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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Yacht Club is manufacturing and distributing the Shovel Knight amiibo

spemanig said:
DerNebel said:

"Now, this confirms that Nintendo has nothing to do with the content locked in the Shovel Knight amiibo"

Keep telling yourself that, Nintendo knew exactly what kind of content the Amiibo was going to lock out. It's completely naive to think that there wouldn't be an approval process for the content, Nintendo is putting their name on this after all (when people see Amiibo, they think made by Nintendo).


I don't think that's how it's meant to be read. It's just saying that the content in the Shovel Knight amiibo is likely independant of first party content in third party games or third party content in first party games.

In other words, this is not a Smash amiibo. Yet.

This wasn't in the article, the OP wrote that himself. I'm pretty sure my interpretation is right here, considering what he wrote in the other thread on this topic. ;)



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the_dengle said:

If you think something is overpriced, you don't buy it. Simple as that. This rule of thumb will serve you well in every financial decision you make in your entire life. Shovel Knight was released over a year ago and has tons of content on the way at no extra cost. They are free to implement a feature they never promised in the first place and sell it for whatever price they choose, if you don't want to pay $X for it then don't.

Supply issues would be problematic but it's a bit presumptuous to complain about them this early. Past amiibo supply problems don't even apply since this is the first one being made and distributed by someone other than Nintendo.


I don't buy that. If you think something is overpriced, it doesn't mean you don't want it. It means you don't agree with the price. That's the issue. There's an unfair price barrier for desirable content that won't go away by simply choosing, as an individual, not to buy it. I think he has every right to complain about it.

Like I say about all amiibo-locked content, there should be a cheaper version just for people who only care about the content and don't want the $12 figurine paywall. Even a $2 Amiibo card would be acceptable. But as it is now, the Amiibo paywall is a legitimate issue that doesn't go away simply by "not buying it."



DerNebel said:

This wasn't in the article, the OP wrote that himself. I'm pretty sure my interpretation is right here, considering what he wrote in the other thread on this topic. ;)

 


Ohhh, gotcha. Carry on.



Scalpers incoming.



 

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spemanig said:

I don't buy that. If you think something is overpriced, it doesn't mean you don't want it. It means you don't agree with the price. That's the issue. There's an unfair price barrier for desirable content that won't go away by simply choosing, as an individual, not to buy it. I think he has every right to complain about it.

Like I say about all amiibo-locked content, there should be a cheaper version just for people who only care about the content and don't want the $12 figurine paywall. Even a $2 Amiibo card would be acceptable. But as it is now, the Amiibo paywall is a legitimate issue that doesn't go away simply by "not buying it."

I've said as much in the past, we've agreed on all of those points. This is a different case to me because the content wasn't made before release. Just as there is a big difference between paid disc-locked content and, for instance, Mario Kart 8's DLC, there is a big difference between this Shovel Knight amiibo implementation and something like Yoshi's Woolly World, Mario Party 10, Splatoon, and so on. That's how I feel, anyway. The game was worth its asking price at launch and it hasn't lost value just because they plan on adding some expensive DLC.

Regular people make decisions about what price they are willing to pay for what they want every day. It's part of being a financially responsible adult. Obviously people can and will complain about anything if it suits them, but wanting something doesn't entitle you to buy it for whatever price floats your boat. I want the Splatoon amiibo content. I don't want to pay $35 for it. Therefore I don't buy it and go on enjoying the base game. I'd buy it if it was available for a significantly lower price, and I think it should be. But time is money, and if I wasted a bunch of time whining about that 'lost' content I'd start to feel like I would have been better off just buying it. How much stress am I willing to put on myself over the cost of a couple of cheeseburgers? None. Fuck that. I either want something enough to pay the asking price or I don't.

Yacht Club used up the last of their Kickstarter funds a year and a half ago, months before the game was even released. They also have an obligation to continue working on it to deliver all of the promised content, none of which will be monetized. They need income to fund that development. Hence the ports, the merch, the amiibo.



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the_dengle said:

I've said as much in the past, we've agreed on all of those points. This is a different case to me because the content wasn't made before release. Just as there is a big difference between paid disc-locked content and, for instance, Mario Kart 8's DLC, there is a big difference between this Shovel Knight amiibo implementation and something like Yoshi's Woolly World, Mario Party 10, Splatoon, and so on. That's how I feel, anyway. The game was worth its asking price at launch and it hasn't lost value just because they plan on adding some expensive DLC.

