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Forums - Movies & TV - So is Blu-Ray 21st century LaserDisc?

bunchanumbers said:
AlfredoTurkey said:


How so? I can rent any new movie physically for like, $1.20 at a Redbox. No subscription needed. I can also spend $15 dollars on a copy of a classic movie ONCE, and never have to pay for it again for the rest of my life. 

Physical is cheaper. The illusion that steaming is cheaper is just that, an illusion. For one years worth of Netflix and Hulu Plus, it will cost you 192 dollars. Do you honestly think I'd spend 192 dollars on Red Box rentals? haha


That's great, but you're still depending on a blu ray player to make it happen. Streaming can be taken everywhere without doing questionable things like ripping movies and the like. Streaming can be done from nearly any device these days and it is just too easy. Being tied down to a blu ray player is kinda archaic these days.

You're not being archaic, if your goal is to watch the movie at home. And ripping is only questionable because companies said so. Ethically, it's fine. As long as it's your stuff. But since twats exist in the world. Companies have to be dicks. All my stuff is ripped, and I can use it anywhere outside. And Apple doesn't reset my shit, when I change episode titles, or music. If my account is compromised. Nothings in there to care about, except apps. At home, I use a disc. I don't need to rent, and have thounsands of movies/shows avalible to me. I just buy the ones I want, and I'm done.

The other aspect for streaming is just people getting more and more lazy to change out a disc. The only real thing that slows down disc swapping, is the locked out menu controls from dick companies, at startup. AVGN the movie is the perfect example of how you handle a disc. The menu boots up. No trailers. No company logos anywhere. I get the benefits from both worlds. And not forced to deal with retarded licencing BS with Netflix. Or a pointless monthly fee. I see Netflix as a forced "package" that cable companies do too. Out of 150 stations, I watch 10 or 15. I'm wasting monthly money. For 130 I don't watch ever.

I have around 200 DVD/BD's in the course of 14 years I bought them. Add up the yearly cost of Netflix over 14 years (ignoring inflation & random price hikes). VS the cost I just used buy them once. I buy like 5-8 things per year (Lots of sale prices). You get why I don't like streaming. If you want to argue room space, fine.



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bunchanumbers said:
AlfredoTurkey said:


How so? I can rent any new movie physically for like, $1.20 at a Redbox. No subscription needed. I can also spend $15 dollars on a copy of a classic movie ONCE, and never have to pay for it again for the rest of my life. 

Physical is cheaper. The illusion that steaming is cheaper is just that, an illusion. For one years worth of Netflix and Hulu Plus, it will cost you 192 dollars. Do you honestly think I'd spend 192 dollars on Red Box rentals? haha


That's great, but you're still depending on a blu ray player to make it happen. Streaming can be taken everywhere without doing questionable things like ripping movies and the like. Streaming can be done from nearly any device these days and it is just too easy. Being tied down to a blu ray player is kinda archaic these days.


Yes but watching someting like The Godfather on a little mobile screen at work in a break room is akin having sex with a super model while laying on broken glass. 

It's not really that much of a selling point imo.



bunchanumbers said:


That's great, but you're still depending on a blu ray player to make it happen. Streaming can be taken everywhere without doing questionable things like ripping movies and the like. Streaming can be done from nearly any device these days and it is just too easy. Being tied down to a blu ray player is kinda archaic these days.

I couldn't do so at my mother's place even if I wanted to, as the bandwith there is too low. Even youtube non-HD Vids are problematic at times. So Blu-Rays are the natural choice there, at least until the landlines get upgraded.

Also, I love to watch the boni on the Discs, like outtakes, making-of, commentary tracks and the like. You don't get these on streaming sites.

Not that I dislike straming, as that's not true. I got Netflix the day it got released in Luxembourg and have over 100 movies and series on my playlist. I'd prefer them as a physical version, but that would be way above my budget. Besides, I wouldn't get to see series like Dardevil without Netflix



DVD still has a lock on the cheapest, most accessible format category. That alone guaranteed its survival.

BD can never be compared to LD because LD remained a small niche market from its peak to its demise. The only market where LD ever came anything close to a mainstream format was in Japan. Cost was prohibitive; there were never any sub $10 re-issues because the format itself was expensive to produce. Size and storage was another limiting factor; not convenient at all. Essentially it was LPs to CDs. No portable players, and storage for larger collections was an issue.

BD on the other hand can be found anywhere DVDs are sold as a higher quality format. Virtually all new movies are published and distributed on BD. If a new movie only sees a DVD release, it's usually because the movie was a low budget, direct to video production.

I imagine studios will stop distributing movies on BD when they stop distributing retail format movies. I have a hard time envisioning DVD and 4K BD distribution only taking place.



BraLoD said:
Bofferbrauer said:
BraLoD said:
Well, I'll just throw it here, but I really wanted to see the HVD actually being a thing.

You'll get at least Blu-Ray 4K pretty soon, first discs are expected for the Holiday season this year


Well, the thing is that HVD was based in a 3D way of recording and reading data, it was a really cool concept and I really wanted to see it being a thing, 4K BD is cool and all, but I wanted to see a new format like that, it was really exciting.

