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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - If you think about it, the original xbox was ahead of its time besides xbox live.

Abun on 14 October 2015
DonFerrari said:
zero129 said:
DonFerrari said:
zero129 said:

No compared to the Saturn the PS1 was easy to develope for. also they done it so that devs couldnt max out the consoles and in return that made it hard for pc devs or did you not see that quote up there from kaz?.

MS allowed it to be easy for PC devs since coding for the xbox was so much like coding for a pc very different from the PS2 and PS3.


I saw, and it says it would make it take longer to max out the console. Not specifically about prohibit or make specially worse for PC devs... it affected them and all 3rd parties... so your point is that by making it harder for everyone they were focusing on making it worse just for PC?

And Dreamcast being alien design don't make PS1 easy, just easier... and since PS2 released before Xbox and GC you can't say they decided to make it harder than both, just hard... so is there any purpose to this or just complain about sony?

What im saying must be going right over your head at this stage cos you just dont seem to be getting it.

Where did i say that Sony made it hard for "Just" Pc developers??, my words where "MS made it easy for PC developers" . No point in trying to base your argument around something that doesnt exist..

And the Dreamcast was easy to develope for since it was running an MS OS, so i dont know where your getting that from..

And yes it was easier on Sony themselfs, since they knew their own hardware! and was the ones making the SDK's but shipping out PS2 SDK's to western devs with japan manuals and being a few updates behind compared to some of the japanese studios didnt help western devs with developing for the PS2 also..

As for your last remark.. You shouldnt ask someone a question if when you dont like facts or their answer your just going to downplay it as "Simply complaining" .


In this thread you have offended another user and me twice with pedantic "must be going right over your head" and which fact I didn 't like and your suggestion of fanboyism to me and the other user... and what purpose does that hold?

this is what you said

But like i said i never said that no PC ports ever came to a Sony Console. I said Sony made it harder on PC devs with the PS2 and PS3 where as MS paved the way by making it super easy on them.

MS allowed it to be easy for PC devs since coding for the xbox was so much like coding for a pc very different from the PS2 and PS3.

So yes, you were implying by some reason that sony was focusig on make difficult to PC devs and MS easier... the Kaz quote and your explaining shows that it clearly was harder for all no focus on PC dev, but you tried to defend the other point, so please decide yourself and be more respectfull.

And I mixed DC with Saturn, which also come after PS1, so Sony difficult to dev for have no relation with their competitors or making it harder on specific devs or region of the globe... and yes X360 made Sony focus on making PS4 easier.

He is just full of contradictons and false comments.The PSX was acutally easy to develop games for on CD-ROM, which PC was using and it made it easy for PC devs to put games on consoles compared to the Sega Satrun,which was not developer friendly.Not being able to port the game easily doe snot make it hard to develop for it just means you have to build the game from scratch like devs did witht he PS2.The 360 aloowed for PC game sto be easily ported between platforms,not easy for PC devs to put tgeir games on consoles.that is actually the reason for developer laziness and broken games as they are no longer taking the time to make sure each version of the game or the games themselves are good quality.We never had broken games like this before the 360.



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DonFerrari on 14 October 2015
Abun said:
DonFerrari said:
zero129 said:

What im saying must be going right over your head at this stage cos you just dont seem to be getting it.

Where did i say that Sony made it hard for "Just" Pc developers??, my words where "MS made it easy for PC developers" . No point in trying to base your argument around something that doesnt exist..

And the Dreamcast was easy to develope for since it was running an MS OS, so i dont know where your getting that from..

And yes it was easier on Sony themselfs, since they knew their own hardware! and was the ones making the SDK's but shipping out PS2 SDK's to western devs with japan manuals and being a few updates behind compared to some of the japanese studios didnt help western devs with developing for the PS2 also..

As for your last remark.. You shouldnt ask someone a question if when you dont like facts or their answer your just going to downplay it as "Simply complaining" .


In this thread you have offended another user and me twice with pedantic "must be going right over your head" and which fact I didn 't like and your suggestion of fanboyism to me and the other user... and what purpose does that hold?

this is what you said

But like i said i never said that no PC ports ever came to a Sony Console. I said Sony made it harder on PC devs with the PS2 and PS3 where as MS paved the way by making it super easy on them.

MS allowed it to be easy for PC devs since coding for the xbox was so much like coding for a pc very different from the PS2 and PS3.

So yes, you were implying by some reason that sony was focusig on make difficult to PC devs and MS easier... the Kaz quote and your explaining shows that it clearly was harder for all no focus on PC dev, but you tried to defend the other point, so please decide yourself and be more respectfull.