Regular people make decisions about what price they are willing to pay for what they want every day. It's part of being a financially responsible adult. Obviously people can and will complain about anything if it suits them, but wanting something doesn't entitle you to buy it for whatever price floats your boat. I want the Splatoon amiibo content. I don't want to pay $35 for it. Therefore I don't buy it and go on enjoying the base game. I'd buy it if it was available for a significantly lower price, and I think it should be. But time is money, and if I wasted a bunch of time whining about that 'lost' content I'd start to feel like I would have been better off just buying it. How much stress am I willing to put on myself over the cost of a couple of cheeseburgers? None. Fuck that. I either want something enough to pay the asking price or I don't.

Yacht Club used up the last of their Kickstarter funds a year and a half ago, months before the game was even released. They also have an obligation to continue working on it to deliver all of the promised content, none of which will be monetized. They need income to fund that development. Hence the ports, the merch, the amiibo.


Well I don't think the game has lost its value either. But I do think the Amiibo is just rediculous as any other case of Amiibo. I don't think the content should be free with the game, I just don't think it should be $12 with the game. If someone wants to buy the Amiibo for $12, that's fine. As far as I see it, $12 is plenty fair for an Amiibo toy. $12 isn't fair for a few extra modes to a $15 game, which is what that content is to anyone who doesn't want the figurine part of the package.

Like you said, the content should be available at a lower price. Nothing wrong with pointing that out and demanding a change. If Yacht Club and Nintendo had intrest in the benefit of the consumer, they'd sell an equivilant functioning Amiibo card for a fraction of the price so that people only interested in the content side of Amiibo have a cheaper alternative. More people would buy amiibo in that case, not less.



spemanig said:

Well I don't think the game has lost its value either. But I do think the Amiibo is just rediculous as any other case of Amiibo. I don't think the content should be free with the game, I just don't think it should be $12 with the game. If someone wants to buy the Amiibo for $12, that's fine. As far as I see it, $12 is plenty fair for an Amiibo toy. $12 isn't fair for a few extra modes to a $15 game, which is what that content is to anyone who doesn't want the figurine part of the package.

Like you said, the content should be available at a lower price. Nothing wrong with pointing that out and demanding a change. If Yacht Club and Nintendo had intrest in the benefit of the consumer, they'd sell an equivilant functioning Amiibo card for a fraction of the price so that people only interested in the content side of Amiibo have a cheaper alternative. More people would buy amiibo in that case, not less.

Their interest is obviously in maximizing $ = cost of product times number of people who buy it. Sell 100,000 amiibo cards for $2, make $200,000. Sell 30,000 amiibo for $12...

If their only interest was the benefit of the consumer, the content would be free. They spent money to make this content, they want to make money by selling it. We aren't in a position to "demand" anything. A demand requires authority. You may request a cheaper alternative.

I have to reiterate that the game was good before this announcement and it has not become worse because of it. This content doesn't have to exist at all. Last week you couldn't play co-op at all. Now you can if you buy the amiibo. If that's worth the price of an amiibo to you, buy it. If it's not, don't. If this game didn't sound appealing to somebody until co-op was announced, they have to ask themselves how much they are willing to pay for it. Is the complete game worth ~$30?

I dunno. I think it should be cheaper. You think it should be cheaper. What does it matter? How much cheaper should it be, and why should we be the ones who decide? Yacht Club made the game, I already bought it. The free market will decide whether or not the price is right, as is usually the case.



the_dengle said:

Their interest is obviously in maximizing $ = cost of product times number of people who buy it. Sell 100,000 amiibo cards for $2, make $200,000. Sell 30,000 amiibo for $12...

If their only interest was the benefit of the consumer, the content would be free. They spent money to make this content, they want to make money by selling it. We aren't in a position to "demand" anything. A demand requires authority. You may request a cheaper alternative.

I have to reiterate that the game was good before this announcement and it has not become worse because of it. This content doesn't have to exist at all. Last week you couldn't play co-op at all. Now you can if you buy the amiibo. If that's worth the price of an amiibo to you, buy it. If it's not, don't. If this game didn't sound appealing to somebody until co-op was announced, they have to ask themselves how much they are willing to pay for it. Is the complete game worth ~$30?

I dunno. I think it should be cheaper. You think it should be cheaper. What does it matter? How much cheaper should it be, and why should we be the ones who decide? Yacht Club made the game, I already bought it. The free market will decide whether or not the price is right, as is usually the case.