It might still happen. Japan is already working on 8k 120fps and a blu-ray disc is not going to cut it.
4K blu-ray can do upto 128 mbps (which is still only half of what a 2K cinema master can go upto) with 100 GB discs.  The actual transfer rate will be lower as 128mbps is about 1GB per minute and max 100 minutes per disc is a bit low. You can add more layers yet you can't physically spin the disc faster, 8K will need a new disc format or other solution.

As comparison, blu-ray can do upto 54mbps. 4K blu-ray is only about twice as fast yet h.265 is also about twice as efficient. 4K netflix runs at 15.6 mbps, also in h.265 so slightly exceeed the average blu-ray video quality. (blu-ray tends to average around 25mbps for video) However you still need blu-ray for the lossless DTS HD-MA soundtrack.

Streaming doesn't look so bad at those low bitrates, yet it gets blurry a lot faster in action scenes. I use Netflix for tv content, way too expensive to buy whole seasons on blu-ray. Yet when I put a movie on after it's always an eye opener how much sharper and more vibrant everything looks. (That's on a projector though, the difference would be a lot smaller on a tablet I assume)

Here's a comparison between 4K Netflix and Blu-ray (1080p)
https://www.avforums.com/article/is-4k-netflix-better-than-blu-ray.10589
So, is 4K Netflix an upgrade over Blu-ray? Well, you win ever so slightly on video and you lose a bit on audio but it’s looking more and more like we need a physical format to drive home the resolution advantages, whilst maintaining lossless audio codecs. But that’s ignoring the vital factors of price and convenience. As part of a £6.99 monthly subscription, you can access both seasons of House of Cards and all five of Breaking Bad, which is quite simply ridiculous value and the costs of the equivalent Blu-rays would be magnitudes greater.

I assume the situation will be the same with 8K, 8K streaming matching 4K blu-ray, New 8K discs needed for the actual benefits.



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BraLoD said:
Bofferbrauer said:

You'll get at least Blu-Ray 4K pretty soon, first discs are expected for the Holiday season this year


Well, the thing is that HVD was based in a 3D way of recording and reading data, it was a really cool concept and I really wanted to see it being a thing, 4K BD is cool and all, but I wanted to see a new format like that, it was really exciting.

The problem with HVD, was always going to be mass adoption.  And the only way to force that is to get the film industry in on it, and the absolute LAST thing they want right now is to do another transition when they haven't even shelved DVD yet.  Printing on 3 different formats is way way too costly. 



BraLoD said:
mornelithe said:

The problem with HVD, was always going to be mass adoption.  And the only way to force that is to get the film industry in on it, and the absolute LAST thing they want right now is to do another transition when they haven't even shelved DVD yet.  Printing on 3 different formats is way way too costly. 


That and price.

BD was already called for being expensive and HVD woulb be much more.

Price will come down with mass production, it was indeed too soon after blu-ray.
There are new technologies in the works already, HVD might simply be skipped.
http://www.dailytech.com/Scientists+Create+360+TB+Superman+Crystal+Discs/article31933.htm
http://www.tweaktown.com/news/40973/australian-university-pioneers-dvd-with-1-000-tb-capacity/index.html
It all depends if it can be made fit for mass production and if the read speed is fast enough.



BraLoD said:
SvennoJ said:

Price will come down with mass production, it was indeed too soon after blu-ray.
There are new technologies in the works already, HVD might simply be skipped.
http://www.dailytech.com/Scientists+Create+360+TB+Superman+Crystal+Discs/article31933.htm
http://www.tweaktown.com/news/40973/australian-university-pioneers-dvd-with-1-000-tb-capacity/index.html
It all depends if it can be made fit for mass production and if the read speed is fast enough.

So there is a 5D disc in the works? Wow
But the Archival Disc is the next one, it's not aimed at end consumers right now, but it could be in the future.

I guess that all depends on the read speed. Naming it archival disk doesn't sound encouraging for fast access. It is supposed to launch this year but the last reports were from March 2014. There is this rather brute force solution lol
http://venturebeat.com/2015/03/10/sony-whips-up-a-box-to-store-1-5-petabytes-of-data-on-10000-blu-ray-discs/



If anything, maybe next media format would be what we last expect. SD cards are already getting into the house of hundred of gb ( ultra-expensive, nowadays). But if they decide to use a memory card for holding the 8k files ? From now, til 4k get some adoption , til 8k, there should be at least 10 years in the process.



invetedlotus123 said:
If anything, maybe next media format would be what we last expect. SD cards are already getting into the house of hundred of gb ( ultra-expensive, nowadays). But if they decide to use a memory card for holding the 8k files ? From now, til 4k get some adoption , til 8k, there should be at least 10 years in the process.

I doubt that SD cards will ever be as efficient price wise as a disk. You don't have the overhead of circuitry with a disk.

I imagine that at some point the disk will be stationary and the laser will be the part that moves by mirrors.
Combine http://www.dailytech.com/Scientists+Create+360+TB+Superman+Crystal+Discs/article31933.htm with http://www.iflscience.com/technology/worlds-fastest-camera-takes-44-trillion-frames-second, direct a laser beam into a cube and analyze the light that comes out to retrieve your data.

Although I see optical holographic storage is already old news
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2014/feb/27/data-stored-in-magnetic-holograms
Maybe SD cards based on that technique will be the future.