And I mixed DC with Saturn, which also come after PS1, so Sony difficult to dev for have no relation with their competitors or making it harder on specific devs or region of the globe... and yes X360 made Sony focus on making PS4 easier.

He is just full of contradictons and false comments.The PSX was acutally easy to develop games for on CD-ROM, which PC was using and it made it easy for PC devs to put games on consoles compared to the Sega Satrun,which was not developer friendly.Not being able to port the game easily doe snot make it hard to develop for it just means you have to build the game from scratch like devs did witht he PS2.The 360 aloowed for PC game sto be easily ported between platforms,not easy for PC devs to put tgeir games on consoles.that is actually the reason for developer laziness and broken games as they are no longer taking the time to make sure each version of the game or the games themselves are good quality.We never had broken games like this before the 360.


Not sure about the causation and correlation...

Maybe being able to patch or bigger complexity played a bigger role than X360 being easy and allowing laziness... we won't be able to say for sure.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Netty on 14 October 2015

The original Xbox was way ahead of its time in resolution. It actually had some games that ran in 720p, like the Xbox One.

Also, having such a PC-like architecture won Xbox a lot of PC developers, which set up the Xbox 360 nicely in terms of developer support.



HoloDust on 14 October 2015

"Halo, Half Life, Counter Strike, Doom, Morrow Wind (Besetheda Games), ect. You can trace the most popular games today to the original xbox in some sort of way"

Actually, you can trace those popular games back to PC, but important thing that MS did with Xbox is to give western devs console that was very familiar with what they've been used to on PC, so they can easily expand their market.



Abun on 14 October 2015
DonFerrari said:
Abun said:
DonFerrari said:
zero129 said:

What im saying must be going right over your head at this stage cos you just dont seem to be getting it.

Where did i say that Sony made it hard for "Just" Pc developers??, my words where "MS made it easy for PC developers" . No point in trying to base your argument around something that doesnt exist..

And the Dreamcast was easy to develope for since it was running an MS OS, so i dont know where your getting that from..

And yes it was easier on Sony themselfs, since they knew their own hardware! and was the ones making the SDK's but shipping out PS2 SDK's to western devs with japan manuals and being a few updates behind compared to some of the japanese studios didnt help western devs with developing for the PS2 also..

As for your last remark.. You shouldnt ask someone a question if when you dont like facts or their answer your just going to downplay it as "Simply complaining" .


In this thread you have offended another user and me twice with pedantic "must be going right over your head" and which fact I didn 't like and your suggestion of fanboyism to me and the other user... and what purpose does that hold?

this is what you said

But like i said i never said that no PC ports ever came to a Sony Console. I said Sony made it harder on PC devs with the PS2 and PS3 where as MS paved the way by making it super easy on them.

MS allowed it to be easy for PC devs since coding for the xbox was so much like coding for a pc very different from the PS2 and PS3.

So yes, you were implying by some reason that sony was focusig on make difficult to PC devs and MS easier... the Kaz quote and your explaining shows that it clearly was harder for all no focus on PC dev, but you tried to defend the other point, so please decide yourself and be more respectfull.

And I mixed DC with Saturn, which also come after PS1, so Sony difficult to dev for have no relation with their competitors or making it harder on specific devs or region of the globe... and yes X360 made Sony focus on making PS4 easier.

He is just full of contradictons and false comments.The PSX was acutally easy to develop games for on CD-ROM, which PC was using and it made it easy for PC devs to put games on consoles compared to the Sega Satrun,which was not developer friendly.Not being able to port the game easily doe snot make it hard to develop for it just means you have to build the game from scratch like devs did witht he PS2.The 360 aloowed for PC game sto be easily ported between platforms,not easy for PC devs to put tgeir games on consoles.that is actually the reason for developer laziness and broken games as they are no longer taking the time to make sure each version of the game or the games themselves are good quality.We never had broken games like this before the 360.


Not sure about the causation and correlation...

Maybe being able to patch or bigger complexity played a bigger role than X360 being easy and allowing laziness... we won't be able to say for sure.


I can agree with that.



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Snoopy on 14 October 2015
HoloDust said:
"Halo, Half Life, Counter Strike, Doom, Morrow Wind (Besetheda Games), ect. You can trace the most popular games today to the original xbox in some sort of way"

Actually, you can trace those popular games back to PC, but important thing that MS did with Xbox is to give western devs console that was very familiar with what they've been used to on PC, so they can easily expand their market.