There wouldn't be a trade off. Amiibo cards wouldn't cannibalize Amiibo toys because the people buying Abiimo toys want the toy. They'd sell more Amiibo if they did both than if they only sold the toys. 99% of people who buy Amiibo now aren't buying it for only the content. They are either buying it for just the figure or for both. That means there is a large untapped market of people who want the content, and don't want to spend the 100s of dollars it would cost to have all of it, which cheap Amiibo cards would cater to. It would also cater to people who already bought a lot of Amiibo, want the content from a specific Amiibo, but can't afford to buy more. Instead of never buying that Amiibo and losing the sale, they'd buy the figure and retain something.

We absolutely are in a position to demand. The consumer is the authority. Of course the content wouldn't be free. I never said their only intrest should be the consumer, but in business, you're meant to reach an equilibrium where the consumer and the company have the best possible outcome, and the current way Amiibo are handled is not that equilibrium. Amiibo can make more while the consumer can pay less. 

The game being good without the content makes absolutely no difference. The game is better with it, that's all that matters, and it's bullshit that the only way to have that is by paying $12 for a toy.

Just because someone has the right to do something doesn't make it okay or good business to do so. Nintendo has every right to fail with the Wii U. Ubisoft has every right to release AssCreed Unity broken at launch. 



spemanig said:

There wouldn't be a trade off. Amiibo cards wouldn't cannibalize Amiibo toys because the people buying Abiimo toys want the toy. They'd sell more Amiibo if they did both than if they only sold the toys. 99% of people who buy Amiibo now aren't buying it for only the content. They are either buying it for just the figure or for both. That means there is a large untapped market of people who want the content, and don't want to spend the 100s of dollars it would cost to have all of it, which cheap Amiibo cards would cater to. It would also cater to people who already bought a lot of Amiibo, want the content from a specific Amiibo, but can't afford to buy more. Instead of never buying that Amiibo and losing the sale, they'd buy the figure and retain something.

We absolutely are in a position to demand. The consumer is the authority. Of course the content wouldn't be free. I never said their only intrest should be the consumer, but in business, you're meant to reach an equilibrium where the consumer and the company have the best possible outcome, and the current way Amiibo are handled is not that equilibrium. Amiibo can make more while the consumer can pay less. 

The game being good without the content makes absolutely no difference. The game is better with it, that's all that matters, and it's bullshit that the only way to have that is by paying $12 for a toy.

Just because someone has the right to do something doesn't make it okay or good business to do so. Nintendo has every right to fail with the Wii U. Ubisoft has every right to release AssCreed Unity broken at launch. 

I think threads like these are proof enough that some people will buy the amiibo for the content. If Nintendo or Yacht Club thought they would make more money selling the content separately, they wouldn't need coercing.

You have no authority. If they are making money in the free market then your "demands" fall on deaf ears. Case in point: you demanding this, right now, and them not yielding to your demands, nor making any note of them, nor in all likelihood hearing them at all.

Ubisoft will make billions of dollars releasing their broken game so I'm not sure what your point is. In fact I think you've supported my point.

The game is also better with the Battletoads boss level, and it's absolute bullshit that the only way to have that is by paying $400 for an Xbox One, right? The content is tied to the amiibo.



the_dengle said:

I think threads like these are proof enough that some people will buy the amiibo for the content. If Nintendo or Yacht Club thought they would make more money selling the content separately, they wouldn't need coercing.

You have no authority. If they are making money in the free market then your "demands" fall on deaf ears. Case in point: you demanding this, right now, and them not yielding to your demands, nor making any note of them, nor in all likelihood hearing them at all.

Ubisoft will make billions of dollars releasing their broken game so I'm not sure what your point is. In fact I think you've supported my point.

The game is also better with the Battletoads boss level, and it's absolute bullshit that the only way to have that is by paying $400 for an Xbox One, right? The content is tied to the amiibo.


Amiibo have been out for less than a year. I have little doubt that Nintendo will see the missed potencial of a cheaper alternative, and I'm 100% sure they've seen the countless articles about how much of a paywall they are. I'm sure we will see that alternative in the next few years, and it will be exacly because people like me complained. I never said that no one buys Amiibo for the content. I said most don't, because most don't.

I'm also 100% sure that the next AssCreed won't be a broken mess, just like the next Battlefield wasn't a broken mess, because puslishers don't make a ton of money on releasing broken games. Unity lost Ubisoft millions. Battlefield lost EA millions. MCC lost Microsoft a shit ton of money. Releasing broken games is absolutely not an intelligent financial decision. So yes, I have the ultimate and utmost authority as a consumer, and so do you.

Let's not mix exclusive first party content with Abiibo content. It's not the same thing at all.