I never played Uncharted 3 MP except for the beta IIRC. Last of Us though, I played tons of on PS3 and it was the first PS4 game I played. I initially enjoyed the PS4 MP as much as I did the PS3, but it quickly unraveled. Due to the DLC.

The main issue with the DLC in LoU is it's too good. There are too many weapons that are top of the line or flat out overpowered. There are a lot of perks that are REALLY good. Sure, some of these weapons and perks you can access for free in premade classes, but you cannot customize them. You don't get near the advantage someone who actually bought the content gets.

Bomb Expert 3 allows you to literally throw a smoke bomb at your feet and you get no disadvantage. There is a perk that can give you different perks at a fraction of the cost those perks would normally take. The crossbow and combat shotgun are basically free kills.

Because these things are so good, it's actually shifted the dynamics of the MP from a slow paced, tactical shooter with incredibly unique gameplay, to a generic run n gun third person shooter. You don't really need to scavenge as much for parts and ammo if your crossbow kills 90% of people too dumb to hoard health packs. You don't need to take the time to build a well balanced loadout if your super perk gives you access to a chunk of abilities. You don't have to sneak in for a silent execution of a downed opponent if you have a super quick execution perk purchased and equipped. It's garbage.

I don't blame ND though, I blame Sony. They pressured Zipper to make SOCOM 4 a CoD clone and then shut them down when the game was garbage. They rushed out Twisted Metal knowing the online was a broken mess. They infest ND games with ridiculous amounts of microtransaction DLC for a $60 game, especially concerning because a lot of it is pay2win bullshit.

It's sad to see you get "ND Points" for preordering Uncharted 4. Thanks for confirming to me that I need only rent the title, ND.

What's the difference between Spemanig and me? :/ I play MK with friends, and our friend owning the Wii  U had to buy the DLC for us to use the new content, and it bugs me to ask my friend to pay more for us (even if we bring food or drinks, of course). We play Smash also, but not enough to buy the DLC so I can't talk about it. What is useless here? 

Like I said, TLOU's micro transaction are not pay to win and don't bother me when I play the MP. I liked their SP DLC, Left Behind. So I trust them about Uncharted 4. Maybe I'll be wrong about it, but they didn't do anything until now to lose my trust. 

And I'm just saying that blaming ND for the failure of consumers to safeguard the market from poor practices, is their fault, not Naughty Dogs.  And I said the same thing about EA's program, and virtually all other pay to win models, or models where they just feed your garbage cosmetic shit. (Mainly because I remember before the 360/PS3, where we could do this stuff on our own via modding).

It doesn't affect me but this is wrong. Didn't realise how bad it's got.

That doesn't really solve the problem, though. Just because you don't buy it doesn't mean XxDuDeBrOxX_69 and his crew don't buy it and then you're fucked because suddenly they have a pretty big advantage over you. If this were normal cosmetic microtransactions I would agree wholeheartedly with this stance (as I did with Evolve) but it's not typical, it's pay2win shit.

exactly.  Well i play enough MP to get the trophies actually

Are you sure we play the same TLOU MP game? Really? 

I use sometimes the Bomb expert 3 skill. Yes, it's good. Yes, it allows me to escape certain death or to get a kill with a smoke bomb, especially when I'm 1v1. Yes, I like it. But it cost a lot to equip, like all level 3 skills. My Bomb expert 3 build has one weapon and 2 skills only, so no, it's not overpowered. I like other builds with more skills too, and they're just as powerful. It's about taste. 

Same thing about the shotgun and the crossbow. The crossbow is even a bonus weapon, and you have to buy it on the map, no? (and it's not cheap at all IIRC) I'm a lot more afraid of a good sniper rifle than a crossbow. You can be OS by a sniper (and I mean dead, not on the ground). If I'm shot by a crossbow (when the guy can finally buy it), I heal myself to stop the bleeding (or I'm healed by a teammate) and I go kill the guy at short range after that, where crossbows are less useful. Easy enough. And I don't play against a lot of good players with crossbows, so it's even easier. It can be a pain, sure, but really not more than other players. Like I said, I bought the crossbow and used it a few times. Not good enough compared to my bow and its price. 

The guys with shotguns usually do believe they're in CoD and run to shot us like idiots. They're always the first to die if you're at least a bit aware of what's happening (the guy is running at you? 2 arrows in the chest or 1 in the head and he's dead...). Generic run and gun TPS? lol. The guys playing like that ragequit a lot before the third round when they don't understand why they died twice without seeing what happened and without any support. One of my teammate did exactly this 2 hours ago, the last time I played. He died everytime 1v3 or 1v4, alone 20 meters ahead of us, and ragequit after a few useless deaths like that. Sometimes I feel like the 200-weeks or more players gave their controller to their 12 years old CoD-loving little brother... 

The deadliest and more terrifying players are still the good stealth players, with the bow or other silent weapons (even the knife!), killing your teammates one by one without being seen and without a noise. Even 1v4, you can win with skill and care. The crossbow or the shotgun won't help you do that more than other weapons.

I don't know about the competitive level, but for the public games, you're exaggerating a lot. At least at this level, for the majority of gamers, it's not pay2win, it's more learn2play.

Well then in that case, don't buy any games that have p2w in them. Buy Uncharted for the SP, not the MP. If you're buying Uncharted for the MP, I'd suggest you buy a different game.

Who are we to judge the standard of content or value? 90% of games sell at $60, despite differing dev costs.

Activisions god awful spiderman games are sold equal to mgsv:tpp. Yet mgs is obviously way more expensive to make.
So if konami want to offer addition and optional services on the side that does not impact gameplay, go for it.
If a guy i'm playing with on U3 buys $200 worth of microtransactions, it doesn't affect my gameplay at all. 

I never understand that, what dev has ever evidently cut content from a game and sold it as dlc? It always seems to be a prospect that is said more than done. If the DLC is worked on before release and not included, thats unethical. Otherwise, like everything else you purchase in life, it's still an option (unless of course the dlc is directly tied into the main game storyline and is necessary for the story)

Tlou's dlc was worked on after the game released, and was more about context than content. Ellie running off to find a med kit would otherwise be a pretty useless addition in the main storyline, but how ND turned content into context in such an amazing way was well received and if I may say so, well deserved.
If naughty dog can do something similar for Uncharted, being a story-heavy game, i'm all for it.

Beautiful. People defending just cause it's a studio that makes good games. It's not hard to figure out why this industry has so much absurd practices. People just accept them.