Thats what I meant in terms of consoles. Really great thing MS did for America.



Abun on 15 October 2015
zero129 said:
Abun said:
zero129 said:
Abun said:
zero129 said:

Yes cos of the design of the systems with PS2+3 made them super hard to develope for and that was for a reason. To make the systems last longer.

It payed off with the PS2 since it become such a massive success thanks to coming off the back of the PS1 and Sonys great marketing but in a way it bited Sony or should i say Kaz in the ass with the PS3 even his comment here" "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?" explained Hirai. LINK: http://www.cnet.com/news/sony-ps3-is-hard-to-develop-for-on-purpose/ " shows that they made it hard for a reason.

and i know Sony would of continued that trend with the PS4 if it wasnt for the 360 being such a success and gaining so many developers thanks to its ease compared to the PS3.

You don't have any idea what you are talking about and try to come off as you sre speaking facts when you are dead wrong lol.I played several PC games on the PSX and that is a fact that it started the trend of PC devs putting their games on consoles.youc an not disporve that and the argument was aout PC games,bit FPS only in which the N64 popularized on consoles and offline co-op paved the way for online gaming on consoles.

I think your a bit mixed up here or what im saying is going over your head.

Also it seems to me like your the one speaking facts when your wrong on a number of things..

Where did i say that no PC game ever came to a Sony platform?? they did, but they never became console sellers like they are today and in most cases didnt even resemble the games they came from Call of Duty made by a console developer on consoles and not the original dev. With GTA Rockstar imo has always been more of a console developer and im pretty sure GTA was never a once PC exclusive. Baldures Gate on PS2 was nothing like its PC version and the list goes on.

But like i said i never said that no PC ports ever came to a Sony Console. I said Sony made it harder on PC devs with the PS2 and PS3 where as MS paved the way by making it super easy on them.

Also your stating your opinion as facts when you say "Not as good is laughable,because they were better but they did not have the impact because Sony did not need them to sell their console"

If them other FPS games that your talking about was as good as Halo is on consoles imo they would still be around and still be big today.

Also even if Sony didnt need them (So then Sony only needed FPS after they seen how big they where thanks to MS with Halo?? is this what your saying??)their publishers and devs needed to sell them!. Kinda the same way Call of Duty didnt need Sony or MS to become huge they needed a good game MW1.

Also if them other FPS games your talking about was better they would of had higher ratings and sold better then Halo did since they had a much larger install base. But like i said its all down to opinions its just that my opinion seems to go along with a much larger precentage then the one your stating as fact..

Also i credit Goldeneye with being what made FPS work on consoles and Halo worked on that to improve it with Halo 2 making Online FPS on consoles huge unless this is something you want to denie too?.

As usual you are full of contradcitons.Those other FPS did not sell better or get better ratings because the PS2 had better games to offer while the Xbox only had Halo which got hyped because the Xbox needed it for survival.See my point now?Nothing you said went over my head and I just pointed out how off you were with claiming that the Xbox is responsible for FPS being popular or bringing PC games/devs to consoles.Both are wrong and you have not rebuttal for my facts.

Thats all well and good, but it still doesnt answer my question to you, funny and it was even in the same post you quoted and in a way, once again shows how your repeating your self since the very same quote from me in that post also answers what you just wrote once again "Also even if Sony didnt need them (So then Sony only needed FPS after they seen how big they where thanks to MS with Halo?? is this what your saying??)their publishers and devs needed to sell them!. Kinda the same way Call of Duty didnt need Sony or MS to become huge they needed a good game MW1.

You completely ignore the part about PC.What I said about the FPS was my opinion and that is not what the argument is about.



Abun on 15 October 2015
HoloDust said:
"Halo, Half Life, Counter Strike, Doom, Morrow Wind (Besetheda Games), ect. You can trace the most popular games today to the original xbox in some sort of way"

Actually, you can trace those popular games back to PC, but important thing that MS did with Xbox is to give western devs console that was very familiar with what they've been used to on PC, so they can easily expand their market.


Half Life traces back to the PS2 as welll as Baldor's Gate.PC games started coming to consoles during the PSX and Doom was on the SNES long before there was an Xbox.The most popular games trace back to PlayStation and some a Nintendo platform such as FPS.Companies like Eidos,EA,Activison,Ubisoft and Take Two all got huge from the PlayStation console which lead to Western devs being where they are at.All Western devs are not PC developers.The Xbox did nothing for Western developers or PC devs when you look at the history.Some of you people don't know gaming history I see.I grew up during that time period and remember well when Western devs expanded and when PC games started coming to console as did the people around me.



