But let's see what happens next. Once people start complaining, maybe (doubtful as this is Valve we're talking about) Valve does something about the matter.

I'm just thinking that the GPU would need to output 3D on a TV screen, on AR helmet, handheld, all kinds of stuff with varying degree of hardware effects with the same program code. And it should be forward compatible (like the CPU too). Nintendo's intention wasn't to emulate it via software, but to have compatible hardware.
Of course, they would need to use different SoC on a handheld than on a home console.

Luckily, Nintendo's past GPUs weren't too different than what the market had at the time, it's just the CPUs with the IBM architecture that were different. I'll be very surprised, and disappointed, if Nintendo keeps using IBM chips for NX.

And Nintendo doesn't need a special GPU to take care of all that, any GPU can do it as long as it has enough power. But a more powerful GPU is also a more expensive and power hungry GPU, so there's always the cost/performance fight.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

bdbdbd said:
zorg1000 said:


They have a successful line of Amiibo figurines/cards, they have upcoming ventures in mobile apps, theme park attractions, feature films and a brand of health/fitness/education products. Nintendo is definitely on track to becoming an entertainment company rather than just a video games company.

I'm like 99.99% sure Nintendo wants to emulate the Apple model rather than the Sony model. The future of Playstation (not in the next few years but perhaps in the coming decade) is going to be streaming content to tons of different products/brands through PS Now while Apple has a self-contained ecosystem that consists of a family of devices (iPod/iPhone/iPad/Apple TV/Apple Watch), that's more of what Nintendo wants.

Nintendo wants to be like a combination of Disney & Apple, the strong IP of Disney with the ecosystem of Apple, if done right I think they have a strong chance of pulling it off.


Disney, Apple and Sony have very different approaches; Disney is purely a content company and distributes it's own production free of platform. Apple is a service-orientated company that distributes others' content on it's own service. Sony is a content and service company that distributes it's own content and others' content via it's own service and others' service (sans Playstation).

The problem with adopting Apple model is Nintendo's strong first party. It's easy for Apple to get content creators on it's own service because it doesn't have a first party that would lead the service/hardware development regardless of what the third parties think. This is also a strength for Google and Microsoft (to an extent). 

The problem with Sony model would be to distribute Nintendo's content to other platforms, meaning that Nintendo wouldn't make content just to boost sales of it's own service.

What is the Nintendo model then? It's the current model used in game consoles. The difference between Atari model and Nintedo model is that the platform holder has control over what content to be released on the said platform.

Exactly, Disney is very different. I don't have to purchase a "Disney platform" to enjoy Star Wars or Iron Man if that's all I want and I don't give two craps about Mickey Mouse or Pixar movies. With Nintendo I have to buy a propietary set of Nintendo hardware even if I only care about say Metroid and don't give a hoot about Super Mario or Kirby or Yoshi or Donkey Kong or Pikachu. 

Nintendo is never going to be Apple either, they can't even hang with Sony right now, Apple is waaaaaaay out of their weight class.  

Also I don't think Sony is in any rush to ditch dedicated home consoles for streaming services since they're doing just fine and dandy kicking both Nintendo and MS' butts, I don't see why they would want to alter that dynamic in any way. Barring a controller miracle and Sony doing something very stupid (like making a $600 console), all Nintendo and MS have proven in the last 15 years is they can't beat a Playstation console. 

Nintendo can make good money as a top smartphone game producer and augment that with OK profits from NX and increased licensing of their properties though ... but taking on the likes of Disney or Apple, lol, forget it. I think Playstation 5 will likely still trample the console NX unless Sony does something really stupid. 



I am glad there is an NX thread so I can follow all news and discussions here. New console times is always too exciting!

Now on NX... I work for a very big networking company that has ties to Nintendo, mostly I have seen BoMs for NOA... Believe me when I say, I have done my best researching internal information to find anything about NX... No luck yet... But I will keep the good fight!!



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