DonFerrari on 15 October 2015
zero129 said:
DonFerrari said:
zero129 said:
DonFerrari said:
zero129 said:

No compared to the Saturn the PS1 was easy to develope for. also they done it so that devs couldnt max out the consoles and in return that made it hard for pc devs or did you not see that quote up there from kaz?.

MS allowed it to be easy for PC devs since coding for the xbox was so much like coding for a pc very different from the PS2 and PS3.


I saw, and it says it would make it take longer to max out the console. Not specifically about prohibit or make specially worse for PC devs... it affected them and all 3rd parties... so your point is that by making it harder for everyone they were focusing on making it worse just for PC?

And Dreamcast being alien design don't make PS1 easy, just easier... and since PS2 released before Xbox and GC you can't say they decided to make it harder than both, just hard... so is there any purpose to this or just complain about sony?

What im saying must be going right over your head at this stage cos you just dont seem to be getting it.

Where did i say that Sony made it hard for "Just" Pc developers??, my words where "MS made it easy for PC developers" . No point in trying to base your argument around something that doesnt exist..

And the Dreamcast was easy to develope for since it was running an MS OS, so i dont know where your getting that from..

And yes it was easier on Sony themselfs, since they knew their own hardware! and was the ones making the SDK's but shipping out PS2 SDK's to western devs with japan manuals and being a few updates behind compared to some of the japanese studios didnt help western devs with developing for the PS2 also..

As for your last remark.. You shouldnt ask someone a question if when you dont like facts or their answer your just going to downplay it as "Simply complaining" .


In this thread you have offended another user and me twice with pedantic "must be going right over your head" and which fact I didn 't like and your suggestion of fanboyism to me and the other user... and what purpose does that hold?

this is what you said

But like i said i never said that no PC ports ever came to a Sony Console. I said Sony made it harder on PC devs with the PS2 and PS3 where as MS paved the way by making it super easy on them.

MS allowed it to be easy for PC devs since coding for the xbox was so much like coding for a pc very different from the PS2 and PS3.

So yes, you were implying by some reason that sony was focusig on make difficult to PC devs and MS easier... the Kaz quote and your explaining shows that it clearly was harder for all no focus on PC dev, but you tried to defend the other point, so please decide yourself and be more respectfull.

And I mixed DC with Saturn, which also come after PS1, so Sony difficult to dev for have no relation with their competitors or making it harder on specific devs or region of the globe... and yes X360 made Sony focus on making PS4 easier.

This will be my last reply to you on this as its going no where. And yes if after i have explained my meaning to you after you asked me time and time again only to keep having you pushing it down the back of my kneck that i meant something else then imo that is a clear sign of my meaning going over your head..

First off i never once implied that you are a fan of any system so i dont know where your pulling this from. And you also say that im imploying fanboyism on abuns part.. So such great quotes from him as "I only trust Sony to make a Emu" "Xbox ruined game development by making it easier for devs" etc doesnt imploy anything to you at all??. even now his latest bunch of posts are all directed at me without a single one of them having a fact and everyone of his posts to me has been him saying im full of false comments and saying MS and PC and western devs are whats wrong with gaming. But good job on you for missing all his great classic comments and trying to use that to say im the one insulting someone..

2nd. So your telling me that before the PS2 launched if your a western PC dev and you get a PS2 SDK that comes with a japanes manual and is not even the most updated version of the SDK that you dont have a clear disadvantage compared to Sony 1st party or japanes devs??. So yes clearly MS's system was more friendly to a western dev and even more so to a PC dev..

 

 


About the point over head. It's personal attack independently of reason, just denotes the incapacity to debate and explain.

 

1) i don't deny or confirm his atitude, but accusation of fanboyism is against rules.

2) never denied the difficult, just your inference that it was on purpose against pc devs as you claim. And games being made in english (that alienates 70% of population of the world) is equivalent and we kept playing and companies may pay to translate manual. Naughty Dog used manuals in japanase?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari on 15 October 2015
Netty said:
The original Xbox was way ahead of its time in resolution. It actually had some games that ran in 720p, like the Xbox One.

Also, having such a PC-like architecture won Xbox a lot of PC developers, which set up the Xbox 360 nicely in terms of developer support.


I may be wrong, but gran turismo 4 run up to 1080i. And resolution is just natural evolution not being ahead of it's time.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."